S30V chipping issues

[Ben325e]

Hey guys,

I bought a spyderco native just after christmas @ walmart, because I was really wanting to try S30V, and I'm a fan of straight edge knives, so it fit the bill nicely.
About a month later, I noticed some small chipping issues, after I cut a few zip-ties that were on some new silverware we had bought. I was very careful with the knife ( I baby everything I have....) and I'm sure that I didn't accidentally hit the silverware with it. Just to be sure I checked every piece of new silverware for dents or gouges, and there were none. I figure that S30V, touted for it's toughness, would be able to leave a dent in silverware if the silverware had chipped it. So, I chalked it up to bad luck and I resharpened the blade.
On knifeforums.com, quite a few other people had issues with S30V microchipping, and they said the way to avoid it was to get the edge super refined. I sharpened the knife on an Edge Pro, using all of the stones, the 7 micron polishing tapes, and finished up with a bunch of strokes on a strop that I made just for the occasion, 3'' by 11'' horsehide leather loaded with 0.5 chromium oxide, and I made about 100 passes per side, until I couldn't see any more scratches under 100x magnification.
Here we are, yet another month later. This morning I changed my oil in my car, and my funnel was missing. No biggie, I just poured in one quart of oil, and got my native out and cut the bottom off of the oil bottle, so that I can use the the first quart bottle as a funnel for the other 4 quarts. Other than cutting off hangnails and the like, this is probably the toughest work that my knife has seen yet! (I'm a college student, and due to the weapons policy, my knife spends most of it's time in my sock drawer...) Lo and behold, the edge is chipped again! There are about seven chips on the belly of the blade, and the very very tip is broken off.
I'm not abusing this knife by any means. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but it must be something. The first time this happened, I emailed spyderco customer service, and I was told that they were unfamiliar with this happening with S30V at all, and that was the steel that they used on all the knives made in Golden CO. If anyone else has seen this happen, please email spyderco so they can be aware of the issue....
I would just sharpen the knife again, but that's the whole point of having bought s30v in the first place - the durability of the steel. But I can't even cut zip-ties and plastic jugs with it!
I bought this knife because of the straight edge, but it seems like this spyderco is just **** bent on being serrated anyway...

Anyone else experienced this, too? Jerry Hossom and Mike Stewart both have seen issues with S30V like this (don't know who they are? they make fantastic knives... i.e. Mike Stewart makes Bark River knives... )

I really like the size and shape, basically everything, about the native, I'm just not a fan of the steel. I would trade my s30v native for a vg10 native anyday!.....

What should I do?

Thanks,,
Ben

(just search s30v chipping on Knifeforums.com and you can see a ton of posts on it... )

[markg]

Chipping issues with S30V are well documented, as you point out. In most cases a sharpening will take care of the issue. I too, had some chipping issues with my Native.

I would take two routes... Since you have an Edgepro (which is a fantastic sharpener from what I hear) experiment with a different angle. See if that helps.

Most people find the chipping settles down in time, however if it continues, it might be a heat treat issue, and I would send the knife back in to Spyderco.

You can get the Native in VG-10, in the Native III.

[JohnyKwst]

What angle did you sharpen the Native at on your Edge Pro? Did you remove a lot of material? Did you have a heavy burr while sharpening it? You should not need a super polished edge to prevent chipping on S30v. I think the issue is rather, if you have a very coarse edge you may experience chipping. Obvoiusly this is not the reason for your chipping in this case since you polished the edge but I think your chipping may be due to a wire edge from a heavy burr that was never fully removed. In any case you can try giving it another good sharpening and the chipping should stop, if not you may have to ask spyderco about it.

[LowTEC]

Hey guys,

The first time this happened, I emailed spyderco customer service, and I was told that they were unfamiliar with this happening with S30V at all, and that was the steel that they used on all the knives made in Golden CO. If anyone else has seen this happen, please email spyderco so they can be aware of the issue....

I'm surprised Spyderco gave you such reply. I never had such problem with my S30V but I would suggestion you to use a different angle. If you were using 30 inclusive then you may try 40 inclusive instead. I had both 154CM and 8CR13MOV (or whatever the name is) chipping like you mentioned and I changed them to 40 inclusive degree than the problem solved. I wish you luck and have the problem solved :cool:

[bh49]

There were several threads on bladeforums regading chipping S30V due to improper heat-treating or final grinding of the edge couple years ago.
I bought Native at Walmart little over two years ago and it is chipped. I tried sharpen it on sharpmaker, but it was only getting gull and with 10X lens I saw more chipping on the edge. I returned it and received a replacement, which chipped after I cut two hollow plastic pins. Cliff Stamp advised me to use the groove of sharpmaker rod to cut into stone and remove more fatiged steel before sharpen this knife. So I cut into stone, put primary edge at 30 degrees and than microedge at 40. No problem since than, great knife. I love it's ergo and steel. Try to remove some steel before you sharpen, also I am not sure that you need to polish S30V up 7 micron.

[Slick]

I have a number of Waly-World Natives and have learned to live with the chippiness of S30V. Not only do I accept the chippiness, I embrace it an intrinisic aspect of that steel.

I do not polish my Native edges, and if I do I polish the edge I finish by going back a stone or two courser for the last few passes. It is non-intuitive but works for me. Hard pressure cutting seems to cause 'divots' of steel to pop out of the surface at the edge. These micro-serations will cut almost forever. Eventually I have to resharpen but the chipping edge seems to act as a self renewing edge.

If you want a shaving sharp edge go VG-10. It polishes like a razor but can not keep cutting like S30V.

Different flavors of steel for different uses but all are good if well heat treated.

I also use an EdgePro. Back off a degree and rough up that final bevel. Experiment. Have fun. Waste time. Whatever.

[Cliff Stamp]

On knifeforums.com, quite a few other people had issues with S30V microchipping, and they said the way to avoid it was to get the edge super refined.

This is misinformation, a high polish can induce more chipping. The polish used on the edge should be optomized to the type of work. Push cutting requires a higher polish, slicing or draw cuts require a more coarse edge. S30V is a high carbide steel, it is not a tough steel, for stainless or otherwise. However it should not chip out as badly as often noted. In a lot of cases it seems to be do to damaged metal right at the very edge as it goes away in a few sharpenings. If it does not then return it as the knife is defective.

-Cliff

[mrappraisit]

Cliff Stamp advised me to use the groove of sharpmaker rod to cut into stone and remove more fatiged steel before sharpen this knife. So I cut into stone, put primary edge at 30 degrees and than microedge at 40. No problem since than, great knife. I love it's ergo and steel. Try to remove some steel before you sharpen, also I am not sure that you need to polish S30V up 7 micron.

This is misinformation, a high polish can induce more chipping. The polish used on the edge should be optomized to the type of work. Push cutting requires a higher polish, slicing or draw cuts require a more coarse edge. S30V is a high carbide steel, it is not a tough steel, for stainless or otherwise. However it should not chip out as badly as often noted. In a lot of cases it seems to be do to damaged metal right at the very edge as it goes away in a few sharpenings. If it does not then return it as the knife is defective.

-Cliff

Ben, Just like Bh, I too followed Cliffs advice about "cutting into the stone" and it works very well. You have to use some patience with this method because once you destroy the micro edge by cutting in, you almost have to start from scratch. With this method I have found that the result is an edge that stays usable for a long time. Good luck.

[Cliff Stamp]

If sharpening is taking a little too long, almost always it is because too fine a grit is being used. Shape the bevel with an x-coarse stone and only micro-bevel with the finer stones. Don't worry about "using up" the knife, even if you sharpened extremely aggressively it still takes 1-3 years to really wear a knife down and that is about 5-10 cents a day.

I gave my brother a serrated salt awhile back and once a year I have had to recut the serrations with a dremel because he actually wore them to being rounded off. If you are a really heavy user then once a year you might have to do something similar with plain edge knives, get the primary grind reworked.

But this takes drastic use and you are probably better off (unless you can do it yourself) to just sell the knife used at 25-50% of cost and buy a new one, again just pennies a day. Plus you get to keep trying new models.

-Cliff

[thombrogan]

I had to recut the serrations on my Atlantic Salt, too. I used the diamond hones on the Sharpmaker, though.

My Native; pre-Wally Wold, still S30V; would chip when I took the angle too low, but then I thinned out the back bevel as much as sanity and handtool would allow and gave it a relatively thick edge. The edge is thick enough to resist chipping and rolling and the back bevel is thin enough to still let it cut.

Good stuff, but I prefer VG-10, AUS-8, AUS-6, 420HC, ZDP-189, SG-2, M2, D2, 1095, 1080, S7, 52100, 5160, MBS-26/VG-10/19C27, AEB-L/13C26, 12C27, 12C27M, 1070, Aogami Super, Shiroko, SK-4/W1, INFI, N690Co, 440A, and Victorinox to it. It's definitely a top-30 steel!

[stoneman]

I had a similar problem with my mini-manix. Never cut anything harsher than a cardboard box (no staples, I checked after) and I had two chips in the blade. I must admit I'm a litlle behind the curve around here with knife and steel terminology but I wouldn't call what happened micro-chipping. One of the little buggers broke off halfway to where the bevel starts (shoulders? :confused: ). Didn't bother to sharpen it out, 'cause it'll get there eventually and it's my work user, but it was disappointing none the less after hearing nothing but good things about s30v.

[Grey Mullet]

It's good at cutting rope or cardboard, but if you hit something hard like a staple or a glass bottle with the edge it's going to chip much more easily than a tougher steel like VG-10.

[bladese97]

:spyder: :spyder: :cool: :spyder: :spyder: First off, Welcome to forums :cool: As for your issue, I have many S30V blades, and use most for hard use applications, and have had no issues. Maybe you can reprofile it, or have someone do it. Use the course stone first until it reastablishes a utility edge, and then hit it with the fine :D This should work :)