"Tenacious" model

[Bolster]

So the big question I have for you Bolstermanic...are you gonna get rid of all your Fenix flashlights to make your flashlight collection China-free as well? Is a knife or product made in Taiwan acceptable for you to purchase?...I was just curious as to where you draw the line when it comes to purchasing goods that are made in China :confused:

I'll answer that barbed question. I am on a relatively new quest to divest myself of the many low quality and "copy" Chinese goods I have purchased over the years. There was a time I paid no attention to where a product was manufactured, only the cost/benefit ratio. In the last couple of months, particularly after the lead-in-toys incident & poisoned pet-food incident (I have both pets and kids), I have been checking items for country of manufacture, and if I can buy an equivalent product (even at a higher price) I will leave the Chinese product on the shelf.

However, if the Chinese product is the highest quality/performance item I can find, I will buy it. I've made an exception for Fenix lights, because here the Chinese are the current innovators...they have developed the hot new LED emitter technology...to my knowledge, no other nation (with the possible exception of Korea) can touch the Chinese in terms of emitter lumens at efficient energy usage. I love the Zebralight I just purchased...it is also Chinese manufacture. It is a quality item, and I don't know of any headlamp that can compete with it.

So in a nutshell, my rule is...if merely less expensive, or a copy, then no. If the Chinese are the innovators and "own" the category with quality products, then yes. (Was that the bigoted answer you were looking for?)

So, no Tenacious for me. I can purchase something as good or better from Spyderco's other offerings. If Spyderco went to China to produce their very best knives, and the Chinese made the best available steel, that would be a different story. But they didn't...they went to China to produce a less expensive, market-competitive knife. I don't happen to be the demographic that strategy targets.

[sal]

This has really been an interesting and educational subject / thread for me, and probably many others. It's a controversial issue. It's interesting to see many go through the same thought processes and conclusions that we did.

In the end it's a compromise, trying to determine the best path and then to follow that path.

Our maker in China was specially selected and many prototypes were made before we were satisfied that the market (you) would accept the design and build quality.

I'd like to thank all of you for your opinions and suggestions. There is no real "right or wrong", more a case of growth and learning. We have no intention to "move" our production to China, or anywhere else. We will certainly continue to offer our "in-house" & custom designs made by our excellent makers in Seki, Golden, Taiwan and Italy.

We appreciate your involvement in our business decisions and your support.

sal

[JspyEDC]

just saw that spydieguys have lots of tenacious-es on the 'bay, although IMHO, prices are a little too close to MSRP to merit an early purchase.

(BTW this is NOT an advertisement; i figure, why pay the extra cash instead of waiting an extra week or two?)

wonder how long it will be until more dealers have them, and are selling them at more competitive prices?

Kind of a rule of thumb:

The lower the MSRP, the closer to retail price a knife usually sells for. That's why you see Civilian's selling for 10% above cost, and many Byrd knives selling at 75-80% of retail.

That said, I don't see the Tenacious model selling for a "street price" of $30 or even $33.00. It's too good a product. Wait till you have one in your pocket, and when you see the part-serrated version.....

[jaislandboy]

thanks for the candid reply Bolstermanic :)

[D-Roc]

just saw that spydieguys have lots of tenacious-es on the 'bay, although IMHO, prices are a little too close to MSRP to merit an early purchase.

(BTW this is NOT an advertisement; i figure, why pay the extra cash instead of waiting an extra week or two?)

wonder how long it will be until more dealers have them, and are selling them at more competitive prices?

The prices seem more than reasonable- I saw one on the knifecenter for 31.95- or are they more than that?
Think I'll get me one soon... :cool:

[JBE]

The prices seem more than reasonable- I saw one on the knifecenter for 31.95- or are they more than that?
Think I'll get me one soon... :cool:

I've also noticed several other reputable online dealers "pre"-advertising the Tenacious in the $30-$35 range.

[Agent Starling]

As I read this thread I'm thinking that I'd do better to support the US economy by buying an American car, than by buying an American knife...a knife is a drop in the bucket in comparison...there, now I've justified the Tenacious, I've gotta get one! :D

Agent Starling

[JBE]

As I read this thread I'm thinking that I'd do better to support the US economy by buying an American car, than by buying an American knife...a knife is a drop in the bucket in comparison...there, now I've justified the Tenacious, I've gotta get one! :D

Agent Starling

Too bad that "American" car is produced using a lot of overseas manufactured parts... :p

[clovisc]

Kind of a rule of thumb:

The lower the MSRP, the closer to retail price a knife usually sells for. That's why you see Civilian's selling for 10% above cost, and many Byrd knives selling at 75-80% of retail.

That said, I don't see the Tenacious model selling for a "street price" of $30 or even $33.00. It's too good a product. Wait till you have one in your pocket, and when you see the part-serrated version.....

an interesting thought, but New Graham has the PE and CE in at $31.25 a pop... that's all that matters to me... best combination of price and service that suits my taste.

seen the part-serrated version... as with most CE blades, won't be getting it. again, a personal decision.

[jaislandboy]

the fully serrated version looks great though
http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store ... ?s=SP122GS

[Michael Cook]

:spyder: That is affordable, gonna need to get a pe and se. :spyder:

[jaislandboy]

:spyder: That is affordable, gonna need to get a pe and se. :spyder:

yeah Michael, i like to think of it as another Lil' Temp that most folks can afford :cool:

[Simona]

Why not...at the end by next ten years will probably exist few product only, where´s lettering "Made in USA" :D
All from USA is slowly moved to China or somewhere to Asia.
What a degradation...****! where´s Bullit´s America now??! :D
Our holy Levi´s "Made in USA" are now Made in China or Vietnam!! and no one have interest to Mao or Saigon junk´s :D


I hope and believe this is NOT case of :spyder:

But globally, speaking no knives now, I can understand, it´s easiest go to China, that search way like marketing + ads + new markets, not only in US, but in Europe or rest of world.
Result is, unfortunately, that a lot of (formerly very good) american products are now on lowest rail of ladder, because all is "Made Somewhere in Asia"

I hope (and I wish) Tenacious model will be very succesfull on US market, somewhere in china malls like Walmart and etc. for peoples who want solid product for solid price and Spyderco get good income of it and they develope more models made in Usa or Japan.

[sal]

Hi Simona,

"****" is a good word.

It is a challenging time to be in the knife making business. Most of the major factories are making their knives in China now.

I will say that we're constantly improving and buying new equipment for our USA factory in Golden. The plan is to make more Golden models, not less.

The Tenacious model was created to compete with particular products in particular markets. Markets that we cannot supply with our current resources in Seki and Golden. Markets that are being supplied by our competitors.

sal

[ozspyder]

Sal,

I think it is a great move, maybe from your POV is was a difficult decision, but I dare say with most manufacturing these days the value of the dollar when considered in bulk does indeed make a helluva lot of difference. At the end of the day if you can compete in other sgments of the market it means that you can live to fight another day..... and that is a good thing for all us AFIs.

It also keeps the other companies honest and on their toes. This is a good thing for all in the knife industry because as consumers we get great developements as more money can be spent on R&D :D

Best of luck for the Tenacious and other models in 2008. The view from here seems very positive indeed and IMHO 2008 will be a great Spydie year :p

Cheers
Dan

[jaislandboy]

Well stated Dan.... I'd rather see Spyderco do what it needs to do to "stay afloat" and competitive....that way the Afi's/knifenuts who log onto these forums can continue to get their Mule Teams to play with :D

[Marion David Poff]

Hey Sal,

Thanks for giving us the skinny on the whole thing.....

As usual, your breakdown of the situation includes all the facts.

Many have said much..... So, I will keep my comments brief.

I will buy one, I try to buy things not made in Communist/Socialist countries, but now adays it can be pretty tough.

It is a great looking knife, I can definitely see y'all's hand on it.

I think that I am most impressed with the way that you did everything in your power to avoid this solution. Speaks to character, if you ask me.

And if it allows you to do Mule Teams, Sages and all the rest of the really creative stuff we like, good on you.

Marion David Poff

[Daniel]

I would like to see the catalog state the country of origin.

I noticed that the models made in Golden are identified in the catalog which is helpful. However, I think that it would be beneficial in making a purchase decision if it also stated Seki, Taiwan, China, India, or Pakistan.

I would like to know where the stuff is made on the front side.

[FastEddie]

I just got a Tenacious and Spyderco definitely has a winner on it's hands! Great fit, finish and action; what more could you want?

ed

[tonydahose]

i just got 2 of them, the guys at the firehouse loved them, especialy for that price. i sold one already and have 2 other guys asking me to get them one each. Sal, i think you definitely have a model to compete WELL against all the other knives coming out of china.