My Thoughts on The Chinese Spydies

[The Deacon]

Jeff, it's your money and you have every right to spend it however you see fit. But do you seriously believe that if China were vaporized tomorrow, that even one of those jobs would come back to the USA? There are at least a half dozen other countries champing at the bit to be the next place to go for cheap manufacturing, all the loss of China would accomplish would be to sent the work to one or more of them.

I'm not carrying a Tenacious myself, but that's not because of where it's built, or the steel it uses, it's because it's a right handed liner lock. But I was quite impressed by its quality. I can honestly say that if the folks who built it could turn out a G-10 version of the Stretch II at that same level of quality, I'd carry one. Well, ok, I might customize it a bit, but I'd carry it. :D

[J Smith]

Regs should be put in place to bring some of those jobs back.
Most of you are not seeing the harm yet and it took a while before it got to where I saw it.The problem is climbing the latter everyday.There are counties around me right now where 80 % of there population is out of work or driving 100 miles a day round trip for work.Don't know if he was telling the truth but someone working in a gas station told me last week that he was driving 60 miles a day to work...in a gas station.
I am not saying the quality is not good,I am saying that if enough people stopped buying imported goods the companies that made them would have to change where they are making them.I have no problem buying from countries that have an economy close to ours but not from ones that are so much under the line that it kills people here.Wal Mart has the saying "live better-pay less"or something like that.Fine I guess but I am seeing more and more people that can not afford to buy the cheap imported stuff.
Where does it all stop?
Also what happens when the economy in China comes up so much that those goods cost as much as the ones made here,the cost of their products are going up all the time.The drug providers for my son was talking about how they could not buy all the little give away nic nacs that they give away at the meeting they put on because of how much the price has gone up.

[sal]

Hi J,

I'm not disagreeing with you on jobs. The answer, in my opinion, is to build in America. More companies from more industries need to bite the bullet and build here. Period.

It's difficult to boycott China, there are many products that are no longer made here. They have to be built here before people can buy American.

Also the Chinese quality/dollar is, at this time, hard to fight.

Small efficient manufacturing companies in America will be needed for transition.

There are still a number of knife makers in America. They may bring in Chinese imports as well, but sometimes you have to fight fire with fire to compete.

Just don't close the doors and import. Yes, it's more effort and less profit to competitively built here, but it is a long term investment in our country.

sal

[kimjune01]

Perhaps America can pay back China by getting them to buy Spydercos(or other American products). Also, less consumption is a good way to help because the overconsumption of products(imported or not) by Americans have contributed to the bad economy greatly.

[awlriteeden]

IMHO demand for crappy products must go DOWN. Too many people buy POS knives, flashlights, or other gadgets for their looks and price, without giving any thought to the function or materials used in these products. Less unnecessary spending and an overall increase in demand for higher quality products should go a long way towards reducing bad credit in America.

I love products that are cheap and high in quality for the price, but I'll admit that buying something made in the USA still has a certain....romantic bias going for it? Disregarding the price, I think most people (at least those I know) would choose to buy something made in America rather than China, and this applies to Chinese people too. American businesses should capitalize on this as much as possible.

[RIOT]

undereducated people buy cheap crap!

[quattrokid73]

Sal,

I just wanted to say that being on this forum and reading your posts has given me a great insight into the world of business and it's helped me greatly in my endeavors as a product designer.

Obviously there is tension with China but there is a time and a place for everything, and business with them that creates better knives at lower prices is business I can agree with.

[dialex]

These are some very interesting thoughts Mr. Glesser and guys, thanks for sharing.

Quality is a question of materials (which are chosen by the client), of technology (which China possesses) and of quality control (which also depends on how much the client is willing to pay). It is easy to say that we should all buy only quality products and they'll stop making crap.
Unfortunately, the world became just like in Thomas Malthus' predictions. Quality products are more expensive and not everyone affords them.

[lamarrk]

Here it is

Thanks for posting the web site. Unfortunately it says: Out of Stock Online


Lamarr

[Doc Pyres]

In a country like China, with 1.6 billion people and literally hundreds of thousands of factories, it can be difficult to make generalizations about quality control, economic and environmental impact, etc. For example, the Pearl River Delta area of southern China alone has at least 70,000 factories employing 10 million workers. The majority of these factories are Hong Kong or Taiwan owned. The benefits of the manufacturing boom for the average worker in China are relative, and the environmental cost is extremely high. Even with strict environmental regulations from Beijing in place, it is very difficult to enforce those regulations on a local level. And the cost to the environment must be borne by us all. These problems are by no means unique to outsourcing in China, but the scale of Chinese industry makes it the most significant example. An excellent read on this complex issue is Elizabeth C. Economy's book "The River Runs Black." http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0801489 ... eader-link

[Sam Vimes]

I can honestly say that if the folks who built it could turn out a G-10 version of the Stretch II at that same level of quality, I'd carry one.

That would be fantastic. The prospect of a Spydie hunting knife along similar lines to the Ocelot, Impala or Stretch but made in China and priced appropriately would see me buying several.

[sal]

Hi Quattrokid,

I learn much here as well.

sal

------------------------------------------------------------------

We are all teachers and we are all students.

[huugh]

You are a smart young man. Take a step back and look at a bigger picture. China is a better trading partner than Iran, or Chaves-usalia. With our help, they will grow as a trading partner. Their Yuan will appreciate so trade is more fair and they will try to help make the world a better place.

Certainly a brighter future than Bin Laden and his ilk are seeking.

sal

Very nicely said Sal.
It is proven economic concept that with free trade (or in terms closer to the reality: removing trade barriers (even the European Union concept of one market (intra-communitary trade) is not completly "free trade", as, unfortunately, many subventions to local (i.e. from local country) producers are still in place)) the well-being of all participants increase and with this also increases quality of life (including democracy and human rights) (if you ask why: because people first aim to fulfill their basic needs: food, housing, health care etc., and only after those they start to worry about freedom of speech etc.).

[huugh]

You guys can buy all the China imports you want.
I will not,I think you will start seeing many more not wanting them.I guess it is nice that the Chinese have jobs that they like while so many in this country are losing theirs to these imports.I work in a field that is not affected by these imports except for the fact that so many people are out of work and that cuts sales.I have been in this field of work for 13 years and it is the worst it has ever been.I go to small cities all over and see one after another of factory sitting empty that were running strong just a few years ago.The Dell computer company that my wives aunt works for is about to move to Mexico so she will be job hunting.Only thing left around her area is min wage jobs after Dell leaves.

This "loosing" jobs to country with lower costs (and bear in mind, lower costs do NOT equal to lower labor costs - what you need to look at is called PRODUCTIVITY. If you pay your employee $100 a day because he is able to make for you say 1000 units, it is better for you than paying your employee $50 a day if he can't produce atleast 500 units) is completly natural proccess. Preventing such "losses" is harmful to your economy, as you are loosing much more in consumer surplus and dead weight losses (=trade barriers or subventions) than what you get in producer surplus.

If a country can't even out lower costs in other country by higher productivity, then it should focus on doing something else, something it can be competitive in. For developed countries are typical hi-tech industries or industries with high added value instead of labor intensive industries because there are high labor costs. You can compensate for it by increasing your productivity (advanced machinery, automated production lines etc (e.g. Japan made cars - high labor costs, but also high productivity).

If you aren't competitive you can not survive in the market. Trying to "protect" your uncompetitive industries will harm you instead of helping you.
You have to realize, that stubbornly doing something you are not very good at, means wasting your resources which could be utilized better (= more efficiently) for something you are good at (e.g. if you are good at making cars, for example you can make 100 cars a day, or 10 computers a day, and your neighbor is good at making computers, for example he can make 10 cars a day or 50 computers a day, then why should he make cars and you computers? It's illogical.).

(FYI China is starting to experience the same thing with labor costs - there are even lower labor costs in countries like Bangladesh or Vietnam, and that's where are now moving the cost-oriented producers.)


But as Doc Pyres correctly stated we should be concerned with environmental damage caused by China. That is part of why China has lower costs (and this time NOT labor costs). I doubt anyone can force China to regulate the pollution, so we can only hope they start to do so because they will be the first to feel the ill effects.
The problem is that environmental questions are either disregarded as unimportant or it is said that (often, but not exclusively, developing) countries can't afford to control the pollution.

[wec12]

Hm... It really depends on the company monitoring the QC of the products made in China. Trust me, at least one part of your desktop/laptop is made in China/Taiwan and your desktop/laptop is still functioning well, isn't it? :rolleyes: