Evil D wrote:Well...unfortunately i have to report the same thing...extremely tiny nicks...almost naked to the eye and i have awesome vision up close. I can only really tell they're there when i run the blade down my finger nail and feel it. I haven't started sharpening at a lower bevel yet...this is just with the super low back bevel which is probably around 20 inclusive so i'm not really surprised or upset about it but i am gonna hit it at about 30 inclusive today. I think for what i use it with and with the super low back bevel, it should work out beautifully at 30.
I'm going to be watching the edges on my knives from now on just out of curiosity mainly. I'm 52 years old and not until the last 4 years have I even thought about this stuff. I could always get a knife (inexpensive ones) sharp with a wetstone or two. I just had to sharpen the too often. I have never needed extremely low angle edges and still don't really. My edge angle is going to continue to go up in the future until I get to a point where I don't have chipping problems but still have a great cutting edge. I'm thinking the angle may go as high as 50 deg. inclusive, especially for hard use knives which in my case would involve some sort of carpentry or wiring work. I'll be considering blade grind, steel, type of cutting, etc. It may not improve quality of life much but I think it'll be interesting. I think the information would be useful to younger people with a lifetime of using knives for work, hobby, or whatever.
If you're that hard on your knife you might wanna look into something with a chisel grind..those are pretty stout and people say they're easier to sharpen...i've never really owned them though.
I'll also add, it didn't take much at all to get rid of the chips i had on mine...i just ran over it on each side with my fine stone, not even enough to raise a burr and they smoothed out to where i don't feel any snags on my finger nail. I did raise up to about 28 inclusive.
Oh and i managed to bump it off the edge of my keyboard shelf while typing a post, and it fell all of 3 inches onto my thigh and stabbed me. It stung a little...and kept stinging...and didn't ease up so i checked and sure enough i have an 1/8 inch stab in my thigh and a nice little cut through my jeans.
Evil D wrote:If you're that hard on your knife you might wanna look into something with a chisel grind..those are pretty stout and people say they're easier to sharpen...i've never really owned them though.
I'll also add, it didn't take much at all to get rid of the chips i had on mine...i just ran over it on each side with my fine stone, not even enough to raise a burr and they smoothed out to where i don't feel any snags on my finger nail. I did raise up to about 28 inclusive.
Oh and i managed to bump it off the edge of my keyboard shelf while typing a post, and it fell all of 3 inches onto my thigh and stabbed me. It stung a little...and kept stinging...and didn't ease up so i checked and sure enough i have an 1/8 inch stab in my thigh and a nice little cut through my jeans.
My dings were easy to get out also. Chisel grind blades will turn a little as you slice something like cardboard unless you pay close attention and keep the blade from turning.
As a joke about a month ago my wife bought me some "liquid skin". It came in a pack of two tubes that looked like super glue. Directions said to hold a small cut closed and place drop(s) on the cut. It wasn't long before I nicked myself and tried it. It really worked. I had to use it again on a larger cut and it worked again. This stuff is great. Put a bandaid on after a minute to reduce pain if you bump it and you're good to go. There is a picture of a small child on the label. I bet it's great for children. Just use it right away before any dirt can get into the cut.
Let me know if your blade chips if you ever hit bone. :eek:
Yeah i've used liquid skin...i actually keep a tube of super glue in my lunch box at work and one in my tool box to close up cuts. They also make a medical grade super glue, it used to be called dermobond or something like that.
Using my Edge Pro and the 120 grit stone I can lower the angle on the edge of ZDP-189 quickly. As the bevel starts to get close to the very edge I need to be careful to check every 3 or 4 strokes to make sure I stop where I want to. At that point raising the grit to 220 then 320 slows the steel removal. After the 320 grit the edge is easily arm shaving sharp. Grits higher than that I like mainly for polishing the edge. I haven't timed the process but I'd say 2 hours max and that includes sharpening the edge after reprofiling the back bevel. Maybe 1 hour with no interruptions which is almost impossible in my house. I'm talking about a change from 20 degrees per side to 15 per side for a back bevel. Going lower would take longer of course. The actual edge I sharpen to between 18 and 25 degrees per side depending on projected cutting needs.
Thought I'd throw this in for those considering ZDP-189 and sharpening and reprofiling is an issue in the decision.
I posted in my picture thread that i think i have about 6 hours total time in reprofiling mine, and that was doing it 2 times. The first time i took it down i wasn't happy with it...one side somehow was lower than the other so i redid it a second time. Also i forgot to add that during the second time i got carried away and came "out" too far with one of my stones on the Lansky and came back down on the edge and dinged it so i had to start over with the course stones to fix it...so if not for that i would've had less time in it.
But, like i said in that other thread don't let reprofiling time push you away...how often do you really need to bother with it? I took mine down mainly to thin out the edge a little and from here out i'm sharpening at 25-30 inclusive so it really only served as a secondary bevel...and if nothing else it'll make future sharpening easier since it's thinner at the edge. It only takes so long when you're this low because you're contacting so much metal on each side. If you bought this knife and didn't reprofile it, it shouldn't take much effort at all to maintain the factory edge because it's so small on each side compared to the big 1/8 inch bevel on mine.
That sounds about right to me Evil. Especially the part about not reprofiling very often.
Also, for anyone new to finding out what edge angles you like be careful when lowering your angles. Once it is lower the only way to get the blade thicker again is to sharpen the edge way up into the blade. I learned this the hard way. Now I have a knife that I experimented with reprofiling with and I removed enough steel that when you close the knife the point is out of the handle just a little. I'm glad it's not one of my favorites or more expensive ones. To fix this I'll need to grind the spine for more of a drop point shape until the point is inside the handle when closed.
Actually to fix that, you'll have to grind down the blade stop thing (i forget the technical term) but it's that flat section just past the very bottom of the sharpened section of the blade towards the pivot. That's what stops the blade when it's in the closed position. If you grind that down some it'll let the blade go in further when closed.
Evil D wrote:Actually to fix that, you'll have to grind down the blade stop thing (i forget the technical term) but it's that flat section just past the very bottom of the sharpened section of the blade towards the pivot. That's what stops the blade when it's in the closed position. If you grind that down some it'll let the blade go in further when closed.
If that's the case that would be great. I didn't know that. I was concerned about grinding the end of the blade and making it look professional not to mention shorter. BTW i believe "blade stop thing" is an industry term. :)
Yeah if you look at the butt of the knife while closed you should be able to see how far you have until the blade hits the handle. Just grind off a tiny bit and then close it and see how it looks and go a little at a time until you get it down enough that the tip is where you want it.
Just be careful if you do modify the kick. Otherwise, the blade will touch the interior of the handle and blunt your wonderfully sharp edge.
Evil D wrote:Yeah if you look at the butt of the knife while closed you should be able to see how far you have until the blade hits the handle. Just grind off a tiny bit and then close it and see how it looks and go a little at a time until you get it down enough that the tip is where you want it.
I did that and it worked perfectly. Thanks for the tip. I could see where it would be easy to grind too much if not careful. I only ground off about 1/64" I guess and got the results I needed. I could have taken a little more but it was surprising how much of a difference that made. Sure was a lot easier than grinding the tip of the blade. Much appreciated.
Last night i cut through several of those very large zip ties...they're about 1/4 inch wide, no chips to report. This is after i've started to sharpen/maintain my edge at about 28 degrees inclusive. It did lose the hair popping edge pretty much instantly but it does still shave, just not as effortlessly. I'm gonna go a few days of using it without touching it up at all just to get an idea of how much use it takes to start seeing a decline in cutting ability.
I have had the tiny-chip problem with both S30V and ZDP-189 when I sharpen them to 30 degrees inclusive. Didn't think my uses were that tough - cutting random stuff around the ranch - but there you have it.
I now sharpen to 30 degrees all the way through, and then add a very small microbevel at 40 degrees inclusive, just a handful of strokes on the extra-fine stones, and that seems to help a lot. I also check very carefully to be sure that there are no tiny spots of burr remaining before doing the microbevel.
All of which leads me to believe that Sal knew what he was up to picking the 30 and 40 degree angles on the sharpmaker...
bdbender wrote:I have had the tiny-chip problem with both S30V and ZDP-189 when I sharpen them to 30 degrees inclusive. Didn't think my uses were that tough - cutting random stuff around the ranch - but there you have it.
I now sharpen to 30 degrees all the way through, and then add a very small microbevel at 40 degrees inclusive, just a handful of strokes on the extra-fine stones, and that seems to help a lot. I also check very carefully to be sure that there are no tiny spots of burr remaining before doing the microbevel.
All of which leads me to believe that Sal knew what he was up to picking the 30 and 40 degree angles on the sharpmaker...
Amazing, isn't it. Someone (Sal) who has been in the business of knives and sharpening them for so many years actually knows what he's talking about. :) Plus in addition to Sal, since I've been trying to get better at sharpening knives several professional sharpeners I've talked to say to keep away from the very low angles unless there is a specific reason an edge needs to be 20 degrees inclusive or something like that. The edge you described is exactly what has been recommended to me. Sal's demo of the sharpmaker and it's angle settings confirms this as well like you said. Knives used for hunting (field dressing game), camping and things like that could use an edge with an inclusive angle of up to 50 degrees I've been told. Personal preference I guess.
So far i haven't had any other chipping issues since i've started sharpening at 28 inclusive. Initially when it was 20 inclusive where i made the real low back bevel (really more like a secondary saber grind) and didn't micro bevel it any lower, that was when i had the chipping issue but i figure i was asking for it being that fine of an edge and cutting huge plastic zip ties. Now i've started to establish a 28 inclusive that you can see with the naked eye and i haven't had any chipping since. I do think the really low back bevel helps drastically when cutting through cardboard..which is my main cutting medium.
