badly finished spyderco

[Farmer Brown]

Multiple posts on different public Forums.

What was the objective?

[Leatherneck]

The last Spydie I bought smelled of Elderberries. I am done with them! :p

[nathan310]

WOW!! All over a stripped screw!?! His reaction is a sign of more serious problems. I feel everyone should be able to voice their opinions on this forum just like I have in the past whether it was good or bad regarding Spyderco. But that guy is on one.

[Pneumothorax]

Wow, that was crazy. I saw this guy's post earlier today before taking off and figured the wind might blow the wrong way. I just logged on and saw that this was 5 pages of responses - a veritable firestorm - not even put out by PB&J!

Sal, kudos to you for maintaining the even keel and respectful way of doing business.

[Zenith]

Nitromors

If you just want to get rid of it you can send it to me! I dont mind! Send me a PM!

[jzmtl]

Well, at least he finally calmed down and made mends on BB thread linked earlier.

[The Mastiff]

This is indeed a very nice place with very decent people. The guy got a lot better reception here than he would have at just about any other place I can think of. To those who criticized the forumites for their reaction to a simple troll I say you're wrong. They showed great restraint all things considering.

It seems like these are stressful times for a lot of people. People exploding over very trivial things seems to be happening more and more.

It does seem a bit strange to see people defending an obvious troll to the point where they attack fellow forumites.

It takes all types to make the world go around I guess.

[Pneumothorax]

I agree with you Mastiff that many of us would have liked to say a lot more than was said, but I also think its good that we can try to balance eachother out a bit. I didnt see the remarks made by some forumites as attacking fellow forumites for vociferously defending Spyderco. I just viewed it as trying to be a voice of reason. Beneath all the anger were valid points on both sides. I viewed the 'defenders fo the troll' as kind of like your friend who puts your hand on your shoulder and says hey, lets calm down - even when he knows you have every right to be pissed off. No need to escalate for something/someone not worth it. Hope that makes sense.

[sarguy]

I refrained from posting, hoping the thread would fall off the first page, but what the heck? This is by far, the BEST and most respectful forum I've ever had a part in. Diagreements are found almost daily here, but our respect for Sal and Co keeps us levelheaded.

To the OP:
I feel bad for you and your perceived slight. I hope that you're able to resolve the issue. We've all seen posts about a possible fit and finish issue, or blade play, or whatever. Nothing's perfect. The cool thing about this place is that laying ones issue out on this forum will get you honest advice about how to handle the problem. We're even cool with a bit of frustration. After all, it does suck to lay down money for something that didn't turn out as one hoped.
Having a keen eye for detail can be a curse or a blessing. Used well, it can not only help a person, but others as well, steering refinements and improvements. Used poorly, it can do nothing but drive a person mad.

Unfortunately it seems that you arrived here "dressed for battle", as one might have to on other forums when airing discontent with a product. Sure, you're cheezed about feeling ripped off. No one's gonna fault you for that. But you don't have to be verbally abrasive, use profanity, and insult the very people who offer advice and a bit of perspective on your problem when it does not fit your paradigm.

I'd wager that the majority of the forumites who lowered the boom on you did so not because you don't like the knife. They did so because of your ad hominem statements suggesting that we are an oppressive, fanatical bunch of collectors that won't tolerate dissent. We may be fanatical :D , but only in hoping others find the same pleasure in owning and using Spydercos that we do.

Again, I hope that you get your issue resoved appropriately. If you chose to keep acquiring Spydercos, I hope that we see you around and that your keen eye for detail can contribute to the forums and Spyderco development in a positive manner.

[aj1985]

I thought atleast by now we would be talking heavily regarding

Peanut butter and Jelly you guys disappoint me. :p :D

aj

[zombie]

Give Spyderco an E-mail or call if the dealer does not handle it properly. Spyderco has replaced kives for me because I didn't like the way they smelled. :)

Your Kidding right :D I'd be curious as to what was going on in the factory the day they made smelly knives :D
but seriously that's above and beyond terrific customer support.
Oh and peanut butter and jelly is good on english muffins.

[The Mastiff]

Pneumothorax, Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post. I must admit you seem to be a guy that is pretty levelheaded, and makes some excellent points. I'll go back and reread some things and look at it from that perspective. It seems maybe I should have done more reading, thinking, and less speaking.

Once again, thank you. One way or another we always seem to get through these things. Regards, Joe/Raleigh

[Marion David Poff]

This is indeed a very nice place with very decent people. The guy got a lot better reception here than he would have at just about any other place I can think of. To those who criticized the forumites for their reaction to a simple troll I say you're wrong. They showed great restraint all things considering.

It does seem a bit strange to see people defending an obvious troll to the point where they attack fellow forumites.

It takes all types to make the world go around I guess.

Well, I certainly hope you don't feel as though I have attacked you, or the fellow forumites.

I just know that for many, the internet forum boards are a refuge. I know they are for me. This is a place where I can enjoy my hobbies, and talk with those of similar interests.

And it seems to me, that one can run the risk of polluting the water in an attempt to get rid of the trolls. Alternately, you can ignore them, remark lightly, or laugh at them as they float on by....

I have seen the former take place, and it was a major reason why I had to stay away from the boards for quite awhile, they tasted tainted.

And I also know, from being a long time lurker on some boards, that trigger fingers get a bit itchy... On two occasions, I have asked simple questions, in innocence, that led to me being called a troll. Once here and once at USN.

So, while I absolutely agree that the OP was way, way, ridiculously out of line.... I think that does not change what I feel is my responsibility to act in the best way I know how.

I make a simple choice, I engage in a way that I will be happy to read later, after things have cooled, or I look away.

None of that equals an indictment of you, or anyone else. But, by the same token, I always think it is appropriate to ask if we did the right thing. That is what makes this place one of the best forum boards around.... Shiny Footprints

BTW - A guy with the handle that includes the word 'nitro' being inflammatory, who would have thunk it. : )

Marion

[markg]

Honestly, I would have assumed two things.


1.) The OP living in England, there is the off chance this knife had the pivot tightened down somewhere in the process. I have never heard of a "sealed" box. Maybe his dealer buys from a distributor, who tightens the pivots for export.

2.) Or, sounds like a returned knife being recycled...

Now, let's have some toasted peanut butter and jelly. :)

[vampyrewolf]

As far as the poster's behavior and language:

Just figured I'd point this out for folks who may not be aware of it.

In your User CP, under Settings (3rd set down on the left), you have an ignore list. Takes seconds to add someone to it, if you don't want to feed trolls.

I tend to at least read a 2nd post or thread before putting someone on it, and revisit my list every few months to see if those members have cleaned up yet. I have had some of our longer posting members on there when they started here, it's worth it to give them a chance to straighten out a lot of the time.

As far as the thread goes

While I know the displeasure of picking up a knife, from a long term seller, with defects... I also know that the sellers will typically work to make it right before you go spewing filth online. The old standard of it being cheaper to keep a customer than find a new one (think the figure is about 10x more spent to bring in 1 new customer, figuring in deals and freebee's compared to advertising and lost sales).
My truck goes back into the dealer again on monday for the 3rd time in 2 weeks, because they misdiagnosed the issue and had to order a part again. This is my 3rd vehicle from them. I'll be contacting the service manager to see what they can do to make sure I buy #4 from them too.

What it all comes down to is that nobody is perfect. Everyone has bad days, and in my current position as Quality Analyst for a major telecomm OEM, I see the direct result of product slipping through the cracks. While you can strive to make a product better, and put procedures in place to catch a lot of the errors... it's how you handle the ones that slip through that make the difference.

Somewhere along the line the knife you have has minor damage (damaged screw head). We can only speculate as to where and when that happened. I've learned between the warranty Dept and now the QA dept that it's impossible to point fingers at anyone. If the seller is unable to make it right either through a replacement or refund, a package off to the warranty with $5 for return shipping will do wonders.

I have 2 lighters going back to Colibri today, of 4 that I own. I've still got one on me, and likely will for a long time. Going to cost me at least 15usd, if the defect is covered under warranty, and who knows how much if it isn't. 3-4 years of use on lighters is worth paying even 1/2 the cost to get a couple working ones back.

[merthyrmafia]

Just to let know, I live just around the corner from Heinnie, and understand your gripe about that issue with that knife, but I will assure you if you do decide to buy a Paramilitary you will not be dissapointed.

[clovisc]

(whoops -- wrong thread! see the new thread i started!)

[The Mastiff]

Well, I certainly hope you don't feel as though I have attacked you, or the fellow forumites

.

Marion, I've never known you to show anything other than decency, and maturity in your posts. I was in no way speaking about you. I'll go so far as to say though that I shouldn't been speaking that way about any other forumites either.

I do know better deep down, and do have better diplomatic skills than I've shown lately. I'm not one to believe in making excuses, but rest assured that I've decided to redouble my efforts to maintain posts to the point where they are a contribution, not a part of mine or any one elses problems.

Quite honestly Sal, And Kristi deserve better, as do the others here I respect such as you, Paul, and the rest.

Thank you Marion, Joe L./ Raleigh

[JNewell]

Here's a happy thought in a generally unhappy thread (though some of the posts like Joe's above are bright spots). When I post here (and for that matter, when I post in the S forum at BF), I try to ask myself how I imagine Sal might feel about what I'm posting. He holds to a pretty high line, though he's not afraid to be honest and call BS when needed. This forum tends to actually be a positive influence on me, which is pretty remarkable for anything on the web, IMO. "WWSD?" :spyder:

John

[Farmer Brown]

How to Buy and Return a Knife
Recent threads prompted me to write this small article, which I hope is useful to some fellow collectors.

As a basic buyers guide for new Spyderco / knife buyers, i'd suggest...:

1) Find a reputable dealer -- someone you can trust will send you a good product, someone who packages/handles knives carefully, and someone who will allow you to get a refund / swap knives. This is especially important if you are the type of consumer who wants spotless fit and finish.

2) The best way to get a "perfect" knife from any brand is to physically visit the store you're buying from. A good dealer will allow you to inspect several copies of the same knife, and choose the one you like the best. I've had great experience doing this at New Graham in VA, as well as Country Knives in PA. If you are like I am now -- living on an island somewhere weird (only one store in town carries a very limited selection of spydies), and you don't have the luxury of visiting a "brick and mortar" store to inspect your knives, build a relationship with your online dealer, and they'll help you ensure that you receive the quality of fit and finish you desire.

3) Whenever you receive a knife in the mail -- inspect it immediately and thoroughly, handling it gently. Go over it a couple times. Make sure you're happy with the product before you begin carrying and using it. Be prepared -- if you're buying sight unseen, the time may eventually come when you need to send a blade back for an exchange. In most cases, you will have to swallow the additional shipping costs... but think of the money you've saved by not driving for 3 hours to New Graham, like I used to do.

With a knife you plan to use, very minor flaws with fit and finish should not prompt you to go to the trouble of returning the blade.

If any flaws are impacting performance or safety, however, you absolutely should return the blade.

If you have a minor cosmetic flaw on a knife you intend to keep as a "safe queen," consider:
A) The cost. It is unrealistic to expect the fit and finish of a $150 Seki Barong on a $25 Chinese Byrd. (Although... those Byrds really look great!) If you're looking for highest quality fit and finish, consider buying the highest quality knives.
B) Your approach to buying. If you nitpick details, you can save yourself, your dealer, Spyderco -- everyone -- a lot of headaches by buying in person at an actual store. Even though it might "cost more" than ordering from yourcornerstore.com , you will be receiving the additional service/consideration of being able to examine knives in person, and choosing the knife that fits your needs best. You'll also be able to learn -- from handling a variety of spydies -- that some of those knives you thought you "needed" might not be to your taste afterall... and that some of the knives you thought were ugly and unworthy are truly awesome, and that you need about half a dozen of them. These services -- which can save a good deal of time, reduce headaches returning knives, and greatly add to the fun of collecting -- are well worth the extra cost that many collectors pay.

Let's say you do have a problem you would like to see addressed. The fair, ethical way to proceed would be:

1) Contact your dealer for an exchange. If you've picked a good dealer, handled your knife with extreme care, and reported your concerns promptly, this should not be a problem.

2) If the dealer will not respond, or is unable to resolve your problem, contact Spyderco's customer service. Don't be surprised if you have to wait a couple days for a response -- especially for an email response. Spyderco is a small company, and though they work very hard to deal with issues quickly, there's sometimes a little bit of a waiting list. The universal rule of thumb is that if you want a faster response from anyone... try the telephone. I usually email folks first, give them a day to respond, then call them the next day. Usually they've read the email already (even if they haven't responded), and are well prepared to talk to me.

3) If you feel like you've done your best to give everyone a fair chance to react to your concerns, that's when you might consider "going public" with your issue... in a sensible way. The best ways to do this politely might be include raising mild concern, or asking a question on a forum. Do not be harsh or express anger -- remember, you're still asking people to HELP you solve your problem! You'll sometimes find that other knowledgeable folks (forumites) are able to help you, or console you. And sometimes, raising a little polite awareness can remind companies that the work they do in helping customers is really important.

4) 1-3 has failed, then things are starting to get a little whacky. This is when you might consider contacting the company again, and expressing your frustration. 90% of the time, asking to speak with a manager will get you the results quickly. If this doesn't work, another great approach -- which I learned from Vampyrewolf -- is bringing your concern to the Sales/Marketing department. They oftentimes have more power within the company than customer service / warranty / repair. Keep in mind, they'll spend TONS of money on advertising to get a few new customers... taking steps to ensure that a current customer is happy is much cheaper than spending the money on finding a new customer to replace you. However, to do this, they'll want to see that you tried hard to reach a resolution BEFORE reaching them. I've also found at this stage that, as in most things, a tactful CC in an email makes people work a little harder... as they know that others are aware of the situation, and are waiting for their response.

5) Finally, as a last resort, if everything else has failed, you might consider spreading your tale of woe around the internet, amongst friends, and writing negative reviews. I'd recommend finding a polite way to warn the company -- including and especially managers, and the sales/marketing department -- that you will be taking this step. Don't voice it as a "threat" -- just explain that you are displeased, you feel you have not been given a fair resolution (make sure you offer them a possible resolution), and that you plan on writing fair, honest reviews about this experience in places frequented by other consumers. If the company doesn't care, then think of it as your job to protect other consumers by warning them about your bad experience.

6) Go ahead and write honest reviews, but be sure that you are writing them in a reasonable, calm manner. While it is okay to express emotion by saying things like "I was extremely disappointed/frustrated/displeased," take care to ensure your review doesn't read like an angry, crazed rant... readers will be tempted to think you are a crazy maniac, and the intensity of your angry outpouring will obscure the legitimacy of your issues. I try to mention the names of specific people at companies who I feel like behaved inappropriately, or were unkind.

If you get this far, behaving respectfully, and following these instructions carefully, and did not get the product you wanted -- wow. I'm really sorry you had such a bad experience.

I've never gotten all the way to the end, but I have gotten to #4 with Sage (the fly rod company). The company made a mistake, and there was one single surly employee (I think she was playing CYA because she'd made the mistake -- and it was a really embarrassing one). A manager replaced my product with an even better product as an apology, and I've come to really appreciate their company, service, and products, in spite of that bad first experience.

Well done.