Just bought my first Spyderco, very disappointed in the Caly3...

[npueppke]

Remember, I am by no means an expert in these matters. If I'm wrong on something I fully expect (and appreciate) someone jumping in.

Movement is measured at the tip, assuming a 3 or 4" blade on 3mm steel. Lock the handle tight in a vice get a gauge by it and start flexing with your hand. You will be able to move 99% of the folding knives out there in at least 1 primary plane.

Any time there are machined surfaces there are tolerances to consider. How much is required for smooth operation or low wear is left to the engineer and task at hand. Spyderco does a decent job at it, allowing knives that are 20 years old to still function with moving parts (I've got one of the early rescues still, '92 or '93 model)). I have slipjoints dating back 75 years, and it's hard to find one older than about 20 years without being loose.

The only spyderco knives I have come across with very little play in any direction have been ball bearing locks, compression locks, and the 1st gen chinook. I haven't gotten my hands on one of the slipjoints long enough to test. As pointed out above me, the Golden spydie have very tight tolerances. Both of my military's have been solid.

I've been abusing a stainless dragonfly for 8 years now, have play in 3 planes (closing direction is still solid). I'm abusing it till it breaks, and then I've got a spare waiting. This has been done through prying, pushing, using as a hammer, snap cutting, flicking open, twisting, excessive force into a cut... just about anything that'd make a warranty dept laugh at the prospect of replacing it. I'm not concerned at all about the amount of play on it. Simply because I can get 1mm in 3 planes (on a 2" blade) with my hands, doesn't mean it's weak or loose.

Okay yes if you're measuring it at the tip I think 2mm or so sounds reasonable. I just wasn't sure where you were measuring from-I thought maybe you meant measuring at the tang somehow. I don't have access to a vice currently but just flexing my knives and looking at them I'd say most of them move around this much horizontally (but how much of this is due to the blade bending I'm not sure). Vertical play is significantly less, even in lockbacks. All of this is completely normal/inherent in folding knives.

[vampyrewolf]

Okay yes if you're measuring it at the tip I think 2mm or so sounds reasonable. I just wasn't sure where you were measuring from-I thought maybe you meant measuring at the tang somehow. I don't have access to a vice currently but just flexing my knives and looking at them I'd say most of them move around this much horizontally (but how much of this is due to the blade bending I'm not sure). Vertical play is significantly less, even in lockbacks. All of this is completely normal/inherent in folding knives.

Which is why I said that 2mm in any direction is within tolerances. 2mm arc, 102mm (4") radius gives 0.196 radians or 1.12deg of arc. Pretty hard not to allow that 1 degree of movement with mechanical action (0.6% of the total movement). 1% of movement is 3.2mm on that same 4" blade.

[RockyMatt]

Thought for sure this thread was going to be a joke posted by someone who was in love with the Caly...

I am very shocked to hear about your issue though.. The Caly 3 has gotten a lot of press for being a true knife lovers knife due to it's fit and finish and I think rightfully so.

Mine sees a fair amount of pocket time and is still as solid as the day I got it.

Every Caly3 I've ever handled has locked up nice and tight.

Sorry to hear about your issue, vertical blade play is not the norm for Spydercos in my experience.

You said you went to exchange it at the store and the other 4 knives had the same blade play? Bad batch or something? That's pretty amazing to me.

I'd say try to reserve final judgment until you get the knife back.

[nathan310]

Someone said all knives had blade play. No they don't. I have a small sebenza in my pocket and there's no play in that at all not too mention a bunch of knives at home with no play.

[flipe8]

Someone said all knives had blade play. No they don't. I have a small sebenza in my pocket and there's no play in that at all not too mention a bunch of knives at home with no play.

I've had three Sebenzas(including the one riding in my pocket) that came with blade play due to the pivot bushing being too thick. Think of the money spent on those knives to have them come less-than-perfect . Sure, I was bummed, but I got over it, as imperfections occur-regardless of brand or price-range. At the end of the day, if the company strives to make right, that's good enough for me. Spyderco has stated they'd do their best to make it right, so why don't we leave it to them to do that. :spyder:

[DMgangl]

Nautilus, if you heat the pivot screw up with a hair dryer after a few minutes it should heat up the lock tight up enough to move the pivot. It may take longer, but is the best way I can think of to do it and not risk damaging the G10.

As for sending the knife back I would say that if you have been through 4-5 Caly 3s at the store and all had more blade play then you are comfortable with, you may just want to go ahead and try a different model. One that I would think would be right for you would be the Para. The compression lock is very strong and on my Superhawk there was no movement what so ever, or a new Manix 2.

DM

[Doc Pyres]

What !?!? :confused: I don't believe you Doc :p

You better get one. I highly recommend both the G10 and the CF versions. I carry the G10/ VG10 version on a regular basis along with my Kopas. The CF one represents pretty goof value ATM from various stores.

You are right Daniel, I know it's sad, and unbelievable really, the Docster without a Caly 3! :rolleyes:

But I will fix the error of my ways ASAP. (And maybe get another Forester too :D )

[nautilus]

Well, because a few of you asked for an update, here it is. I went back to the store, returned my Caly 3, and bought a couple more bugs :D . I understand that Spyderco customer service would have probably taken care of me, but I don't want to expect something from a knife that seems to have inherent qualities that don't fit my qualifications. While I was in the store I played with a bunch of their spyderco lock back knives and they all had play (as I define it). I checked out one if their ball bearing lock knives as some of you recommended and it was very solid, It seems that there just aren't a lot of bb lock knives to choose from.

They unfortunately didn't have any urbans or a ukpk which is what I'm considering replacing the Caly 3 with, so I'm thinking about having them order me one.

Can anyone here confirm or deny that the blades on either of those knives won't have noticeable up and down movement? I did some searching, and it seems to be the trend that users are saying these knives feel more solid than the Caly 3.


Also, just to clarify as I got some comments concerning the strength of the locking mechanism. I was never concerned that the lock would fail, I simply don't like the sensation of the blade moving as I cut something.

Thanks again for all the input.
Mike

[letsgoworkout]

cough cough(fit and finish)cough cough

[Blerv]

*cough, insightful, cough*

[jzmtl]

cough cough(fit and finish)cough cough

cough cough(clueless)cough cough

Seriously, some people just cannot be taught.

Edit: Everyone should read this thread and think about the pics in it.

[peacefuljeffrey]

I just stumbled into this thread and the lead-off post had me scratching my head.

Why on earth would a "first Spyderco" having blade play result in a dichotomy of, "Should I try to get the company to find me a specimen that's acceptable or should I never buy another Spyderco?"

Um, let's not forget that different models have different designs altogether, and some are by nature a bit tighter than others, to say nothing of variations that may occur in different manufacturing batches; so it's ridiculous, in my view, to say that because you found specimens of one model with unsatisfactory blade play, you must give up on the brand in its entirety. What kind of logic dictates that?? It really sounds almost like a troll to drum up some sort of anti-Spyderco rants. I'm serious, I can't figure out why a person would leap from finding one model that didn't satisfy him to asking, "Should I give up on Spyderco altogether?"

[merthyrmafia]

I realize that this kind of turned into a rant, so skip the the bottom for cliffs...


I've been into knives for as long as I can remember, and have always pretty much thought Spyderco's were kinda weird looking so I never bothered to buy one.

This all changed when I was browsing through my local sporting goods store and the little bug caught my eye, I asked to take a look at it and handed it back assuming it cost around $30. Much to my surprise the store was selling them for only $5.95 so I picked one up. It's by far the nicest anything I've bought for 6 dollars so I figured if Spyderco can make something this nice for $6 I have to try out one of their high end EDC knives.

So I did some research on the forums and picked out the Caly 3 G-10.
The knife lived up to all the hype and I love everything about it, ergonomics, spidey hole, low ride clip, ect, with one major exception, blade play...
It had both vertical and horizontal play, so I took it back to the shop I bought it from and asked to exchange it. They end up pulling out 4 different Caly 3's that all have play in them, so I settle with the one that has very little play after they assure me that they'll take care of me if anything happens.

So, I play with my new Caly 3 for the weekend and cut nothing more than fruits and veggies with it and some more play develops. I notice that the pivot bolt is sliding with the blade just a bit when I open or close the knife, so I figure I should try tightening it to get rid of at least the horizontal play and to keep the pivot bolt snug. I start by inserting a never used allen key and turn the bolt out as to not over tighten it. Well, there's so much **** locktite in the threads that I can barley turn the nut out, I manage to loosen it a half turn or so then I go to tighten it and the bolt won't budge. I turned it pretty hard then stopped as I was afraid of stripping the bolt. As you can imagine the knife has even more play with the loose bolt and is now essentially useless.

I called customer support, and once they called me back the lady I spoke with was very nice and helpful but she told me that the best she could do is that once I sent the knife in she could look through the stack and try to find one with minimal play, but couldn't guarantee she would send me a knife with a solid lockup. If she couldn't find me a knife that's acceptable she would "issue me a credit". She also said that the Caly 3 G-10 is known to have blade play, and that they're going to discontinue it.

I have 4 other folders that I've used for years, the most expensive of the group being around $35, all of them have a rock solid lockup and the ones with adjustable pivots actually let me adjust them...

I can't believe that with all the time and money put into the design and testing of this knife that these very basic issues could have been overlooked.
I thought I read on the forum that this knife is the result of 20 years of testing and refinement or something along those lines?

So, now I'm debating whether I should simply return the knife, and forget about Spyderco (aside from my bug) or is it worth the hassle of dealing with customer service to maybe find a knife with solid lockup that probably has too much loctite to ever adjust.

Any experiences or input would be appreciated.

Cliffs:
Bought a Caly 3, loved everything about it except for the blade play.

Went to exchange it and the other 4 knives at the store had blade play

Called customer service, learned that this is a known issue, and they might be able to send me a solid knife.

Tried to adjust the knife on my own, but there's so much loctite in the threads that I can't even turn the bolt

Don't know if I should return the knife and never buy a Spyderco again, or should I try to work things out?

That's why I would never buy a back lock knife, no matter who made them, there is a major design flaw with all back lock knives, everytime you open the knife there going to be a small amout of wear, unlike liner locks compression locks or axis locks.

[iwolf81]

Is there a tiny nick somewhere on the blade? Is so, this Caly3 may be a factory second and that might explain the problems with it. Check out this link for pictures of the various nicks: http://paulberetta.com/spy101_notched_seconds.htm

Regards,
Ira

[Blerv]

Well, because a few of you asked for an update, here it is. I went back to the store, returned my Caly 3, and bought a couple more bugs :D . I understand that Spyderco customer service would have probably taken care of me, but I don't want to expect something from a knife that seems to have inherent qualities that don't fit my qualifications. While I was in the store I played with a bunch of their spyderco lock back knives and they all had play (as I define it). I checked out one if their ball bearing lock knives as some of you recommended and it was very solid, It seems that there just aren't a lot of bb lock knives to choose from.

They unfortunately didn't have any urbans or a ukpk which is what I'm considering replacing the Caly 3 with, so I'm thinking about having them order me one.

Can anyone here confirm or deny that the blades on either of those knives won't have noticeable up and down movement? I did some searching, and it seems to be the trend that users are saying these knives feel more solid than the Caly 3.


Also, just to clarify as I got some comments concerning the strength of the locking mechanism. I was never concerned that the lock would fail, I simply don't like the sensation of the blade moving as I cut something.

Thanks again for all the input.
Mike

I'm glad things are working out decently so far. I can't comment on the ukpk as I don't have non-lockers. They will definitely have more play vertically towards your fingers.

The main prob is the design of the lock will always win. Unless your shopping for a very heavy duty backlock it WILL have a tiny bit of play. There is a chance a comp lock or axis lock may have a little rattle or al liner lock may be a tad stiff. Basically like people they all have common and rare quirks.

I would hold a helluva lot of knives and shop heavier than lighter. Then you can get a lighter edc or gents on the second pass. That way blade play won't be a prob at all. If you can find blade play with a manix2 it's the user not the knife :) .

[The Deacon]

They unfortunately didn't have any urbans or a ukpk which is what I'm considering replacing the Caly 3 with, so I'm thinking about having them order me one.

Can anyone here confirm or deny that the blades on either of those knives won't have noticeable up and down movement? I did some searching, and it seems to be the trend that users are saying these knives feel more solid than the Caly 3.

Those knives are both slipjoints. There is no lock, any feeling of solidity is purely subjective.

That's why I would never buy a back lock knife, no matter who made them, there is a major design flaw with all back lock knives, everytime you open the knife there going to be a small amout of wear, unlike liner locks compression locks or axis locks.

It's your money, to spend as you choose, but unless the laws of physics are different over there, I can't see how that could possibly be true.

[supermatch38sa]

those knives are both slipjoints. There is no lock, any feeling of solidity is purely subjective.

It's your money, to spend as you choose, but unless the laws of physics are different over there, i can't see how that could possibly be true.

+10,00:)

[carrot]

Well, if you define vertical play as being when you push down on the edge of a knife (don't use your hand please, use a table), the blade moves up a bit, then the UKPK and Urban do not have play. In fact, they feel solid in any direction up until the point where the notch disengages.

All of my Spyderco lockbacks have a very small amount of vertical play... this is just inherent to more fault-tolerant design of their lockbacks. I have, or have had over 50 Spydercos. It is either something you learn to live with (I don't even notice it in daily use) or something to go out of your way to avoid, but you will end up missing out on a lot of Spyderco's best designs.

[nautilus]

iwolf81: The knife was bought from a very reputable dealer in Colorado and had no factory second marks.

Carrot: Thanks for the input, that's what I was hoping for.

I just called up my dealer and they're going to order me a UKPK.
They told me that I'm not even obligated to buy it if it comes in and I don't like it, but based on what i've read I think I'll be taking it home in a couple weeks.

Anyone know if there are any plans to release a model with similar ergonomics of the Caly3/ukpk but with a ball bearing lock?


Also, I apologize to those of you that took offense to my posts.
I suppose I didn't have the greatest things to say about a company you all love but I suppose my expectations were let down a bit as I couldn't have imagined that a knife with a $175 msrp would have blade play.
Aside from that, the knife had excellent design, machining, and ergonomic properties so I'm giving Spyderco another shot.

Why on earth would a "first Spyderco" having blade play result in a dichotomy of, "Should I try to get the company to find me a specimen that's acceptable or should I never buy another Spyderco?"

I was looking for a lockback knife when I purchased the Caly 3 and when I discovered that they were selling this knife knowing that it exhibits the characteristics I don't like it wouldn't make sense for me to purchase another one of their knives that exhibited similar characteristics.
I know now that this flaw is inherent in essentially all lock back knives, not just Spyderco's

I guess I'm a troll for writing a critique? :confused:

[Ben_1323]

Anyone know if there are any plans to release a model with similar ergonomics of the Caly3/ukpk but with a ball bearing lock?

Not that I know of, but I really wish they were. I'm in the same boat as you, I don't like lockbacks because of the inherent movement, but I love the design of the Caly 3 besides the lock. If they made one with a ball bearing lock I'd probably buy a dozen.