Ed Schempp Balance, a self defense knife?

[ffbeerd]

I wasn't talking about guns.....

There are those out there that are trained to kill with a blade and they are good enough the person that is attacked will never know they were there or what they did until it's way too late. The person that was attacked will never have a chance to react because the attacker will be standing there watching them die or will be walking away as the life goes out of them.

Ok, but my comment still applies:

"But, generally speaking, most attacks aren't premeditated to the point that a trained killer is trying to assassinate you...it's something that escalates. And in the end, all you can do is train and be as prepared as possible."

[Joe Talmadge]

There are guys in prison who can wreak havoc with just the tip of a razor blade. Yes, any knife can be formidable in a defensive situation, but the smaller and more specialized the knife, the better trained you'd want to be. By reputation, KaliGMan would be formidable with a balance, but IMO, most people should be looking at something bigger, with a sharp in-line point.

Maybe that's another way of saying that there should be a third poll option: good choice for KaliGman, bad choice for me.

[Ankerson]

There are guys in prison who can wreak havoc with just the tip of a razor blade. Yes, any knife can be formidable in a defensive situation, but the smaller and more specialized the knife, the better trained you'd want to be. By reputation, KaliGMan would be formidable with a balance, but IMO, most people should be looking at something bigger, with a sharp in-line point.

Yeah prison is were most of the real world things happen, and in the kitchen with kitchen knives.

The likelihood of getting into a real knife fight out in the world is extremely rare. And one can see the threat coming or a problem soon enough they can remove themselves from the situation before it becomes very bad.

Awareness and using ones brain are the best defenses in the end.

If things don't look good or you get that bad feeling then get the heck out of the area before things happen.

Be aware of what is going on around you.

When in areas that might be a problem stay the heck off the cell phone and pay attention what's going on and don't talk to anyone.

[Donut]

The balance will not protect me from the boogie man. :'(

[Joe Talmadge]

The likelihood of getting into a real knife fight out in the world is extremely rare.

Obviously, but the context of this thread was self defense, not "knife fight". Self defense with a knife is also rare, obviously, but when it does happen, there's no reason to think it will be a knife fight. Most stories of self-defense with a knife, at least that I've read, are against an attacker(s) not similarly armed.

Your other points are good ones, but as with a number your points in this thread, not trying to start anything but I'm honestly a bit confused as to what they have to do with the Balance as a choice of self defense knife.

[Ankerson]

Obviously, but the context of this thread was self defense, not "knife fight". Self defense with a knife is also rare, obviously, but when it does happen, there's no reason to think it will be a knife fight. Most stories of self-defense with a knife, at least that I've read, are against an attacker(s) not similarly armed.

Your other points are good ones, but as with a number your points in this thread, not trying to start anything but I'm honestly a bit confused as to what they have to do with the Balance as a choice of self defense knife.

I was just talking in general terms because anything is better than fingernails. :D

Just trying to keep things real, you know outside the Dojo and what some like people to think.

[Dr. Snubnose]

Not sure you really understand what I was getting at with my post.

I think I understand what you are getting at....If someone is real skilled and wants to be a psychopath they gonna get you good...My point is if you as the intended victim are also skilled, that psychopath is in for a whole lot of trouble....re-read my post for a more complete understanding....Doc :D
In reading your posts:
1)I think you might be watching way to many action flicks
2)Reading too much SD crap on THE WEB, I don't know where, some other forums
3)Parroting the thoughts of other paranoid arm chair warriors
come on now...to use your words "Just trying to keep things real....Doc

[Dr. Snubnose]

The balance will not protect me from the boogie man. :'(

It will if you can keep the Boogie man Off-Balance.... Doc :p

[yowzer]

The balance will not protect me from the boogie man. :'(

When it comes to bogeymen, tossing a blanket over their heads works better than any knife.

[Ankerson]

I think I understand what you are getting at....If someone is real skilled and wants to be a psychopath they gonna get you good...My point is if you as the intended victim are also skilled, that psychopath is in for a whole lot of trouble....re-read my post for a more complete understanding....Doc :D
In reading your posts:
1)I think you might be watching way to many action flicks
2)Reading too much SD crap on THE WEB, I don't know where, some other forums
3)Parroting the thoughts of other paranoid arm chair warriors
come on now...to use your words "Just trying to keep things real....Doc

Hardly.....

[SQSAR]

I have to agree with Ankerson on the point that violent encounters involving a knife are very rare in regards to the general public. And this is even more true when we talk about a ‘knife fight’ instead of an ‘armed assault involving an edged weapon.’

However, I could not agree with Doc more in his line of thought that if one finds themselves in a violent encounter (and true, the assailant will likely use everything at his disposal to maximize his chances of success) then the only way to respond is with absolute commitment and a disproportionate amount of aggression/violence to attempt to overcome the advantage the bad guy has already factored into the equation. In my world, we sometimes refer to this initial response (read counterattack) as “resetting someone’s computer” to change, if only for a moment, that cognitive process that the attacker brings to the conflict. Using a knife, however small (and assuming you can access it) gives you, the presumed good guy, a mechanical advantage with which to overcome the advantage initially enjoyed by the assailant. Even though your initial response to an ambush type attack may be limited to your unarmed resources.

On a larger sense, again drawing from my work world, these types of situations can be broken down to mean ‘risk.’ Risk can be looked at as Threat multiplied by Vulnerability, multiplied by Consequence. (Risk=Threat x Consequence x Vulnerability) As law abiding citizens, we can mitigate our ‘vulnerability’ by not putting ourselves into potentially dangerous situations if at all avoidable. And, we can mitigate a presumed negative ‘consequence’ by training for an unexpected, and unwanted violent encounter. We will never have eyes in the back of our heads to give us that 360 view, but we can condition ourselves to respond to the very limit of our physical and mental abilities.

[Blerv]

I don't know how many people are attacked by box cutters on the street but I hear it's a fairly common improvised weapon. You are also talking about a cutting edge of what, .3 inches?

Based on that I could see the balance to be a good defensive weapon. Definitely on the "defensive" role rather than the "combat" one. People sure don't like to bleed. The average Kerambit has a 1.5-2.5" blade and those work well for some.

Would I like to have a blade larger than 2"? Um....


Note: Something worth considering is you can legitimately palm a Balance, Dragonfly, Lava, etc. That means if walking through a scary parking lot deployment is almost instant (which is the deciding factor in most defensive scenarios).

[Ankerson]

I have to agree with Ankerson on the point that violent encounters involving a knife are very rare in regards to the general public. And this is even more true when we talk about a ‘knife fight’ instead of an ‘armed assault involving an edged weapon.’

However, I could not agree with Doc more in his line of thought that if one finds themselves in a violent encounter (and true, the assailant will likely use everything at his disposal to maximize his chances of success) then the only way to respond is with absolute commitment and a disproportionate amount of aggression/violence to attempt to overcome the advantage the bad guy has already factored into the equation. In my world, we sometimes refer to this initial response (read counterattack) as “resetting someone’s computer” to change, if only for a moment, that cognitive process that the attacker brings to the conflict. Using a knife, however small (and assuming you can access it) gives you, the presumed good guy, a mechanical advantage with which to overcome the advantage initially enjoyed by the assailant. Even though your initial response to an ambush type attack may be limited to your unarmed resources.

On a larger sense, again drawing from my work world, these types of situations can be broken down to mean ‘risk.’ Risk can be looked at as Threat multiplied by Vulnerability, multiplied by Consequence. (Risk=Threat x Consequence x Vulnerability) As law abiding citizens, we can mitigate our ‘vulnerability’ by not putting ourselves into potentially dangerous situations if at all avoidable. And, we can mitigate a presumed negative ‘consequence’ by training for an unexpected, and unwanted violent encounter. We will never have eyes in the back of our heads to give us that 360 view, but we can condition ourselves to respond to the very limit of our physical and mental abilities.

Good points. :)

As long as the MA excepts that not everyone is some Billy Bob drunk, red neck or some crack head that they could be going up against, humbling I know, but true.

Avoidance is always the best defense, spotting problems is very important and could save one from getting killed or worse.

The things in the Movies aren't real and nobody is really THAT good, if they survive an attack it's more to do with luck than how good they are.

Going against an attacker that has a blade is crazy at best.

Those things are best left to the Dojo with practice weapons and not in the real world for real.

One would live longer or stay out of the hospital for sure.

But of forced into a situation there is noway out of then all one can do is their best and hope to survive it.

[224477]

Well, almost any object CAN be used as a weapon if there is a need for it and if one knows how to use it as one.

Even small knives CAN be effective self defense tools, however, I would not choose a that small blade as a primary SD carry blade.

Ed never designed that puppy to be a defensive knife, or?

Guys you cant just state a baliyo is a great defensive weapon, just `cause KaliGman knows hot to use it as one C`mon... :rolleyes:

This is more about the player than about the tool, I bet Jon could use a nail file as an effective weapon, but thats not proving a nail file IS an effective weapon.. I think Jon really knows his bread well, hands down.

[ChrisR]

I think I'd lay money on KaliGman even if he was armed with a toothpick ... but for mere mortals something big and scary is probably going to give them a better edge ... it might even scare an attacker off ... a Balance is hardly likely to do that

[KaliGman]

I wasn't talking about guns.....

There are those out there that are trained to kill with a blade and they are good enough the person that is attacked will never know they were there or what they did until it's way too late. The person that was attacked will never have a chance to react because the attacker will be standing there watching them die or will be walking away as the life goes out of them...



I was just talking in general terms because anything is better than fingernails.

Just trying to keep things real, you know outside the Dojo and what some like people to think.



As long as the MA excepts that not everyone is some Billy Bob drunk, red neck or some crack head that they could be going up against, humbling I know, but true.

Avoidance is always the best defense, spotting problems is very important and could save one from getting killed or worse.

The things in the Movies aren't real and nobody is really THAT good, if they survive an attack it's more to do with luck than how good they are.

Going against an attacker that has a blade is crazy at best.

Those things are best left to the Dojo with practice weapons and not in the real world for real.

Well--you know what they say about opinions :p .

I will have to say that, after over 18 years of law enforcement, surviving several attacks with knives, guns, clubs, and bare hands, having seen several people cut, stabbed or shot, having seen several people die, having arrested both my share of "Billy Bobs", as well as professional boxers, enforcers and killers for various criminal groups, etc., I have to disagree with most of your statements quoted above. Anyone can be blindsided, but a blade is not a nuclear weapon. Absent cutting through the spinal cord, damaging the brain, or other central nervous system disruption, nothing stops a man instantly. Of the bladed weapon assaults I have seen, many have lasted quite awhile, and resulted in defensive action by the victim. As for luck being the primary determinate of the results of an attack, once again, I completely disagree. Of course chance has a role, but the funny thing is, the more I train and the better I get, the easier it has been for me to fight and defeat those who have tried to do me harm. You may think that something I show on a video should be best left in the dojo or training hall. At your level of training and skill, you might very well be correct. As for me, I know what I can and cannot do, because I use my skills quite a bit "on the street" where I currently command a federal task force.

[KaliGman]

There are guys in prison who can wreak havoc with just the tip of a razor blade. Yes, any knife can be formidable in a defensive situation, but the smaller and more specialized the knife, the better trained you'd want to be. By reputation, KaliGMan would be formidable with a balance, but IMO, most people should be looking at something bigger, with a sharp in-line point.

Maybe that's another way of saying that there should be a third poll option: good choice for KaliGman, bad choice for me.

I completely agree on a longer blade with a point inline with the long bones of the forearm when in standard forward or hammer grip. When I did this little video and the associated write up that I placed on my website, I indicated that, to make some of the things I showed on the video work, it was best to have experience in some small blade and empty hand silat methodologies. Also, I mostly see the Balance as a gentleman's folder which could be put into emergency use as a fighter, or a secondary blade for an expert. If you are talking about the Balance as a weapon and use a firearms analogy, I would liken the Balance to a Seecamp .32 ACP pistol. A small, exquisitely constructed device that can be comforting when resting in the pocket for those occasions when other methodologies and weapons fail or are inaccessible, but hardly what one would chose as a primary weapon if one knew he was going to be fighting for his life.

[Dr. Snubnose]

Lets not totally discount a small blade as ineffective....I carry a Ladybug, Subcom, Wharning, in my daily EDC...Sure I carry something larger as well. But you really don't need something larger to be effective if you train....As I said before there is always someone bigger and stronger...But the knife can even the odds. Specially if the stronger bigger opponent never sees it. And that my friends is where a small bladed weapon shines.
The knife is for the blade world's sucker punch. You don't announce it or wave it around, you keep it hidden and out of sight. You give the bigger stronger man the illusion he is that. Whether it is one against you or three. I have always been of the mindset that training is very important and an intrinsic part of the picture if you plan on staying alive in a violent confrontation. Like KaliGman said the more you train the better you get. As far a leaving all the techniques to the dojo because they won't work on the street in your mind, leads me to believe you don't train in one....For me the dojo has always been and always will be the place where you make mistakes...so that you don't make them on the streets....Doc :D

[Ankerson]

Well--you know what they say about opinions :p .

I will have to say that, after over 18 years of law enforcement, surviving several attacks with knives, guns, clubs, and bare hands, having seen several people cut, stabbed or shot, having seen several people die, having arrested both my share of "Billy Bobs", as well as professional boxers, enforcers and killers for various criminal groups, etc., I have to disagree with most of your statements quoted above. Anyone can be blindsided, but a blade is not a nuclear weapon. Absent cutting through the spinal cord, damaging the brain, or other central nervous system disruption, nothing stops a man instantly. Of the bladed weapon assaults I have seen, many have lasted quite awhile, and resulted in defensive action by the victim. As for luck being the primary determinate of the results of an attack, once again, I completely disagree. Of course chance has a role, but the funny thing is, the more I train and the better I get, the easier it has been for me to fight and defeat those who have tried to do me harm. You may think that something I show on a video should be best left in the dojo or training hall. At your level of training and skill, you might very well be correct. As for me, I know what I can and cannot do, because I use my skills quite a bit "on the street" where I currently command a federal task force.

You likely see more than most any NORMAL person would ever see unless they are in a gang, law enforcement or some other agency.

By normal I mean Joe Blow or some MA walking down the street yakking away on his cell phone without a care in the world until something happens and then it's way too late.

Most people don't pay any attention to what is going on around them and couldn't tell you what the people looked like near them if their lives depended on it and they walk around with their heads in the clouds etc most of the time.

You know how easy it is to walk right up behind the ave person without them ever knowing you are there?

I think you do if you have had the training I think you have had. The more people there are around the easier it is depending on the situation, sometimes less or none is better.

Gun, knife, whatever..... It's over and most of the time they will never know what hit them.

The main exception would be a female walking to her car at night, they don't miss crap for the most part, they see and hear everything. There are exceptions to that but you can get what I trying to say here.

[Mr Blonde]

I absolutely think that small blades have a place in the ranks of (improvised) self defense weapons. With my background, I tend to see them as 'let go devices'.