Practical Tactical Pens?

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CUMAONE
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Very True indeed

#41

Post by CUMAONE »

Dr. Snubnose wrote:I think the real issue here is one of skilled vs unskilled. The skilled person who has trained for many years will probably be able to use not only a tactical pen but pretty much any type of improvised weapon or article as a tool for SD. I have viewed the videos mentioned in this thread and I must admit they a quite good, however the techniques are being apply by skill martial artists...and all these people will probably be able to apply the same shown skills empty hand without the pen. For the unskilled there exists the problem of thinking that a pen in the pocket will serve them well in a SD situation where their lives or serious injury to themselves might be at stake. The pen is not the answer...getting the training is the most important part. You can walk into any hardware store and find 100's of things that could be effectively use as a SD tool without screaming "Weapon". Is the pen a better way to go? I don't think so. For the unskilled it provides a false sense of security and a poor weapons choice...IMHO Pens were made for writing not fighting.....Doc :D


Very true indeed. That's why it is important to take some kind of training.

Most of the people in the video except for the teacher and two guys in front were beginners, like white and yellow ranks, some 1st day people.

The video that we are filming Saturday will have a lot of 1st day people and beginners as well.

and a pen is better than nothing. So is a cell phone.

ACE HARDWARE is very tacticool :) .
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fultoncoshooter
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#42

Post by fultoncoshooter »

i was given a benchmade stainless steel pen its one heavy SOB

Image
stonyman
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#43

Post by stonyman »

I think Doc hit it well in the last post. Skilled vs unskilled is the key. The skill set of the instructor in the vid is obvious. I have problems with folks purchasing these items without any foundation to fall back on. The objective is to stop the threat period! The weapons help carry out that objective if need be.

Tool fixation is a disaster waiting to happen. With that in mind, I am in need or due for a nice heavy-duty writing instrument. :rolleyes: With my handwriting, the best writing tool will not help me..........Thank God for the keyboard! :D Take care all and God Bless.
CUMAONE
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#44

Post by CUMAONE »

Agreed.


We will be filming on a BOB dummy tonight to see what breaks and stabs through his rubbery skin and how deep. He will be wearing a karate Gi, which is about as thick as a shirt.

We will test with Bic Pens, sharpened #2 pencils, scissors, a knife, tactical pens and kubotons.

We are also folding leather over him to simulate a leather racket. Don't want to ruin my jacket :D

The final test of the evening will be comparing the penetration of the items items through a SIG type hard metal water bottle.

We will have both an adult male (aprox 200lbs ) and a 14 year old teenage boy who weighs 120 lbs try to show the difference in striking power.

Hopefully we can have the video up on YOUTUBE before the weekend.
Don Ellis
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#45

Post by Don Ellis »

fultoncoshooter wrote:i was given a benchmade stainless steel pen its one heavy SOB

Image

It looks like they use the same top-quality box-maker as Spyderco. :D
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KaliGman
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Technique

#46

Post by KaliGman »

CUMAONE wrote:Agreed.

...
We will have both an adult male (aprox 200lbs ) and a 14 year old teenage boy who weighs 120 lbs try to show the difference in striking power...
I have found, in actual fighting during my law enforcement career, sparring in various locations over the years, and using sharp, pointy implements in various situations, that skill and proper technique determines "striking power" far more than do size and weight. If the skill is roughly equal (or not there at all, when you are discussing the untrained), mass and muscle come into their own. Speed of the strike, would, of course, also need to be factored into the calculation.
"There is no weapon more deadly than the will." Bruce Lee

"The most pervasive and least condemned form of dishonesty is not doing the best you can." Colonel Jeff Cooper
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KaliGman
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Suggestion

#47

Post by KaliGman »

Hey Cumaone,

Every one of your posts on the Spyderco forum is in this thread. How about adding a Spyderco knife to your upcoming tests? This is a knife forum for crying out loud :D . (Just messing with you)

Play with a big Manix, Military, or Kris, if you have one of them--and use them on your Body Opponent Bag (BOB) in the closed position as a striking implement. With care, they can be used in training with other students, for comealongs, joint locks, chokes, throws and other interesting activities. If you have never used a high quality folder in this manner, you are in for a treat.

I actually prefer a good closed folder to almost any other improvised kubotan:

http://www.albokalisilat.org/folding.html
http://www.albokalisilat.org/folding2.html
http://www.albokalisilat.org/folding3.html

I have, however, been known to demonstrate the uses of various other improvised weaponry (and use a bit of it for real, from time to time):

http://www.albokalisilat.org/improvised.html
http://www.albokalisilat.org/improvised2.html

I particularly enjoyed using a quarter as a weapon in the improvised weaponry video series, and I always enjoy cipecut (sarong/belt fighting)--though I used a jacket instead of a traditional sarong in the video.

Every now and again, I throw one of the older videos from my website up on YouTube, including the Lava video and the improvised weaponry series.

Have fun with your testing and training.
"There is no weapon more deadly than the will." Bruce Lee

"The most pervasive and least condemned form of dishonesty is not doing the best you can." Colonel Jeff Cooper
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Dr. Snubnose
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#48

Post by Dr. Snubnose »

KaliGman wrote:I have found, in actual fighting during my law enforcement career, sparring in various locations over the years, and using sharp, pointy implements in various situations, that skill and proper technique determines "striking power" far more than do size and weight. If the skill is roughly equal (or not there at all, when you are discussing the untrained), mass and muscle come into their own. Speed of the strike, would, of course, also need to be factored into the calculation.
KaliGman is 1000% correct with his statements....Doc :D
"Always Judge a man by the way he treats someone who could be of no possible use to him"

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CUMAONE
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#49

Post by CUMAONE »

KaliGman wrote:I have found, in actual fighting during my law enforcement career, sparring in various locations over the years, and using sharp, pointy implements in various situations, that skill and proper technique determines "striking power" far more than do size and weight. If the skill is roughly equal (or not there at all, when you are discussing the untrained), mass and muscle come into their own. Speed of the strike, would, of course, also need to be factored into the calculation.
Understood and agreed.

Sifu's thoughts are pretty much the same.

With this test he wanted to show that while an pretty experienced 200lb guy drove a pen deep into BOB, a not so experienced lightweight teenager had a big challenge obtaining the same results.

My wife is smaller than the teen, so impact was more likely than puncturing for her.

If he just post guys in uniforms doing it, people will say "of course , these guys are trained martial artists".

If he uses all beginners, people will say" That's why training is more important that the weapon" etc...

Which is all true.

So he just wanted to test and compare results with both at the same time, natural attacks vs trained martial artists.

As far as knives go, he has a bag of like 50 in his office. Pretty nice stuff too.

Bob's neck and throat is sliced and he is all stabbed to bits, a big chunk of his face is gone. I am assuming Sifu did this.

I will take your suggestions to him next time in class.

BTW, we have a Kali/Escrima class every Wed night. Lots of fun and banged up fingers.

Thanks again.
CUMAONE
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#50

Post by CUMAONE »

"Everyone of your posts on the Spyderco forum is in this thread. How about adding a Spyderco knife to your upcoming tests? This is a knife forum for crying out loud. (Just messing with you)"

I brought this up to Sifu tonite. He said There are alot of great knife and tactical magazines with steel experts who test knives every month.

He also said there are tons of knife fighting courses one can take in person, online, in books and videos etc..And alot of the same, some really practical, some not, stuff repackaged over and over again.

The practical tactical pen training he is promoting is for people who do not , can not or will carry a knife but want a little something they can use as a last ditch SD tool if need be. Most of those who can, will and do carry blades can used a closed folder for compliance and really dont need or want a tactical pen. some exceptions of course.

I only post to this thread because I found it on Google, thought is was cool and like Spyderco knives :)

I may be able to get my teacher to post here, he generally avoids forums because of aholes on other forums in the past. So far the people here seem pretty cool and more down to earth than on martial arts and self defense forums.

We'll see...
stonyman
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#51

Post by stonyman »

It would be great to have your Sifu come on board. Actually he may find himself in the company of like minded people. There are some of us who really take our training seriously! :rolleyes: :D If I have not officially welcomed you yet Welcome aboard. Take care of yourself and God Bless.
Waysun Johnny Tsai
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#52

Post by Waysun Johnny Tsai »

Wow. I just found this old post, wonder if anyone is looking at it. If so, Hello! and thanks for the invite to the forum!

BTW, I love Spyderco knives!



All The Best-

Waysun Johnny Tsai
http://www.cumaram.com
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