knife for SD
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ssmtbracer
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knife for SD
Is a knife good for self defense or would you suggest something else let say you can't carry a gun. What else would you carry instead of a gun. What kind of things do you have for SD besides a gun. What does not require much training.
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Dr. Snubnose
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ssmtbracer
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Over here in California, having a knife for SD is illegal. Most police will ask you why you have the knife. If you reply with "self defense" they can immediately take you in for carrying a concealed weapon. If you ever get in a situation where a cop questions your need to carry a knife, you should tell him with the utmost respect that it is a tool that you use daily. (opening boxes, cleaning your nails, etc) If you had intentions of killing someone, why not just carry a gun.
There are many different opinions on carrying a knife for self defense. For example, Michael Janich here on the forums is very well known for his excellent use of knives for self defense. In my opinion, I would most definitely get some training before even considering on deploying a knife for self defense.
But, you also must remember, your knife is your last resort. You must first avoid getting into a bad situation. If someone approaches you and demands money, just simply tell him sorry I got none. If you were to bust out your knife immediately, who knows what kind of outcome can happen. He may either run away or he might even turn that knife against you if it does become physical.
What I would do- find a way to settle the situation without a fight. If the guy pulls a knife on me or charges at me, I will run and try to get away from him.
So what other alternatives are there for EDC self defense?
I suggest pepper spray. One that will be easy to take out without a ridiculous safety mechanism too. There are also self defense flashlights and pens that have bezel or blunt tips. I carry a surefire flashlight when I go out at night. If I get approached by someone, I simply stick my hand in my jacket pocket and grasp onto my flashlight. Yes, I have been put in this situation before, luckily I was able to defuse the situation.
I like to think about it like this, I would never pull out a knife in a normal fist fight. The moment you pull out your knife, you have changed your worst case scenario from "being badly beaten" to "being stabbed to death."
I was once told by a friend of mine that works in a local knife shop. "You can even carry a simple Bic pen as your self defense weapon." No man no matter how big or muscular he is will enjoy a pen stabbed into his eye socket or leg etc. No cop will ever question why you have a pen on you and if you happen to stab someone with the pen, it looks 100x more innocent compared to stabbing someone with a knife.
I'm really no expect here and you should really speak with Michael Janich here on self defense with a knife, but I'm only speaking from my own logic and experiences and quoting my father who was a police officer.
Look around, there are many alternatives!
There are many different opinions on carrying a knife for self defense. For example, Michael Janich here on the forums is very well known for his excellent use of knives for self defense. In my opinion, I would most definitely get some training before even considering on deploying a knife for self defense.
But, you also must remember, your knife is your last resort. You must first avoid getting into a bad situation. If someone approaches you and demands money, just simply tell him sorry I got none. If you were to bust out your knife immediately, who knows what kind of outcome can happen. He may either run away or he might even turn that knife against you if it does become physical.
What I would do- find a way to settle the situation without a fight. If the guy pulls a knife on me or charges at me, I will run and try to get away from him.
So what other alternatives are there for EDC self defense?
I suggest pepper spray. One that will be easy to take out without a ridiculous safety mechanism too. There are also self defense flashlights and pens that have bezel or blunt tips. I carry a surefire flashlight when I go out at night. If I get approached by someone, I simply stick my hand in my jacket pocket and grasp onto my flashlight. Yes, I have been put in this situation before, luckily I was able to defuse the situation.
I like to think about it like this, I would never pull out a knife in a normal fist fight. The moment you pull out your knife, you have changed your worst case scenario from "being badly beaten" to "being stabbed to death."
I was once told by a friend of mine that works in a local knife shop. "You can even carry a simple Bic pen as your self defense weapon." No man no matter how big or muscular he is will enjoy a pen stabbed into his eye socket or leg etc. No cop will ever question why you have a pen on you and if you happen to stab someone with the pen, it looks 100x more innocent compared to stabbing someone with a knife.
I'm really no expect here and you should really speak with Michael Janich here on self defense with a knife, but I'm only speaking from my own logic and experiences and quoting my father who was a police officer.
Look around, there are many alternatives!
Most of the time, your best self-defense option is a change in venue. I am being honest here. If you are in fear for your life why? Is it where you hang out? Where you live? Where you work? You live in a state famous for CCW, are you in a situation you cannot carry? Why?
Trying to be a dangerous person in a dangerous place, with dangerous people, carrying a dangerous weapon is a quick road to prison or death.
On the other hand...
If for some reason you are in a non-permissive environment, and a knife is your only option understand that training is important. Knives are not a "fire and forget" weapon. People do not turn to dust when stabbed once or cut twice. The moral and legal issues need to be taken into account.
Using a knife as a self-defense tool is a lot like buying a puppy. It seemed like a great idea, but in a week you realize it is a bigger commitment then you thought at first.
In reality, in a defensive situation, it is normally the "bad guy" who has the knife out attacking you. Trust me the last thing you are thinking about is drawing your knife. Keeping yourself from becoming a human colander is your first consideration.
Good training, counter blade skills, and combative training would be my first recommendation. Not only is it good for our mindset, awareness and safety, it is also a lot of fun and a good source of physical activity. Plus you meet some cool people.
Trying to be a dangerous person in a dangerous place, with dangerous people, carrying a dangerous weapon is a quick road to prison or death.
On the other hand...
If for some reason you are in a non-permissive environment, and a knife is your only option understand that training is important. Knives are not a "fire and forget" weapon. People do not turn to dust when stabbed once or cut twice. The moral and legal issues need to be taken into account.
Using a knife as a self-defense tool is a lot like buying a puppy. It seemed like a great idea, but in a week you realize it is a bigger commitment then you thought at first.
In reality, in a defensive situation, it is normally the "bad guy" who has the knife out attacking you. Trust me the last thing you are thinking about is drawing your knife. Keeping yourself from becoming a human colander is your first consideration.
Good training, counter blade skills, and combative training would be my first recommendation. Not only is it good for our mindset, awareness and safety, it is also a lot of fun and a good source of physical activity. Plus you meet some cool people.
I have fox labs OC with the flip top (2oz legal in Cal) next to my Comtech Stinger2 (not prob as legal). I also daily carry a 3-3.5" blade. Of course I cut more envelopes than people :) .
It's good to have options for different situations and intensities. Training is always good because even OC or a knife won't make you invincible...just like one bullet only guarantees to instantly stops tin cans.
Edit: just refreshed the browser and Mark hit the nail on the head. Avoidance is the only way to guarantee a win...the rest of the tricks and training are once the odds have flipped against you. Fleeing and yelling is still a great tactic even then (and completely legal).
It's good to have options for different situations and intensities. Training is always good because even OC or a knife won't make you invincible...just like one bullet only guarantees to instantly stops tin cans.
Edit: just refreshed the browser and Mark hit the nail on the head. Avoidance is the only way to guarantee a win...the rest of the tricks and training are once the odds have flipped against you. Fleeing and yelling is still a great tactic even then (and completely legal).
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Dr. Snubnose
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Sorry fellows, My last choice would be pepper spray....I have been sprayed so many times and the fact is though it's not pleasant I was still able to continue my attacks....and so will your attacker...To repeat, I don't like the sprays I find them not to be effective against a determined attacker but for whats its worth...Don't buy one of the tiny key-chain sprays.
If you are serious about self-defense, buy a dispenser that is two to
three ounces in size (60 to 90 grams). It contains more OC (Oleoresin
Capsicum…the main ingredient) and more propellant to push the spray out
toward your attacker. Ideally, you should buy three cans of spray. The
first one is used for practice so you know what it does (a self-defense
instructor could help you with this). The second can is for you to
carry for a year. The third can replaces the second can of spray, which
you will again practice with at the end of the first year.
Spray is a better option than foam for most civilian and law
enforcement usage. Consider foam only if you are in an environment
where the spray would cause decontamination problems (health care
institutions, for example). Generally look for a "fogger" or "cone"
type spray rather than a "streamer". Streamers require greater accuracy
than is usually practical. Do not be persuaded by the percentage of OC
in the spray since the Scoville Heat Units (SHU) rating determines the
"heat" of the pepper.
It does not take a particularly high SHU to be effective. The percent
of OC rating (usually 5 or 10%) indicates the relative length of time
the spray may incapacitate the attacker.
As with any force option, training and preparedness are vital...Doc :)
If you are serious about self-defense, buy a dispenser that is two to
three ounces in size (60 to 90 grams). It contains more OC (Oleoresin
Capsicum…the main ingredient) and more propellant to push the spray out
toward your attacker. Ideally, you should buy three cans of spray. The
first one is used for practice so you know what it does (a self-defense
instructor could help you with this). The second can is for you to
carry for a year. The third can replaces the second can of spray, which
you will again practice with at the end of the first year.
Spray is a better option than foam for most civilian and law
enforcement usage. Consider foam only if you are in an environment
where the spray would cause decontamination problems (health care
institutions, for example). Generally look for a "fogger" or "cone"
type spray rather than a "streamer". Streamers require greater accuracy
than is usually practical. Do not be persuaded by the percentage of OC
in the spray since the Scoville Heat Units (SHU) rating determines the
"heat" of the pepper.
It does not take a particularly high SHU to be effective. The percent
of OC rating (usually 5 or 10%) indicates the relative length of time
the spray may incapacitate the attacker.
As with any force option, training and preparedness are vital...Doc :)
"Always Judge a man by the way he treats someone who could be of no possible use to him"
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SkullBouncer
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I'm with most of the rest of the responders here. The best weapon you can get is training. There is no magic bullet (a little bit of pun intended :-P) for SD. It doesn't matter what you carry, be it a knife, gun, spray, impact weapon, or other... if you fail to develop a combative mindset and the basic physical skills to use your weapon and your body to protect your life, you are apt to be incapable of defending yourself against a determined attacker.
You asked what firearm alternative for self defense requires minimum training... I would opine that there is no such animal. People forget that self defense, particularly self defense with a knife is bound to be a messy business. In the Army, when we progress to a certain point in the curriculum of our hand to hand fighting system (Modern Army Combatives), some eskrima instruction is included. The principles behind stick fighting and knife fighting aren't wholly different... and if I accept my experiences getting walloped by a stick as an analog for combat with a person armed with a knife, I am forced to conclude that in a knife fight, both parties are likely to get shredded before the end. Similarly, it takes a lot of walloping from a stick to take a man out of a fight (unless you get lucky, or your skill level is just miles above his), it is gonna take a lot of slicing and dicing to take a man out of a fight (unless you get lucky, or your skill level is just miles above his :-P). Potentially... SD with a knife or other handheld weapon against a knife or other handheld weapon could come down to endurance and tolerance to pain. This means that you need more training, not less, than you would with a firearm to become proficient. I don't mean to imply that you can expect to defend yourself with a gun without training... that would be stupid. I mean, a pistol doesn't require you to be able to stay physically fit, at the very least... so long as you can draw, aim, and pull the trigger, you have fulfilled the minimum physical requirements for operation of your weapon in virtually any statistically likely self defense scenario. Handheld edged and impact weapons on the other hand... well, suffice it to say, if you aren't physically fit... you had better be crazy well trained with your weapon.
Knives and impact weapons both have the same draw back... they are useless at a distance. You have to close the distance and cause a sufficient amount of damage to kill or disable an assailant... who may be armed him/herself, and probably doesn't want to get stabbed in the throat or bonked in the head. Get yourself a rubber trainer and try that on a friend... tell them to fight back exactly as they would if it was a real knife (you might tell them to stop short of pummeling you mercilessly... your call), and see how tiring it is to grapple with somebody for two or three minutes. Sprays and tazers work at a distance, but aren't certain to stop your attacker... particularly if narcotics or alcohol are a factor in the assault.
Anyhow, just my two cents, take it easy all :-D
You asked what firearm alternative for self defense requires minimum training... I would opine that there is no such animal. People forget that self defense, particularly self defense with a knife is bound to be a messy business. In the Army, when we progress to a certain point in the curriculum of our hand to hand fighting system (Modern Army Combatives), some eskrima instruction is included. The principles behind stick fighting and knife fighting aren't wholly different... and if I accept my experiences getting walloped by a stick as an analog for combat with a person armed with a knife, I am forced to conclude that in a knife fight, both parties are likely to get shredded before the end. Similarly, it takes a lot of walloping from a stick to take a man out of a fight (unless you get lucky, or your skill level is just miles above his), it is gonna take a lot of slicing and dicing to take a man out of a fight (unless you get lucky, or your skill level is just miles above his :-P). Potentially... SD with a knife or other handheld weapon against a knife or other handheld weapon could come down to endurance and tolerance to pain. This means that you need more training, not less, than you would with a firearm to become proficient. I don't mean to imply that you can expect to defend yourself with a gun without training... that would be stupid. I mean, a pistol doesn't require you to be able to stay physically fit, at the very least... so long as you can draw, aim, and pull the trigger, you have fulfilled the minimum physical requirements for operation of your weapon in virtually any statistically likely self defense scenario. Handheld edged and impact weapons on the other hand... well, suffice it to say, if you aren't physically fit... you had better be crazy well trained with your weapon.
Knives and impact weapons both have the same draw back... they are useless at a distance. You have to close the distance and cause a sufficient amount of damage to kill or disable an assailant... who may be armed him/herself, and probably doesn't want to get stabbed in the throat or bonked in the head. Get yourself a rubber trainer and try that on a friend... tell them to fight back exactly as they would if it was a real knife (you might tell them to stop short of pummeling you mercilessly... your call), and see how tiring it is to grapple with somebody for two or three minutes. Sprays and tazers work at a distance, but aren't certain to stop your attacker... particularly if narcotics or alcohol are a factor in the assault.
Anyhow, just my two cents, take it easy all :-D
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
- Theodore Roosevelt
"I twisted the knife until I heard his heart-strings sing."
- Jim Bowie concerning Maj. Norris Wright
- Theodore Roosevelt
"I twisted the knife until I heard his heart-strings sing."
- Jim Bowie concerning Maj. Norris Wright
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redhawk44357
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Get good self defense classes.
Thats the best way you can do. Dont fix yourself on any particular 'weapon' or SD tool, but better learn how to THINK, evaluate the situation, deescalate if possible, and last, but not least how to use different types of tools, from edged to impact as well as improvised /keys, cellie, pens, sweatshirts/..
Thats the best way you can do. Dont fix yourself on any particular 'weapon' or SD tool, but better learn how to THINK, evaluate the situation, deescalate if possible, and last, but not least how to use different types of tools, from edged to impact as well as improvised /keys, cellie, pens, sweatshirts/..
"Having a dull knife is like having a stupid friend."
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SkullBouncer
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defenestrate
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Wholeheartedly agreed.. I had a buddy in security who thought he knew his stuff.. and I just took his OC pepper spray and fired a good burst into my mouth.. his jaw dropped... I didn't even tear up.. It's easy to build up resistance and for a comparison, there are some pretty serious hot sauces out there, (like 357 magnum, for example), that are far hotter than many law enforcement grade pepper sprays... Just to put things into perspective.. Needless to say, while the stuff is unpleasant to be sure, a determined (or coked-up, psychotic, etc) attacker will not even be phased by this stuff...Dr. Snubnose wrote:Sorry fellows, My last choice would be pepper spray....
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ssmtbracer
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Thank you for all the feedback. If I were to carry a knife for SD I think I would do the street beat or the Rock salt. However I don't want to just carry them without proper training do you guys have any suggestions on how or where I could get some good training. I also would not mind getting some firearm training I mean I can load and fire a gun but but I would like to learn more than that.
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Dr. Detroit
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VictorLouis
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While OC dispensed in a stream does require more accuracy, you also have FAR less chance of it blowing back on YOU.
I used to carry the ASP keychain dispenser in what's now the 'medium' length. It was the largest back then. I tucked it into my belt near the appendix, and I wore it with my keys attached. It made an excellent flail, in that respect. Anyhow, one day the safety worked loose, and my dunlop pressed the button. I must have 'juiced' my inner thigh for quite some time before I noted what felt like a sunburn occurring in thtat region.
While uncomfortable, it was not at all painful, so ...no harm, no foul.
One night while walking my dog, two other larger strays approached with intent. I sprayed the lead, and he got just enough of a whiff to be dissuaded. The thing is, a lot sprayed back toward me and my dog, and she yelped. I could smell it...just not enough to do anything to me. In any case, it made me rethink this product altogether.
I used to carry the ASP keychain dispenser in what's now the 'medium' length. It was the largest back then. I tucked it into my belt near the appendix, and I wore it with my keys attached. It made an excellent flail, in that respect. Anyhow, one day the safety worked loose, and my dunlop pressed the button. I must have 'juiced' my inner thigh for quite some time before I noted what felt like a sunburn occurring in thtat region.
While uncomfortable, it was not at all painful, so ...no harm, no foul.
One night while walking my dog, two other larger strays approached with intent. I sprayed the lead, and he got just enough of a whiff to be dissuaded. The thing is, a lot sprayed back toward me and my dog, and she yelped. I could smell it...just not enough to do anything to me. In any case, it made me rethink this product altogether.
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Dr. Snubnose
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The spray works well when it comes to dogs....Many many years ago when I was a small child I wanted to be a mailman...while other kids on my block wanted to be firemen and Police Officers I wanted to be the mailman...why?...the mailman I remember used to carry a sidearm, as he was considered a federal agent delivering Federal Property...the Mail. Well most of the houses in Queens NY did not have Rural type Mailboxes, they had mailboxes mounted onto their homes, which in most cases meant the Mailman had to enter a fenced in area to approach the house...Yes the Mailmen were attacked by dogs which by the way..dogs can be very territorial....hence they ended up shooting a lot of dogs in defense...There was public outcry..and they took the firearms away from the mailmen (only the Postal Inspector stills carry a sidearm) and replace it with spray...which seemed to work out real good as the dog's olfactory senses are right up front and one spray would do the trick.....They spray on the other hand does not work to well on animals of the two legged type....Doc :DVictorLouis wrote:While OC dispensed in a stream does require more accuracy, you also have FAR less chance of it blowing back on YOU.
I used to carry the ASP keychain dispenser in what's now the 'medium' length. It was the largest back then. I tucked it into my belt near the appendix, and I wore it with my keys attached. It made an excellent flail, in that respect. Anyhow, one day the safety worked loose, and my dunlop pressed the button. I must have 'juiced' my inner thigh for quite some time before I noted what felt like a sunburn occurring in thtat region.
While uncomfortable, it was not at all painful, so ...no harm, no foul.
One night while walking my dog, two other larger strays approached with intent. I sprayed the lead, and he got just enough of a whiff to be dissuaded. The thing is, a lot sprayed back toward me and my dog, and she yelped. I could smell it...just not enough to do anything to me. In any case, it made me rethink this product altogether.
"Always Judge a man by the way he treats someone who could be of no possible use to him"
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Michael Cook
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:spyder: Anyone who wants to learn self-protection would be well advised to watch "The Missing Link" with Bill Kipp. It'll change your life. It's tougher than Bruce Lee. It's cooler than Elvis. :spyder:
More of what does not work will not work. Robin Cooper, Rokudan; Aikikai.
There is great power in the profound observation of the obvious. John Stone, Rokudan; Aikikai
There is great power in the profound observation of the obvious. John Stone, Rokudan; Aikikai
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Dr. Snubnose
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His advice is good! Works about 50% OF THE TIME.....For the other 50% you better know how to defend yourself....Doc :DMichael Cook wrote: :spyder: Anyone who wants to learn self-protection would be well advised to watch "The Missing Link" with Bill Kipp. It'll change your life. It's tougher than Bruce Lee. It's cooler than Elvis. :spyder:
"Always Judge a man by the way he treats someone who could be of no possible use to him"
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