Speculators, Sprints and Telling Others What to Do

[Pinetreebbs]

I see a lot of posts about speculators buying sprint run knives and selling them for a profit. Honestly, I don't think that many are being bought for resale. Think about it, lets say there is a sprint run of 600 knives, they all sell out. You might see twenty, thirty, even fifty, sold on eBay. That is not even 10% of the sprint run. They might go for more than MSRP, but that is what those twenty to fifty folks are willing to pay. That said, what about the other 550 other knives sold by dealers and SFO? They are sold, probably, mostly by most dealers below the MSRP. So at least 90% percent of the sprint run is sold at or below the MSRP. What is wrong with that?

Now when the buyers bid up the price it is sensational. It makes me ask why they would be willing to spend so much for a particular knife. It doesn't make me think they should not be able to spend that kind of money. Nor do I think it was wrong for the seller to sell the knife. They bought it and they can sell it as they please, just like the buyers can buy it or not.

There are dealers that sell below, at or above the MSRP. Local brick and mortar stores, Internet sellers, even eBay "buy it now" sellers. It is their prerogative to do so and if we want the knife they have we will pay their price.

The marketplace will set the price, charge too much, no one buys, too low and you are out of business when you can't cover your costs and pay for your inventory.

A while back some people were paying more than $300 for the Blue Sprint run Manix. One recently listed on eBay got no bids at $225. :eek: Eventually things even out.

What about a family selling off the collection of a relative, should they be forced to sell rare examples for a discount or market value?

If you trade a knife should the trade value be based on the rarity and condition of the knife or the original MSRP?

Sentimental value aside, anything we own is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for the item.

People on this forum and others are gracious enough to tell anyone interested how to go about buying Spyderco sprint runs. A big Thank You to all of them. I had to work a little and spend some money, but it was well worth the effort.

A huge Thank You to the dealers that put out dealer only variations and pre-orders. My hat is off to them for taking the time, trouble and money to do them. I know they take a beating when someone misses out, changes their mind or agrees to buy a knife and never follows through. They also put up with a constant stream of, "Is my knife ready yet?" calls and emails. All that admistriva take up their time and time is money.

Finally, a huge Thank You to Spyderco for the opportunity to own what I consider the best knife, from the best materials. I back up that opinion by, looking over my shoulder for my wife, buying as many Spydercos as I can. :cool:

[JNewell]

Amen. It shows up a lot less here, but in other places there are a lot of angry posts, a lot of posts that seem to assume that an economy run by Joe Stalin would be preferable, and a lot of posts telling the Glessers how to run their company. We are lucky to have so much choice, for reasonable prices, and to have people like Sal and Eric Glesser, Chris Reeve and a few others running these companies. (Where's that thumbs-up graphic?) :)

[Pinetreebbs]

Amen. It shows up a lot less here, but in other places there are a lot of angry posts, a lot of posts that seem to assume that an economy run by Joe Stalin would be preferable, and a lot of posts telling the Glessers how to run their company. We are lucky to have so much choice, for reasonable prices, and to have people like Sal and Eric Glesser, Chris Reeve and a few others running these companies. (Where's that thumbs-up graphic?) :)

Thank you too, oh and I fixed the missing thumbs up icon. :o

[JCP1969]

I agree with 99.999 of what you said , however sometimes if you look at the glass half full you will notice the crack in it.
I commend Sal and his team on being at the top of their game.
As far as people telling Sal how to run his business, I totally agree with you,unless he has asked for input and then I don't think they are telling him but suggesting.
Dealers and my sympathy :rolleyes: . I think some do their best and others at times could care less. I don't know of a situation where a dealer lost there shirt on a preorder but I am new here and to spyderco knives.
I agree I appreciate those that do exclusives and do it for a profit. That is the name of the game. If you didn't have any risk in it then everyone would do it. I would like to know where all these knives that didn't sell ended up. Sprint or otherwise.
msrp = a lot less sales and to be honest I don't think spyderco would exist in its current state.
honestly it might turnout knife collecting isn't for me. I am use to saving and buying what I want when I want it and up until knives I have never had to stand in line accept for a few minutes.
This is all my opinion and not meant as an insult to anyone.

[pmbspyder]

Cliffnotes version: Appreciation for Glesser's and most dealers, don't change anything.

[.357 mag]

I'm not a collector so you will not likely see me buy a sprint run knife because they are higher in price. I'm not a steel junkie (yet) so higher end steels don't apeal to me. I only reason I bought my ZDP delica is because the saber grind models were marked down past the VG-10 delicas.

I think sprint run are a waste, but that is my opinion. There is stuff I buy people would think I'm crazy buying and that is there opinion. I'm fine with that. I love my spyderco's and I don't think I will buy any other production brand knife again.

[neuron]

Excellent post, OP. I agree completely with what you said.

[RedRunner]

Excellent post, OP. I agree completely with what you said.

Ditto!

And. I respect the poster before that only buys production. he's probably the smartest of all. The production knives are awesome and there steel is top notch. And in some regards better for a true user. Spyderco is really an amazing company producing great knives at an affordable price for the common person.

[The Deacon]

Does pay to remember that the thread I'm guessing is most responsible for this one being started was itself a result of a thread on another forum where Sal asked for suggestions on ways to improve the Sprint Run delivery system. So, for me anyway, it's not about "telling Spyderco what to do" but rather about offering suggestions as requested by them.

As for the other, most hobbies and businesses attract two kinds of people, those who love and enjoy what they're doing and those who are in it strictly for a buck. Rightly or wrongly, the former tend to hold the later in contempt to some degree. So it is here with speculators.

[Pinetreebbs]

Does pay to remember that the thread I'm guessing is most responsible for this one being started was itself a result of a thread on another forum where Sal asked for suggestions on ways to improve the Sprint Run delivery system. So, for me anyway, it's not about "telling Spyderco what to do" but rather about offering suggestions as requested by them.

As for the other, most hobbies and businesses attract two kinds of people, those who love and enjoy what they're doing and those who are in it strictly for a buck. Rightly or wrongly, the former tend to hold the later in contempt to some degree. So it is here with speculators.

True, and I am not trying to say things cannot be improved, just pointing what is working well. Those that are unsatisfied tend to be heard from more than those that are quite happy. By looking at all sides of an issue there will be better understanding.

I see minor divide between the Users and the Collectors. It seems that members of both camps have a problem with some one speculating or making a dollar. They seem especially annoyed if it happens to be a knife they desire.

[araneae]

True, and I am not trying to say things cannot be improved, just pointing what is working well. Those that are unsatisfied tend to be heard from more than those that are quite happy. By looking at all sides of an issue there will be better understanding.

I see minor divide between the Users and the Collectors. It seems that members of both camps have a problem with some one speculating or making a dollar. They seem especially annoyed if it happens to be a knife they desire.

If the status quo was working that well, there wouldn't be enough people raising concerns that Sal is looking to improve the system. I think they can do better. No one is trying to tell others what to do, just offering our thoughts.

[dbcad]

Then again there are quite few folks like myself that are in the middle to varying degrees. I own about 20 :spyder: knives now (FB and folder) and use all but about 3 on a frequent or less frequent basis. For new and interesting steels I'm looking for the Mules to affordably satisfy my curiosity and interest. The finished sprint runs of such steels are usually well beyond my price range.

If folks have the means and desire to plan and obtain these special editions called sprints, more power to them.

I do have a Lum Chinese foliage green, Balance CF, and Walker CF, sprint runs. All are appreciated and none will be sold for profit. I appreciate them and 2 out of the 3 are carried and used pretty frequently nowadays.

I consider myself fortunate and loyal to the production company that executed and offered these designs :) I can't see a way to make the model "better". Spyderco still offers most what they want and need at an affordable price.

Spyderco and Sal are always looking to improve and to their credit look to their base. To make more exotic and high tech steels available and more affordable it would be through blanks.

[Praxis]

As for the other, most hobbies and businesses attract two kinds of people, those who love and enjoy what they're doing and those who are in it strictly for a buck. Rightly or wrongly, the former tend to hold the later in contempt to some degree. So it is here with speculators.

Deacon, I do find the contempt for "speculators" rather telling, since they provide the ideal faceless bogieman for people to rail against when they can't get what they want (knives, cheap gas, etc.). I think it must be related in some way to the phenomenon of music fans ranting against certain bands/musicians for "selling out" and monetizing something that is "supposed" to be for personal enjoyment. Just my two cents. :D

[smikesmith3]

It doesn't matter what something costs, it's what it's worth to a person. If you want to pay more than most people than you must really want the item and it is worth it to you to pay that higher dollar amount. No one forced anyone to purchase a knife at a higher dollar amount than normal.

Yes sometimes it sucks to pay that higher price, but you get the item you want. If you can't afford it, don't buy it.

[The Deacon]

Deacon, I do find the contempt for "speculators" rather telling, since they provide the ideal faceless bogieman for people to rail against when they can't get what they want (knives, cheap gas, etc.). I think it must be related in some way to the phenomenon of music fans ranting against certain bands/musicians for "selling out" and monetizing something that is "supposed" to be for personal enjoyment. Just my two cents. :D

Am sure you're right. I'd also imagine there's also a bit of carryover from situations where speculators, market manipulators, and "in it just for a buck" types can and do cause actual harm. I was working for a company manufacturing film for the graphic arts industry back when the Hunt brothers cause the price of silver to rise from $5 an ounce to over $30 by cornering the market. It had devastating results on my employer and others in that industry. In a totally different direction, puppy mills would be another example of those who cause a lot of grief in their uncaring pursuit of $$$$.

[gunnut35]

I wont buy a knife that i wont use and only resale a knife if i dont like it. I try to mind my own business and could care less about someone eles personal business. I dont get my feelings hurt if i cant find a knife that is "rare", because the hunt is all part of the fun. A product is only worth what the person is willing to pay for it, so i guess its the buyers not the sellers that inflate the prices. :)

[JCP1969]

Am sure you're right. I'd also imagine there's also a bit of carryover from situations where speculators, market manipulators, and "in it just for a buck" types can and do cause actual harm. I was working for a company manufacturing film for the graphic arts industry back when the Hunt brothers cause the price of silver to rise from $5 an ounce to over $30 by cornering the market. It had devastating results on my employer and others in that industry. In a totally different direction, puppy mills would be another example of those who cause a lot of grief in their uncaring pursuit of $$$$.

agree with Deacon,
I would add also that a lot are not faceless speculators. I don't have a problem with buying a knife or 2 based on speculating . Its a big part of spydercos customer base. Its also what helps bring innovation and diversity. So does demand from the average user. I honestly have no gripes with Spydercos business practices. I have no gripes with those that by a couple knives in limited supply. I say just consider your 3rd as the one that would have made someone else happy for years and your profit made you happy only momentarily. I won't part with a knife I have 1 of but if I have 2 I can easily persuaded

[Praxis]

I'd also imagine there's also a bit of carryover from situations where speculators, market manipulators, and "in it just for a buck" types can and do cause actual harm.

That is a very good point. I'm a historian by trade so I guess I find this topic interesting because I see lots of parallels in the past. In the 19th century, people hated land speculators because they drove up the price of farmland to make a quick buck. Later, they hated financial speculators for manipulating markets as you mentioned. Speculation definitely does cause real harm in some situations, but I think the bigger issue is that it violates our sense of community. German academics called this the difference between Gemeinschaft and Gesellschaft (the community and the self-interested individual).

JCP1969, I guess the point I was trying to make is that we throw out labels like "speculator" or "flipper" to vilify an entire group, when the reality is that very few people are buying and selling Spydercos purely for profit. As you say, most are buying a couple and then deciding to sell one and use the profits (if any) for more Spyderco purchases. I know I have done that once or twice. :D

[chuck_roxas45]

Nvm.

[JNewell]

I guess if I had to choose between a society where people can be speculators and make a buck and a society where someone prevents people from speculating to make a buck, I'd choose the former.