Black DLC

[ccf]

How durable is the diamond-like carbon coating on the black blades? Does it wear off with use or is it basically on there for good?

I'm considering getting a black Para2 & was wondering what it's like.

[ChrisM]

For normal cutting like cardboard or whatever the finish will get dull with use and a lot of the abrasion you will see is actually material from what has been cut transferring onto the coating. I haven't worn any of my DLC Spydercos to the metal but I rotate them so they don't get used as much as a single everyday carry knife.
I abuse my ZT301 that has a DLC coating at work and the coating has held up great. Rocks, concrete, and tile are the only materials that have scratched it shiney. If you could see what I do with this knife you wouldn't believe how tough the coating is.

[Firebat]

Not all black-bladed Spydies are DLC, fwiw.

That said, DLC holds up very well for most EDC-type or average use chores. Unless you're cutting through cinder blocks, it's hard to damage the finish.

I've used my DLC Manix2 for all kinds of stuff and the finish hasn't faded, streaked, lightened or anything like that. As Chris mentioned, any marks that show up immediately after use are from the material being cut, and a simple wet cloth wipes them away.

Good stuff. Far better than a lot of the blade coatings of years past in terms of durability, that's for sure.

[StangBang]

Let me say this about Spyderco's DLC.

It holds up better than the 5 and 6 hundred dollar knives I have had that utilized various black coatings.

DLC is by far the best coating that I have ever used. My DLC SE Para is one of my hardest working spydies and it still looks great! Just put some tuff glide on it and it shines right back up.

Yet another reason I keep coming back to Spyderco :D

[Jay_Ev]

How durable is the diamond-like carbon coating on the black blades? Does it wear off with use or is it basically on there for good?

I'm considering getting a black Para2 & was wondering what it's like.

There's a black Para2?

[Creepo]

There's a black Para2?

There WILL be a black PM2, 2011 catalog, page 12 in the PDF. :cool:

[ccf]

thanx, guys...much appreciated

[datoudaw]

Not all black-bladed Spydies are DLC, fwiw.

That said, DLC holds up very well for most EDC-type or average use chores. Unless you're cutting through cinder blocks, it's hard to damage the finish.

I've used my DLC Manix2 for all kinds of stuff and the finish hasn't faded, streaked, lightened or anything like that. As Chris mentioned, any marks that show up immediately after use are from the material being cut, and a simple wet cloth wipes them away.

Good stuff. Far better than a lot of the blade coatings of years past in terms of durability, that's for sure.

Why not coat DLC on the edge for edge retention?

[jzmtl]

Because it increase edge thickness and doesn't come to a sharp point so it's no longer as sharp, and the first time you sharpen it's gone.

[datoudaw]

Because it increase edge thickness and doesn't come to a sharp point so it's no longer as sharp, and the first time you sharpen it's gone.

Do you know how thick the DLC costing is? At that thickness do you think it would matter enough of the sharp edge?

If DLC coating makes the edge not as sharp as it should be, then do not coat the edge. However, if coating thickness does not affect the sharpness, then leave it on, so we can have some benefit of the coating. For people using the knife to cut cardboard all day long, do you think the coating on the edge is a great benefit?

[The Deacon]

Why not coat DLC on the edge for edge retention?

Can't recall ever seeing it done that way by any maker. I could be wrong, but I'm inclined to think that if doing it was beneficial, or even just not detrimental in some way, someone would be doing it that way.

[SpydieDelica4]

I think adding it to the edge (edge right, not the bevel?), it would make the edge flat. Only a cleanly sharpened edge will do. And what about the resistence?

[jzmtl]

Do you know how thick the DLC costing is? At that thickness do you think it would matter enough of the sharp edge?

If DLC coating makes the edge not as sharp as it should be, then do not coat the edge. However, if coating thickness does not affect the sharpness, then leave it on, so we can have some benefit of the coating. For people using the knife to cut cardboard all day long, do you think the coating on the edge is a great benefit?

Don't recall how thick, but they are pretty thin.

The main thing is, imagine the actual edge magnified, you have two line intersect at an angle and creating a sharp point, which was created via grinding. However the coating you use cannot maintain that acute point, and will come out somewhat rounded, imagine stick a needle in paint and let it dry.

I'm not an expert thou so I could be wrong, somebody correct me if I am.

[The Mentaculous]

Aside from the fact that it would not come to a fine edge, it also would be impossible to sharpen, and the underlying steel would be inconsequential since it's not even what's being used to cut.

Knifemakers have been experimenting with and improving their materials for decades (even centuries), and it's pretty much been proven that the high-carbon steels that are used today are by far the most functional blade material available. It's better to use that for the functional cutting part of the knife, and use a coating (which is there to impede reflectivity and seal in the steel to prevent corrosion) for the parts that don't need to be exposed/used for the cutting.

From everything I've heard BTW, DLC is an incredibly durable coating. I wouldn't expect any less from Spyderco--they know what's up!

[hunterseeker5]

Nobody has ever really effectively used a super hard coating to improve edge retention, they really just aren't the right material for it. Carbidization is the preferred process for conferring unusual properties to the edge of a knife while retaining a blade of some usable metal. These knives are usually also chisel ground, or at the very least may be sharpened from only one side.

[Evil D]

Even if some kind of coating on the edge helped with edge retention, it would be removed the first time you sharpened it so what's the point? You're better off choosing the right steel if you want edge retention. To me the only purpose black coating has is to subdue the appearance of the blade.

[WireEdge Roger]

Anyone remember the Buck Crosslocks with gold colored BuckCote? They had a single bevel edge and the coating was suppose to increase the edge retention by 5X. They likened it to a beaver tooth, the softer steel would wear away and the hard BuckCote would remain behind.

[Evil D]

Well, the fact you're mentioning it with "do you remember" says to me that it must have been a gimmick

I think before you see a coating that works in this way, you'll see a metal that micro chips away with use to keep a working edge, but i don't think they'll ever make a steel that stays as sharp as you can get it with sharpening.

[datoudaw]

Anyone remember the Buck Crosslocks with gold colored BuckCote? They had a single bevel edge and the coating was suppose to increase the edge retention by 5X. They likened it to a beaver tooth, the softer steel would wear away and the hard BuckCote would remain behind.

"self sharpening" is the idea that might work in what you have mentioned. Thank you for your information. Self sharpening tool has been applied in other industries. ( hammer drill by Bosch)

I will check the Buck Crosslocks and BuckCote. Yes, single bevel edge, or just one sided coating on edge. Super Blue at HRC62 with DLC at HRC 85 make the idea "attractive"? Most DLC is applied at 2 micron. With twice the thicknes, at 4 or 5 micron, and Super Blue or ZDP-189 body, it will be a dream knife. ( Well, need to educate the proper way to sharpen first.)

My own experience matches the 5X you have mentioned. Unfortunately, no consistent experience all the time. Someone will figure how to make it work, I sure hope it is a Spyderso knife.