Testing the Spyderco Forager (pic heavy/video)

[npueppke]

I went out today with my Forager to attempt to do some tasks which I would imagine to come up in a survival type situation, in order to test the knife as an outdoor/camping/survival knife. I've never done any bushcrafting or work like this before with a knife so my techniques could be totally off, but in the process I formulated some opinions about the knife, and especially about what kind of a knife I would want on a dayhike-type camping trip.

First thing I did is try to chop through a dead branch:



In my opinion, the knife is way too light for this kind of work. I've never done this kind of thing with a knife before but after trying it I don't know why you would want to. Not having a lanyard limited how hard I was going to swing the knife, because the handle is too narrow and slippery to get a good grip, but I don't think I would have swung much harder anyways because my hand slid way down to the end of the handle which impacted my hand quite painfully when I hit the wood.

Another thing I noticed is that the blade didn't really dig into the wood, but it tended to slip and slide sideways across the wood, even at a near-vertical angle. I don't know if this is because of the convex bevel or because the knife is so light or what, but it wasn't that the knife bounced back off-it literally just didn't cut into the wood.

In my opinion, chopping with a knife is a pointless thing to do. If you are at home, there is a much better tool to use-an axe. In the wilderness, I think that by the time you moved up to a knife heavy enough to be a decent chopper, you might as well bring an axe, but I would much rather have a smaller knife combined with a lightweight saw.

The next thing that I decided to do is find something to baton through. I made my baton out of a piece of dead wood which I chopped off (also neither easy nor comfortable), and then started batoning through the dead stump of a young tree:





Batoning is surprisingly painful! It hurt like ****, and I'm used to doing a lot of hard, dirty work with my hands. Seriously, it hurt so much I couldn't do it. It didn't matter if I had gloves on or not, when I hit the knife with my baton it felt like I had taken an iron bar and hit a rock. The knife seemed to go through the wood okay, though, and I could see this being a useful thing to do with a knife, but I would either get some really good gloves or use a knife with a kraton handle.

Next I decided to do some more detail-oriented tasks, so I got some wood to sharpen to a point. Just as in chopping, the blade slid off instead of biting into the wood, making it very hard to actually whittle a point in a branch. In addition, the blade is very wide making it hard to control the knife.



To compare, I busted out my Sage, which I found to be a bit short for this kind of work, but it bit right into the wood and I didn't have any problems getting a nice point on the stick.



I also got a living branch because I figured maybe it would be easier to work with, but it really didn't cut the way I wanted it to. If the knife was smaller I might have been able to control it better, but it wasn't suited for this kind of work either.



Finally, I decided to chop some ice for fun, because I was close to a small pond. The Forager excelled at this, no comparison vs. chopping with a hammer or a hatchet. Not sure why anyone would ever need to do this except for fun, but it can do it no problem.



When I got back to the house, I decided to baton again through some wood specifically stored for firewood to see if there'd be a difference. I also remembered that my camera has a video feature, so I took a video of me doing some batoning:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBx0Eje-C0A

Conclusions

The knife is... kind of a compromise between too many things. I read somewhere that Jerry Hossom thought that the best one is the Woodlander (one size smaller than this) and I don't doubt it. I've watched a lot of videos where people decide to chop trees down with knives, and after this I really honestly don't see the point. This knife is way too light and uncomfortable to effectively chop at anything, but it's heavy enough where you will know that you have it with you. I think a better choice would be a smaller knife with a 4-6" blade, which is much handier for every other task but still long enough to baton through anything you'll need to baton through (after all, the way I see it the only reason you'd need to baton anything is to get wood small enough to use as kindling, after you get a good fire going just throw a regular log on that sucker).

My thoughts on the knife itself, just as a knife:

I love everything about it except for the handle. The finger choil is too small to use with thick gloves on, and the handle is too small around to get a good grip on. I'd say that I used it pretty hard, and the knife took it no problem. The scales came loose again, but that's nothing locktite can't fix. Other than that it's in perfect shape, no chips in the edge or marks on the spine or anything.

The knife is dull now, it can't cut paper, but I have the feeling that it might not have been especially sharp when I got it because it is dull along the whole length. In that case, if it was properly sharpened it might have performed better today for whittling and chopping.

I will keep it around the house to use in splitting wood too small to stand up and split with an axe.

Thanks for reading! Hopefully you found it informative and not boring or too critical.

[vivi]

First of all, great write-up and good observations. Your pictures are very nice too.

Another thing I noticed is that the blade didn't really dig into the wood, but it tended to slip and slide sideways across the wood, even at a near-vertical angle. I don't know if this is because of the convex bevel or because the knife is so light or what, but it wasn't that the knife bounced back off-it literally just didn't cut into the wood.

If your knife is like my Forester, the edge bevel is very thick. If you reprofile it to 12 degrees per side you will see much better performance across the board, whether you're chopping or whittling. That's probably why you're Sage did as well as it did, it's ground much thinner.

In my opinion, chopping with a knife is a pointless thing to do.

I am going to have to 100% disagree with this statement, and I think 2 minutes with my hand convexed Scrapyard Dogfather would show you why. I've literally taken apart 10 inch thick tree limbs from trees that had fallen across a trail after bad storms. It will easily outchop my stock Fiskars hatchet. I will agree though for dedicated wood chopping my full size axe is more efficient, but the Dogfather makes a better whittler, draw knife, critter skinner and machete, it's a do it all with one tool type of knife. It's also nice for batoning. I know an axe can split wood, but in the woods I don't have perfectly chainsawed logs that stand upright, which makes it difficult to split with an axe. Trees don't grow in convenient ways in Ohio :D

You need two things for a knife to be a good chopper. You need a thin, sharp edge (Contrary to popular belief thick edges are atrocious for chopping, durability be damned. If it doesn't bite, it doesn't chop) and you need a forward balance. This is why I kept my CG Dogfather but sold the LE, the CG is saber ground and has more forward weight.

The axe and hatchet excel because the mass is concentrated forward. You want a knife, as a chopping knife, to mimic this attribute. Forward mass is also related to blade length. I wouldn't ever use a knife with a 7 inch or less blade as a "chopping knife" for this reason, unless the design was unusually forward balanced.

[npueppke]

First of all, great write-up and good observations. Your pictures are very nice too.



If your knife is like my Forester, the edge bevel is very thick. If you reprofile it to 12 degrees per side you will see much better performance across the board, whether you're chopping or whittling. That's probably why you're Sage did as well as it did, it's ground much thinner.



I am going to have to 100% disagree with this statement, and I think 2 minutes with my hand convexed Scrapyard Dogfather would show you why. I've literally taken apart 10 inch thick tree limbs from trees that had fallen across a trail after bad storms. It will easily outchop my stock Fiskars hatchet. I will agree though for dedicated wood chopping my full size axe is more efficient, but the Dogfather makes a better whittler, draw knife, critter skinner and machete, it's a do it all with one tool type of knife. It's also nice for batoning. I know an axe can split wood, but in the woods I don't have perfectly chainsawed logs that stand upright, which makes it difficult to split with an axe. Trees don't grow in convenient ways in Ohio :D

You need two things for a knife to be a good chopper. You need a thin, sharp edge (Contrary to popular belief thick edges are atrocious for chopping, durability be damned. If it doesn't bite, it doesn't chop) and you need a forward balance. This is why I kept my CG Dogfather but sold the LE, the CG is saber ground and has more forward weight.

The axe and hatchet excel because the mass is concentrated forward. You want a knife, as a chopping knife, to mimic this attribute. Forward mass is also related to blade length. I wouldn't ever use a knife with a 7 inch or less blade as a "chopping knife" for this reason, unless the design was unusually forward balanced.

Thanks for the kind words.

I could have kicked myself for not testing the edge beforehand (and I didn't while I was out there either), but if it was sharp I'm sure it would have performed better. You're right that it has a thick bevel, I'd bet (and sure you would agree) that a fully convexed blade would perform better than a flat ground knife with a thick convex bevel, like this one. A heavier, longer knife would have definitely made a difference. Chopping with the Forager was like chopping with a broomstick instead of a baseball bat. I just don't have a sense for how much longer of a blade you'd need in order to get a better swing, but I wouldn't want to carry a knife that's more than an inch or two longer than this one with me.

I think that the reason it didn't cut well was a combination of it being dull and it having a thick bevel. That thick bevel means that you don't have a lot of leeway to either side of vertical before the side of the bevel contacts the wood instead of just the edge. I'd have stayed out there longer but it is miserably cold outside today for being located on the warm side of Lake Michigan.

Sharpening a convex knife is on my list of things to learn.

[westfork]

Thanks for the pictures and review. Chopping through ice is a twice daily practice with livestock in the winter, especially if your stock tank heaters are not up to the job or if your stock is using a nearby creek.

Finally, I decided to chop some ice for fun, because I was close to a small pond. The Forager excelled at this, no comparison vs. chopping with a hammer or a hatchet. Not sure why anyone would ever need to do this except for fun, but it can do it no problem.

[vivi]

If you check on youtube there are good convex sharpening tutorials. The basic idea is to use varying grits of sandpaper with a soft backing like a mousepad or a piece of leather. For recurve blades like the hossom you could rig up something with a wooden dowel and the mousepad / sandpaper combo. When i was using a forester i was a bit lazy and just used a sharpmaker ultrafine rod on the very edge using the corner. Works for a touch-up or two but i wouldn't use that method long term.

[npueppke]

Thanks for the pictures and review. Chopping through ice is a twice daily practice with livestock in the winter, especially if your stock tank heaters are not up to the job or if your stock is using a nearby creek.

Good point, I hadn't thought of that. You learn something every day, as they say.

If you check on youtube there are good convex sharpening tutorials. The basic idea is to use varying grits of sandpaper with a soft backing like a mousepad or a piece of leather. For recurve blades like the hossom you could rig up something with a wooden dowel and the mousepad / sandpaper combo. When i was using a forester i was a bit lazy and just used a sharpmaker ultrafine rod on the very edge using the corner. Works for a touch-up or two but i wouldn't use that method long term.

Yeah I've researched it, I just have to get around to buying sandpaper and finding something to use as backing. It sounds like it's pretty easy and forgiving which is good for somebody who isn't very good at sharpening, either freehand or with a sharpemaker. I'm pretty good at stropping though.

I might try to make a smooth transition between the primary grind and the bevel at some point but I'll hafta learn how to just sharpen first.

[telemeister]

Very interesting review. You could actually fell a small tree with the correct technique. If you use batoning to cut a wedge on the side of the lean (a scarf cut, I think), then do a "backcut" behind the scarf and the tree should fall in the direction of the wedge. Basically, you do the same thing you would do with a chainsaw. Might be pretty tough to do in hardwood though. From the looks of your video and the pics, I'd say the Forager (or my Forester) wouldn't have too many problems.

[ChapmanPreferred]

Very nicely reviewed.

[JNewell]

Batoning is surprisingly painful! It hurt like ****, and I'm used to doing a lot of hard, dirty work with my hands. Seriously, it hurt so much I couldn't do it. It didn't matter if I had gloves on or not, when I hit the knife with my baton it felt like I had taken an iron bar and hit a rock. The knife seemed to go through the wood okay, though, and I could see this being a useful thing to do with a knife, but I would either get some really good gloves or use a knife with a kraton handle.

Yep, remember those hammers with the steel shafts? ANYTHING was/is better - wood, graphite, etc. But those work reeeeally badly as the tang on a heavy duty knife. :D

Nice review and pics, thanks!

[npueppke]

Yep, remember those hammers with the steel shafts? ANYTHING was/is better - wood, graphite, etc. But those work reeeeally badly as the tang on a heavy duty knife. :D

Nice review and pics, thanks!

I agree completely! It's not the kind of pain you can easily work through.

[vivi]

One more thing to consider. Try #2 sometime and see what you think.

[sixheads]

Thanks for the great review...

I have just made up my mind after reading your reivew and weeks of debating, and i am going with the rock salt and a small fiskers hatchet with the long handel.

Thanks again.

[npueppke]

Thanks for the great review...

I have just made up my mind after reading your reivew and weeks of debating, and i am going with the rock salt and a small fiskers hatchet with the long handel.

Thanks again.

Thanks, glad you liked it...

I've been attempting to sharpen the knife with 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper and a mousepad, I used the sharpe trick and it's taking metal off the bevel but the knife isn't getting any duller.. maybe I need to try coarser sandpaper?

[Scottie3000]

Two points that I have noticed after examining my forager:

1. My forager came hair popping sharp out of the box. I think the author of this thread may have fared better if his knife were sharpened properly to begin with.

2. As for chopping performance, I have a solution for those who think the handle is slippery. Thread a loop of para cord through the spyder hole, and then twist it around your wrist until it holds your hand securely to the handle.

[jzmtl]

The forager I have came with extremely thick edge, probably 50° or more, and isn't sharp to start with. It sounds like you have the same problem.

[npueppke]

Yeah I don't think mine came sharp. If it was it probably would have chopped and cut a lot better. It batoned fine the way it was but a better edge may have improved it, I don't know.