How I Sharpen My Knives

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vivi
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How I Sharpen My Knives

#1

Post by vivi »

I had a request from another member to detail my sharpening methods, so here they are. I'll go step by step with what I'd do to a new knife I'm putting into my EDC rotation.

For clarity, here's how I define terms used when discussing sharpening.

For the past few years I've been using regular V edges. Over time I've moved towards convex edges. I started out doing thin V grinds, then convexing the edge bevel into the primary grind. These days I do the whole bevel convex and I find myself preferring this method. Very easy to get hair whittling sharpness, sandpaper is cheap and readily available at many stores and it saves me time from having to convex the edge bevel as a seperate step like I used to. I'll still cover my old methods for those who prefer V edges.

[CENTER]Image

My sharpening equipment.


Reprofiling[/CENTER]

For this I have a DMT X course stone with a nice stand and cover. I superglued a DMT XX course steel plate to the cover. so I can use the base to the XC with it. These stones work really fast and are low maintenance. When reprofiling a knife I keep a damp towel handy to wipe off the removed metal periodically, keeping the stone fresh and grinding quickly.

I use heavy pressure and quick strokes. Edge leading or trailing makes no difference here since you won't be working with the edge, just go with what you're more comfortable with. I use edge trailing usually because I find it easier to control for this type of work.

The question of how thin to go often comes up when discussing reprofiling. How thin depends on if you plan to use a microbevel or not. For a large, flat ground knife like a Military, if I were going to use a microbevel I'd grind the secondary bevel at 5-8 degrees per side. If I were not, I'd use 10-12 degrees per side. For most of the steels Spyderco uses, I've found this to be slightly thicker than what I need for my typical uses (Food prep, carving wood, slicing cardboard, cutting plastic packaging, slicing rope etc.), which provides me with a little extra robustness in case I make a sloppy cut or bump into metal by accident. This still gives excellent cutting performance, though for a dedicated slicer like my Caly Jr ZDP189 I'd typically go only a few degrees more obtuse than the primary grind itself then apply a tiny microbevel at about 6 degrees per side.

These angles are much thinner than what nearly every other source I've ever come across recommends for knife sharpening.

*Shrug* They're durable enough for me, even for my fixed blades I baton with regularly, and I don't see any benefit to leaving the edge much thicker than it needs to be. I don't know what kinds of usage others have in mind when they recommend a 30 or 40 degree edge for a knife, but that is something I would consider too obtuse even for my axe, much less a small knife like the Calypso. The best way is to test it yourself, if you don't mind potentially damaging your knife. Think of the most edge abusive task you would typically expect to use the knife for, then start reprofiling your knife. When you're done, go try that cutting task. If the edge doesn't fail, go thinner. Keep going (gradually!) until the edge bends or microchips at the edge. Any damage detectable by the unaided eye or fingernail is what you should look for. Once you've found the point, you can sharpen a degree or two more obtuse than that, or you can go a degree or two more acute and use a microbevel. Either way, your edge should now be optimized for YOUR uses.

You can reprofile serrated knives too, with two options you can generally take. If you're patient, you can wrap the corner of a desk or sharpmaker rod with low grit sandpaper, and use edge trailing strokes at a more acute angle than you'd use to sharpen the secondary bevel. Or you can reprofile it like you would a plain edge knife, and stop once you're about to remove the secondary bevel completely. Then just sharpen it as you did before and regrind the back bevel as needed.

[CENTER]
Image[/CENTER]

A Boker Trance with the serrated area reprofiled some. Very quick, rough job.

Specialty bladeshapes sometimes require a little ingenuity to reprofile. A standard hawkbill isn't very difficult. A SM rod or wooden dowel wrapped in low grit sandpaper will take care of it. Reverse S Curve blades and regular Recurves can be handled the same way.

This part can take anywhere from a few minutes if you're just dropping the secondary bevel angle of a flat ground 8Cr13MoV, to hours if you're regrinding a ZDP189 Endura flat to the stone (Not recommended, buy a belt sander :p ).


[CENTER]ImageImage[/CENTER]

Paramilitary before and after reprofiling. The reprofiled blade sharpens quicker utilizing a microbevel, cuts with much less pounds of force and provides adequate durability for my needs.

[CENTER]Image[/CENTER]

Centofante 3 taken flat to the stone, turning the hollow saber grind into more of a flat saber grind. With a microbevel this could be used to carve seasoned hardwood, and was among the best cutters I've used.

[CENTER]Image[/CENTER]

A less extreme example, this Police 3 was reground slightly for better cutting and to even the edge bevels. Later it was ground to a thinner, more polished convexed edge and has performed much better.

[CENTER]ImageImage[/CENTER]

Endura ZDP189 before and after being reprofiled. The factory edge came sharp enough to whittle the hair in the picture, but the penetration in thick materials when making a cut was very poor. The reground Endura cut very well and the edge was durable enough to stand up to batoning wood.

[CENTER]Bevel Refinement[/CENTER]

After grind the bevel in at the angle I want, and making sure the bevel is flat and the old one is completely gone, I begin to polish it. If I was using the XX course stone, I'll run the bevel over the X course a few times. Then I use the DMT fine stone. The big jump in grits doesn't matter much in my experience as the diamonds work quickly. Once the X coarse scratches are all gone, I'll either stop there or polish the bevel on 2000 grit sandpaper if I feel like making it really shine. At this point the edge should be polished and burr free, easily popping off arm hairs. This stage only takes a few minutes for pocket knives. Longer depending on the steel type and size of the knife.

At this point, with the edge at least shaving sharp and the bevel set, I use the knife to whittle seasoned hardwood rods I keep on hand. If the bevel is thin enough, the wood will easily peel off and the knife can be held nearly flat to the wood. To me this is more comfortable than having to turn the knife to cut using a 20 degree per side edge, which coupled with the reduced force the thin edge cuts with means much less strain on my hands and wrists. If I'm not happy with how it cuts, I grind it thinner. This part is subjective to a degree. You can try this or find some other way of determining how good the edge feels to you. Try to pick a cutting task that is affected more by geometry than sharpness though.


[CENTER]Sharpening The Edge[/CENTER]

For this I typically use the white sharpmaker rods. They provide a fine enough finish for an EDC in my opinion, but if I had an ultrafine benchstone I'd use that instead. I typically will hold the knife a degree or two higher than I ground the edge bevel at and use edge leading strokes. I've found they produce less burring than edge trailing. I use very few strokes, usually between 3 and 5 strokes per side on a freshly reground knife. I check the edge by making sure it effortlessly pops of hair stubble throughout the entire edge. From here I usually give it 5-10 strokes per side on a leather strop with green buffing compound, using edge trailing strokes. I check the edge and make sure it push cuts receipt paper with ease, and it is "sharp."

To touch up the edge, I repeat this section. Typically I touch up the edge when it no longer easily shaves, and for this I again use 3-5 strokes per side on the SM whites then a few strokes on my strop. The process of touching up an edge is easily completed in under a minute.

[CENTER]CONTINUED BELOW[/CENTER]
vivi
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#2

Post by vivi »

[CENTER]Convex Edges[/CENTER]

This is the method I've adopted in favor of what you see above.


[CENTER]Convex Reprofiling[/CENTER]

I begin the same way I did before. I regrind the edge using a DMT XX course, but this time I stop with a microbevel left. Then I give it some passes over the DMT fine to remove the worst scratches. I do this because I find it works faster than reprofiling with low grit sandpaper, and I get the same results.

The angles I use are similar to the V edges. Very thin. Sometimes a little thicker or thinner depending on what the knife is to do, but never thicker than 8 or 10 degrees per side.

[CENTER]
Convexing and Refining The Edge[/CENTER]

Starting here, begins the actual convexing. I take 600 grit sandpaper and tape it to a mousepad, then lay that on the edge of my second desk. I use moderate pressure and edge trailing strokes, and grind at the secondary bevel until the microbevel is gone and the secondary bevel is convexed from edge to where it turns into the primary grind. This only takes a few minutes.

From here, I use 1000 and 2000 the same way as the 600. I grind at the secondary bevel until the scratches from the previous grit is gone, and each step I take care to remove any easily noticeable burr before moving to a higher grit.


[CENTER]Sharpening The Convex Edge[/CENTER]

Once I'm at 2000 and the bevel looks good, I use very light pressure and only 1/3 the length of the mousepad for about 3-5 strokes per side, taking much care to keep the knife steady and at the proper angle. I then strop the knife 5-10 strokes per side using edge trailing strokes. I check to make sure the edge can easily push cut into receipt paper and pop off arm hairs throughout the entire edge.


[CENTER]Image

This is an example of the convexed edge when it's done. On this particular knife I went quick and didn't fully polish it and I left the tip thicker because I plan to be rough with this knife. Still, this gives you an idea of how the reprofiled edges look after they're "prettied up." Not as rough as the X Course scratches in the knives above.[/CENTER]


I want to end this post that I've noticed some people on here seem less than confident about their sharpening abilities. My opinion is that if you have enough sense to buy and use a Spyderco and come here to discuss them, you have enough sense to maintain the edge of your blade. If you haven't given sharpening a real effort and don't want to mess up a nicer knife, buy one of the small stainless Byrds or a Swiss Army knife to practice on. They grind easily and will run you less than 20$ for certain models.

A few years ago I didn't know anything about sharpening. I taught myself by reading posts at bladeforums and trying what I read. When I heard of a technique I hadn't tried, I'd test it out and use whichever produced the best results. I'm sure there are still better ways than what I've found, but I'm happy with how my edges are cutting at the moment. Always room for improvement though. :)
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ChapmanPreferred
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Interesting reading.

#3

Post by ChapmanPreferred »

Thanks for sharing your method. It is always interesting to see how other people addicted to sharpness feed their cravings.

Take care,

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#4

Post by tkdman41 »

Great and in-depth information. thank you.
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#5

Post by imatyssik »

Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
It is really helpful. :)
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#6

Post by Joshua J. »

Excellent info Vivi. Now if only we could convince Sal to put a six degree (per side) edge bevel on the ZDP Caly 3 from the factory.
We'd have quite a few more darksiders if that were ever to happen.

As for thick edge bevels, they are nice when clearing trails. You will hit rocks, and a thick bevel limits the damage, thus making repair that much easier.
It doesn't have to be dull either. with enough polish a forty degree (per side) edge can shave quite nicely.
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jezabel
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#7

Post by jezabel »

Thanks for the great post. There is lot of good info here.
I don't own a Sharpmaker yet, but with some patience and practice I've taught myself (with the help of threads like this) in the past 6 months to sharpen freehand using bench stones. I'm now getting good consistent results, I also find this very satisfying and somewhat therapeutic.
This morning I re profiled my D2 para down to a nice thin edge (couldn't tell you to what degree). My basic benchmark for sharp is that knife must shave arm hair easily. Any way you should have seen the look on my face as the I whittled arm hair for the first time :D . Now who was it that said D2 was hard to sharpen?
I'll be reading up on your convex grind methods, as I have a a couple of blades which could use a convex edge...

Thanks for sharing the knowledge around.
Cheers Jez
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gunmike1
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#8

Post by gunmike1 »

Great post Vivi. Lots of good info for newbies and experienced sharpeners as well. I still prefer microbevels on really thin backbevels as I can get hair whittling edges in a minute or two, but convexing looks like it can work real efficiently as well. Thanks for the post.

Mike
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SecSpyral
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#9

Post by SecSpyral »

wow, thanks for the great read
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#10

Post by Zdenek »

Thank you for interesting tips on sharpening.
I revive the edge of my knives by means of Spyderco triangles only.
Zdenek

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vivi
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#11

Post by vivi »

Joshua J. wrote:As for thick edge bevels, they are nice when clearing trails. You will hit rocks, and a thick bevel limits the damage, thus making repair that much easier.
It doesn't have to be dull either. with enough polish a forty degree (per side) edge can shave quite nicely.
Not too many rocks around here. I wouldn't be too happy if I hit one with my Forester. :p

Your point on thick edges is a good one. There seems to be a misconception with some that hair whittling sharpness means razor thin edges, which doesn't have to be the case. The stock grind Endura ZDP189 for example was thick, but very sharp.
jezabel wrote:Thanks for the great post. There is lot of good info here.
I don't own a Sharpmaker yet, but with some patience and practice I've taught myself (with the help of threads like this) in the past 6 months to sharpen freehand using bench stones. I'm now getting good consistent results, I also find this very satisfying and somewhat therapeutic.
This morning I re profiled my D2 para down to a nice thin edge (couldn't tell you to what degree). My basic benchmark for sharp is that knife must shave arm hair easily. Any way you should have seen the look on my face as the I whittled arm hair for the first time :D . Now who was it that said D2 was hard to sharpen?
I'll be reading up on your convex grind methods, as I have a a couple of blades which could use a convex edge...

Thanks for sharing the knowledge around.
Cheers Jez
CPMD2 takes a wonderful edge. I have a queen folder in regular D2 and it easily gets hair whittling sharp, but the CPM version really impressed me with how easily it takes such a keen edge. It's a great steel.

gunmike1 wrote:Great post Vivi. Lots of good info for newbies and experienced sharpeners as well. I still prefer microbevels on really thin backbevels as I can get hair whittling edges in a minute or two, but convexing looks like it can work real efficiently as well. Thanks for the post.

Mike
With the convex edges like that Scrapyard fixed blade, when they get too dull for the strop to take care of, all that's really needed is a few swipes on 2000 grit per side and it's good to go again. Not much of a time difference between the two methods when it comes to touch-ups. To me the main advantages of the convex edge is I don't have to periodically regrind the back bevel or convex the back bevel into the primary grind like I used to do.
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#12

Post by TheGrandEnigma »

Thanks for the info, that will help me in my endevours :D
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#13

Post by Crocodilo »

Great thread, loads of usefull info!

I myself am also working on my freehand techniques. But those serrated Millies are quite a chalenge and I am a bit afraid to damage them with my tentative efforts... Any advice on restoing and improving serrated edges (without reprofiling)?
:spyder: 7 Millies, 4 Paras, 2 Calys, 2 Enduras, 1 Chinook, 1 Manix, 1 Delica, 1 UKPK, 1 Tasman, 1 D'fly
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#14

Post by Josh K »

Crocodilo wrote:Great thread, loads of usefull info!

I myself am also working on my freehand techniques. But those serrated Millies are quite a chalenge and I am a bit afraid to damage them with my tentative efforts... Any advice on restoing and improving serrated edges (without reprofiling)?
Spyderco sharpmaker would be your best bet. If you still want to "free hand" it, buy the Profile set (one medium, one fine, leather sheath) and hone by hand.
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#15

Post by Fred Sanford »

Hey bud,

I very much appreciate you taking the time to do this article and take the pictures. This will be a big help for me. I tried my first shot at convexing a blade on my Victorinox Farmer a couple days ago due to this thread. The thing is crazy sharp. I wasn't so sure about convexing an edge until after using my farmer. Dang. :eek: I used 600 grit and 1000 grit and a good thick mousepad. I was also surprised at how nice and polished my SAK blade was. It would seem that it would help it to glide through stuff with way less friction too.

I have a green ZDP-189 Delica 4 coming my way that I may just go ahead and try to make the grind better. Or.....it may go to Tom Krein. :D

Thanks Vivi!
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#16

Post by spoonrobot »

Crocodilo wrote:Any advice on restoing and improving serrated edges (without reprofiling)?
A mousepad + 1000/2000 grit sandpaper (in the auto section at Wal*Mart) + heavy pressure. This works excellently.
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#17

Post by vivi »

Here's my ZDP189 Caly Jr. a few days since it's last sharpening. Gotta love that ZDP.

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=23hod2s&s=5
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#18

Post by Projek »

Vivi wrote:Here's my ZDP189 Caly Jr. a few days since it's last sharpening. Gotta love that ZDP.

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=23hod2s&s=5
Thanks for all your help Vivi I was the one that asked you because I saw your videos in Youtube. Now I am going to try your methods on my UKPK see if I can get it to your level of sharpness if not I will send it to Tom Krein to get some expert help.

Again thanks for taking the time and write this thread. :)
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First time re-profiling...

#19

Post by Pneumothorax »

This is related and not related to OP. I just finished reprofiling my new Rookie. I found that my sharpmaker only hit the shoulder, so I decided to reprofile to 30 degrees back bevel using sharpmaker diamond rods and then putting on a new 40 edge. Great idea, but it took me probably around 500 strokes to get the new 30 back bevel...Im thinking thats way too long/I'm doing something wrong and the DMX coarse stone Vivi uses would work faster??

Question is how do you maintain the angle? I only use the sharpmaker and am now dependent on it to keep the angle right...it took me probably about 3 hours total to reprofile and get it shaving and paper cutting sharp. I almost gave up, but I had to figure it out for the experience. Any tips from you guys would be appreciated. I cannot and will not go through that to reprofile again. I have a Case Seahorse that needs reprofiling, but Im not going to tackle that until I have a better/faster technique...
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#20

Post by Fred Sanford »

I use a coarse DMT to reprofile. I do it all freehand so I don't know specific angles. I do know however that as long as I make each side about 14-18 degrees then I can put a 20 degree angle on the very edge (each side). Makes touch ups easier.

Without the DMT it would take me forever to do a reprofile. With the DMT it takes about 30 minutes total.
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