hows the edge retention on your delica?

[mrsonofagun45]

whats up guys and gals?my wife recently bought me a delica(saber grind) and the sage 2.i love em both but i'm a little disapointed with the vg-10.after cutting some thin plastic and some masking tape it begins to feel like a butter knife.i can give it a good sharp edge again,but it becomes dull quickly.i use a lansky knife sharpening kit at 25 degree angles.am i being too picky?or am i not sharpening it correctly?thanks.

[GTP2K1]

So 25 degrees is either inclusive (12.5 per side) and possibly too thin, rolling or flattening quickly. Or not inclusive meaning 50 degrees total and almost an axe grind, possibly with a wire edge that wears off quickly?

Im far from the expert though just the first two scenarios that come to mind.

[unit]

I generally find Pretty good edge holding with VG-10 and I have been known to run this steel at 20 degrees inclusive. However this steel will tend to roll if you contact hard surfaces and then it will feel quite dull. Some other steels have different failure modes such as chipping.

There could be other problems. VG-10 will develop a burr quite easily when sharpening. This burr will seem very sharp but it is poorly supported (commonly called a wire edge). If you do not remove this burr during your sharpening process, the results will be a very sharp edge that will perhaps last only one or two cuts afterwhich the burr collapses and you have a dull edge.

Hard to say without seeing it but you might read up on this concept and review your methods...perhaps it may explain your observations.

VG-10 is fantastic stuff. When properly sharpened it will perform MANY cuts before it feels like a butter knife. I cut up a lot of tires with VG-10.

[Paradiggum]

I've carried a Delica of one sort or another for over 12 yrs. The last year I've carried a D4 saber ground and it holds an edge just fine. But as was already said, you have to make sure the "sharp" feeling your getting isn't just the wire edge.

[ReGZ_93]

It might not be the same comparison, but I neglected my saber ground serrated Delica for like 2 years. When I did sharpen it up, it came back nicely.

I think your using too obtuse an angle on the lansky. Try sharpening on the 17 or 12.5 setting. I think you'll have better results.

[chuck_roxas45]

I love the VG-10 on my saber and FFG endura, also on the superleaf and superhawk. I find that it holds an fine edge better than S30V although in the long run S30V holds that "working edge" better than VG-10.

If I don't do a lot of cutting VG-10 is quite adequate.

[jackknifeh]

whats up guys and gals?my wife recently bought me a delica(saber grind) and the sage 2.i love em both but i'm a little disapointed with the vg-10.after cutting some thin plastic and some masking tape it begins to feel like a butter knife.i can give it a good sharp edge again,but it becomes dull quickly.i use a lansky knife sharpening kit at 25 degree angles.am i being too picky?or am i not sharpening it correctly?thanks.

Edge retention on new knives that become old knives. I’ve read on a few occasions how the edge retention gets better with time or how much you use a knife actually. I always just ignored this issue more or less because I couldn’t imagine how a knife blade could get harder with use especially after what it has been through during the manufacturing process including heat treatment. Now that I have exceed the 5 year timeframe of owning better knives and knowing the type of steel of each blade, edge angle, paying attention to what I’m cutting with each knife, etc. I have come to the belief that my knives are staying sharp longer than they did when they were brand new. I mean better edge retention. I can’t swear to whether this is fact or my imagination. If this is true it may also be due to the fact that since I’m paying more for the knives I buy now than I ever did all my life I may just be taking better care of them during use. I have no idea but would love to hear what others think about this. Maybe your Delica’s edge retention will get better with time and use.

Oh yeah, if your angle of 25 degrees is "per side" that's a little high (50 degrees inclusive). If it is 25 degrees inclusive that should be fine. Some consider that a little thin for EDC use and I'm one of them. I like Spyderco's standard angles of 30 degrees back bevel and 40 degree edge bevel (inclusive) for most EDC knives.

Jack

[Evil D]

My old VG10 Delica was pretty decent. When i first bought it, i took it fishing and whittled down a pile of sticks big enough to fill a grocery bag with and even though it had lost the hair shaving edge it was still plenty sharp enough to keep whittling without a ton of effort and it would still cut notebook paper. That was with the factory edge, so 30ish inclusive.

[Neomik]

I made the experience that after sharpening my VG-10 knifes a few "stroppes" on leather make the edges hold longer. (I refer to what "The Unit" wrote about the micro burr that develops) and if you stroppe it it gets stronger at least in my experience.

[The Mentaculous]

I agree with Unit, you probably have a burr on your edge--that can make a sharp edge disappear in one cut. Also, having used the lansky in the past, I can say not only is it easy to leave a burr, but the grits provided do not really have a fine enough one to finish and polish the edge. I'd recommend either getting a Sharpmaker, or a strop and some compound, or both. You'll really be surprised how much polishing you edge not only improves the sharpness, but also the ability to maintain its shape. Think about it this way--the easier to is to cut with, the less force, and therefore, the less force on the edge and so less deformation. Plus, with a rough edge, it's like a "microscopic saw", whereas a polish edge is more uniform and straight. All those little "teeth" bend over or break a lot easier than a uniform edge, and so that's another reason why a polished edge works better. Plus, the stropping/polishing process will help you eliminate any burr that is left.

BTW, with my Delica, I can make several cuts through cardboard, and it's still shaving sharp, or at very least paper-cutting sharp.

[unit]

Edge retention on new knives that become old knives. I’ve read on a few occasions how the edge retention gets better with time or how much you use a knife actually. I always just ignored this issue more or less because I couldn’t imagine how a knife blade could get harder with use especially after what it has been through during the manufacturing process including heat treatment. Now that I have exceed the 5 year timeframe of owning better knives and knowing the type of steel of each blade, edge angle, paying attention to what I’m cutting with each knife, etc. I have come to the belief that my knives are staying sharp longer than they did when they were brand new. I mean better edge retention. I can’t swear to whether this is fact or my imagination. If this is true it may also be due to the fact that since I’m paying more for the knives I buy now than I ever did all my life I may just be taking better care of them during use. I have no idea but would love to hear what others think about this. Maybe your Delica’s edge retention will get better with time and use.

I have a few friends that I sharpen for...and they have become more in tune with knife quality and have begun to purchase "nice" knives instead of dime-store knives. They would say the same thing you are spelling out, but I would suggest that this is due to the user and not any changes in the knife.

These guys (prior to understanding a few things about cutting and steel limitations) would go around cutting anything (I mean ANYTHING) and they would cut it with a steel vice or a concrete floor as a back stop. When I suggested that this was the reason that their edges did not last and they adopted new practices (and quit trying to cut lead and zinc weights with their EDC knives), their edges started lasting MUCH longer.

You may have something with your observations, but I would bet that it has more to do with subtle learning that a user gets through trial and tribulation.

I could be wrong....

[jackknifeh]

I have a few friends that I sharpen for...and they have become more in tune with knife quality and have begun to purchase "nice" knives instead of dime-store knives. They would say the same thing you are spelling out, but I would suggest that this is due to the user and not any changes in the knife.

These guys (prior to understanding a few things about cutting and steel limitations) would go around cutting anything (I mean ANYTHING) and they would cut it with a steel vice or a concrete floor as a back stop. When I suggested that this was the reason that their edges did not last and they adopted new practices (and quit trying to cut lead and zinc weights with their EDC knives), their edges started lasting MUCH longer.

You may have something with your observations, but I would bet that it has more to do with subtle learning that a user gets through trial and tribulation.

I could be wrong....

I'm sure you are right. I'm sure that I take better care of the knives I have now than the other ones I've owned.

Jack

[marknett]

I get good edge retention on my delica 4 vg-10 . I stay at 30° conclusive (15 per side) and for my use it holds up well . MY stretch 2 zdp-189 holds an edge longer but vg-10 is probably in my opinion the best all around , user friendly general use steel that I've used. It's easier to sharpen and super easy to do quick touch-ups .

[marknett]

Also if you are using the lansky setup I recommend getting the sapphire stone ( 2000 grit ) they offer . It will help immensely with removing the wire burr ( false edge ) . When you get the true edge sharp you will see a very noticeable improvement in edge retention

[mrsonofagun45]

wow!thanks for all the advise.it sounds like a case of wire edge.i'm gonna buy a new kit that alow for different angles.

[Evil D]

I don't have the sapphire stone yet but i have the yellow 1000 grit for my Lansky and it does a pretty good job honing out any leftover burr. What i would suggest is that you try to get any stones that fill the gap between your finest stone before the 1000+ grit stones. My finest is a 600 grit, and i feel that it's too much of a jump from the 600 to the 1000...the 1000 just won't take out the 600 scratches especially in harder steels like ZDP.

[mongatu]

1k not taking out 600 grit scratches effectively is a bit surprising to me. I usually jump from 500 to 1200 to 5k (or sometimes even 6k) and then 10k w/no problems at all removing prior scratches.

But I'm using waterstones (freehand) which I guess is a whole different thing. :) I find they generally cut much faster than ceramics so I guess it makes sense that they would take out scratches from the prior stone more easily, allowing for bigger jumps.

[Evil D]

It will shine it up real nice but there are always a lot of scratches left. I guess there's a chance they could be from previous grits that i didn't work out, but i feel like i'm wasting too much steel trying to get out all those scratches.

[jackknifeh]

I don't have the sapphire stone yet but i have the yellow 1000 grit for my Lansky and it does a pretty good job honing out any leftover burr. What i would suggest is that you try to get any stones that fill the gap between your finest stone before the 1000+ grit stones. My finest is a 600 grit, and i feel that it's too much of a jump from the 600 to the 1000...the 1000 just won't take out the 600 scratches especially in harder steels like ZDP.

I use water stones and my finest grit stones are 600, then 1000. When trying to get a mirror finish I do get a mirror edge but there are always scratches that are far enough away from each other that I can read print on paper in the reflection of the edge. I can even use a magnifying glass and see a perfect reflection of the ceiling fan in the edge. The scratches are deep enough to be put there even by the coarser stones. What I mean to say is I get as good a mirror finish with the 600 as I do with the 1000. If I use the 2000 and 3000 grit polish tapes with my sharpener the mirror is clearer. I haven't put enough effort into getting a 100$ mirror edge without stray scratches yet. I was thinking that you are right about the 600 to 1000 jump.

Jack

[unit]

wow!thanks for all the advise.it sounds like a case of wire edge.i'm gonna buy a new kit that alow for different angles.

There is a great chance that you do not need any equipment. There are many ways to dispatch the burr. A block of wood, an old belt, a thick piece of felt....read up and save your cash. In fact the stones you have can be used with a bit of technique. You can pm me if you like.