Blade Length Question for Sal & Co

[Blerv]

Dear Spyderco Team,

I am probably in the minority of the customers who buy knives after knowing exactly my local county laws. I don't fudge a millimeter because frankly I like using knives that are not conventional like hawkbills or serrated blades which might be construed as "aggressive" by my local LEO's.

It seems that most counties have, "____ inches and under," wording which typically follows half-inch increments. Occasionally you will see, "ordinary pen-knife," in the states. The most common I have seen are "2 inches and under, "3 inches and under," "3.5 inches and under," "4 inches and under."

My question is: Why the partial steps like 3 and 5/8ths?

I can imagine designing a knife is very difficult, especially one that has to fold within a handle. However, I personally have no desire to buy anything deemed "illegal" and would rather max out a certain county's law so I have various knives to carry depending where I go. I know which knives I can take to Everett and which to Seattle and try to buy a decent selection of various lengths.

As I mentioned, perhaps more paranoid than most, but I have no intent to hire a lawyer to try and clear my record of a weapons charge. It might influence my future goals of working at a liquor store or running for senate. :D

Please note I'm not saying I always want to pack the maximum legal blade on me. I carry a cricket and ladybug constantly and often feel in the Calypso Jr. or Delica mindset when I could carry a Stretch.

I just hate having to put a giant "X" on one of your folding products in the catalog because of civilian responsibility. Especially when that product is damned awesome and unique like a Shabaria or possibly a Massad Ayoob sprint.

A little part of me dies when I see that 1/8th addition listed in the product specs.

[yablanowitz]

I'm not Sal and company, but I am a bit confused. Why does a knife need to be the legal maximum for the area to be carried? Whether it is 3 5/8" or 4 1/8" or 2 1/16", it is going to be illegal in some places and legal in others. If the legal limit is 4" maximum, 3 5/8" is just as legal as 4". If the law says "less than 3", 3 5/8" is no more legal than 3 1/2", or even 3". There are places where even a Bug is illegal and others where the Police 3 is legal. Why would they need to design blades only in half-inch increments?

[chiknives23]

i dont know all i know in my state illinois we cant carry anything over 3 inches but i highly doubt if you are respectful if you ever get pulled over or stopped they would hassle you for 1/4 inch but if you arguing or disrespectful they can hassle you for anything they want my rule is just always be respectful and they wont mess with you and dont go out carrying something that you know is illegal

[chuck_roxas45]

I'm not Sal and company, but I am a bit confused. Why does a knife need to be the legal maximum for the area to be carried? Whether it is 3 5/8" or 4 1/8" or 2 1/16", it is going to be illegal in some places and legal in others. If the legal limit is 4" maximum, 3 5/8" is just as legal as 4". If the law says "less than 3", 3 5/8" is no more legal than 3 1/2", or even 3". There are places where even a Bug is illegal and others where the Police 3 is legal. Why would they need to design blades only in half-inch increments?

Yeh, I think Yab got it right again. When I first read the OP, I was thinking that say 3 and 5/8 would be legal for the 4 and under areas and so on.

[26.2Madness]

The OP is talking about the situation I am in. In California, to carry a knife on school grounds it must be non-locking and 2.5 inches or less. I carry an Urban which is officially 2 5/8 in blade length or 1/8th inch over the legal limit. The OP wants to know why this blade is not 2.5 inches long because this blade length is legal in more places than a 2 5/8 inch blade. To me, the extra 1/8 inch is irrelevant and not a concern of mine. I do recall that Sal once posted that if you are concerned about the extra 1/8, you can send your knife in, and Spyderco would grind the blade down the 1/8th inch.

[Blerv]

No my question was that for a company to add another 1/8" or 1/16" when they could stop at 3.5" or just push it to 3 15/16" doesn't make very much sense if your maximizing sales. Get out a ruler and see how much reach or edc use that would give you. The only time your gonna know it's illegal is if a ruler gets pulled.

Frankly the "well it's not a big deal" argument won't work either because I'm being very objective with the law. Why do speedometers error conservative? Why do you wait one hour per beer to be safe? Because "sorry" works less than a good lawyer.

I'm not trying to be whiny. Look up my other almost 2k fanboy posts =p. It just seems like designing to fall into the most jurisdictions would make sense.

Would you like sell to the white collar workers of Seattle who read the laws by sacrificing a fraction of blade? It's just an honest business question. Same reason why the Chinook's not legal in Colorado for carry even if its built there. Would a 3.5" blade make it less effective for MBC? My brother sold his because he didn't want to be an example a young cops learning curve.

Sorry if that sounds brazen. Perhaps the answer is people who buy knives don't generally care about the law...in which case Spydeco doesn't have to be their parents.

Edit: Colorado has legal "open carry" on blades. Perhaps the Chinook qualifies since the clip and handle show slightly out of pocket? Shrug

[Blerv]

Thanks 26.2Madness, you got me exactly.

Thanks for the other posters. I always respect and appreciate your perspectives. Please don't let the tone seem anything but an inefficient text block :) .

There isn't an answer for everyone and I'm willing to see that. I still love my 1.5-3.5 range of Spydies!

[yablanowitz]

If the Urban's blade was 2.5", it would still be illegal in all those places where the law says it must be less than 2 1/2". If it was 2.4", it would still be illegal in all those places where the law say it must be 2" or less. No matter what the blade length is, there will still be places where it is illegal to carry. Granted, a Military with a 7/8" long blade would be legal to carry in more places than the current length, but somehow I don't think it would sell. Miss out on a given model because it is 1/8" over the legal limit some places? The law where I live says "a regular pocket knife with a blade not exceeding 4 inches may be carried." I like the Police model, but it is over 4". My solution? Buy one with a broken tip, repair by regrinding the tip and presto, 3.98" Police. They could still claim the opening hole and pocket clip mean it is not a "regular pocket knife" if I piss them off enough, but that is a whole different can of worms.

[The Deacon]

I see your point regarding maximizing legality, and have wondered myself on occasions about the "why" behind some of the increments, especially the Native's 3 1/16". Guess the answer is that, unlike us, the general knife buying public does not spend an awful lot of time researching the laws on knife carry, so the actual impact on sales is probably quite minimal.

[ChrisR]

Yeah, I think "under 3-inches" is one of the commonest limits around the world but I am constantly amazed at the number of knives that are just a few mm or 1/8th of an inch over that ... why not make it just under 3-inches and have done with it - or make it 3.5 or 4 inches and aim for the other regions where longer knives are allowed?

When such a small amount has no functional purpose it seems silly to rule out sales in such a large number of places.

[chuck_roxas45]

I see your point regarding maximizing legality, and have wondered myself on occasions about the "why" behind some of the increments, especially the Native's 3 1/16". Guess the answer is that, unlike us, the general knife buying public does not spend an awful lot of time researching the laws on knife carry, so the actual impact on sales is probably quite minimal.

Maybe sales of the "odd" length knives come from areas where the legal length is longer than the "odd" lengths and thus buyers prefer these lengths to be certain of being legal.

[Blerv]

Hey Yab.

I'm just saying that while certain knives are illegal in places why not maximize your appeal?

Look at that link in my sig. A chinook is legal in a very select few places. Dropping it to 3.5" would pick up dozens of counties with millions of people (3.3 mil in Seattle alone!) I'm not saying every knife should be 2.999" because while it would have like 10 times more legal appeal there is reason for a large knife.

I'm just saying if the law works generally on incriments of .5 why does the knife world work with 1/8ths and 1/16ths.

I still buy performance cars and speed a little bit. This eludes logic as well. However if half the counties outlawed cars with over 299 horsepower I'm curious if they would still be built.

Deacon made a good point. Most people don't care and the rest of us pick other models.

[The Deacon]

Maybe sales of the "odd" length knives come from areas where the legal length is longer than the "odd" lengths and thus buyers prefer these lengths to be certain of being legal.

But that would more logically account for lengths a hair under a break point than ones a hair over it. I can faster understand the rationale behind blade lengths like the Delica's 2 7/8" than ones like the Native's or the original ParaMilitary's. 3 7/16" would make perfect sense, 3 1/16, not so much.

[chuck_roxas45]

But that would more logically account for lengths a hair under a break point than ones a hair over it. I can faster understand the rationale behind blade lengths like the Delica's 2 7/8" than ones like the Native's or the original ParaMilitary's. 3 7/16" would make perfect sense, 3 1/16, not so much.

Yeh, now that you mention it, a hair under does make more sense in that scenario.

[racer88]

I am SO glad I live in Florida. No worries about such silly laws. We can carry a "common pocket knife," which is 4 inches or less. And, with a CCW license, I can carry ANY knife including autos. If I could stuff a samurai sword in my pants, I would be legal here. :)

[jackburton9807]

Yeh, now that you mention it, a hair under does make more sense in that scenario.

I'll wager that's where it comes from. If 3.5 is legal, 3 3/8 should get you by just fine. I doubt it would make sense from a marketing standpoint to have a line of knives for each state.

As far as Colorado goes; I'm pretty sure knives in general are illegal for carry, it's just that the C.R.S. does not consider it a knife if it's 3.5 or less. That's why I like my Delicas.

Jeff

[Blerv]

Oh I completely agree with the "hair under" mindset.

I would rather error on 2 7/8ths even if the law is 3" and under. As mentioned even the spread between 2 7/8" and 3 1/8 is a quarter of an inch.

My eye needs about half an inch to notice the difference. Most of which is due to the larger handle than the shiny sharp part. Knives like the Rookie feel more like a Dragonfly than a Delica and it even has a longer blade.

Folders in the 4.5,5,6"+ blade range are simply just BIG in my perspective (not bad, just big). I can't tell the difference between a 5 and 7" blade probably because my jaw is hitting the floor, hehe. That and the folder probably weighs 7+ ounces.

[Fuglee]

I've wondered that myself many times. There's been quite a few knives that I've wanted to pick up, such as the Matriarch, where 1/8th of an inch made it illegal in Seattle.

Other knives, like the Chinook II, I've sold because I realized that it was just barely illegal. In St. Louis, while in a museum, a cop measured my Chinook II. It was under 4 inches so he gave it back to me but it made me very concerned about the laws elsewhere. I used to not care. Years ago I used to conceal a fixed blade in Seattle because I've never been arrested so I felt the danger was slim that I'd get caught. I never was caught but I've realized that I don't need that hassle in my life. Much easier to abide by the rules, especially living downtown where I interact with the police quite often.

My brother, Blerv, sends me new product updates and he always looks so sad when I respond back with, "Illegal." Not that I don't appreciate the knife or really want to buy one, simply that I refuse to buy illegal knives anymore.

3.5 inches is legal in Seattle but illegal in Everett where the limit is 3 inches (I think) which is 20 miles north. My favorite knives have become those that are barely under 3 inches, like the Delica, that I can take almost anywhere with peace of mind.

[Blerv]

.

My brother, Blerv, sends me new product updates and he always looks so sad when I respond back with, "Illegal." Not that I don't appreciate the knife or really want to buy one, simply that I refuse to buy illegal knives anymore.
.

It's true. I almost cried once =).

[arty]

I believe that in Illinois, the law states that 3" and over is a dangerous weapon. This makes the Caly3 over the limit, but the Delica is OK. I took 1mm off of my Rookie.
In Chicago, the blade needs to be under 2 1/2".