Jot Singh Khalsa question

[Jay_Ev]

First off, let me apologize in advance if this has been asked before, I did follow proper protocol by using the "search" function but didn't find what I was looking for. The question is does anyone have any background information on the Khalsa (in particular the unusual location for the Spyderhole?) The round hole seems to be in this unusual position on the Gunting as well, but I am curious, on these two knives does it serve some kind of purpose? These are two knives that I wasn't too fond of initially, but have grown on me over time. (No, I don't own either, but I wish I did). Thanks in advance,

-Jay

[KaliGman]

The Spyderhole serves the same purpose on these knives as it does on every other Spyderco product with the hole--as a means of opening the blade. The Gunting was designed by Bram Frank as a self defense tool to be used both open and closed. The projection in which the hole is located is a "ramp" which can be used to strike an opponent, assist in pressure point techniques and control holds, and can be used to kinetically deploy the blade (grasp the handle as if you were holding an "open" knife, strike an opponent's limb with the ramp, and "snap" the blade is deployed and locked open--and your opponent has a nice smack upside the limb to think about :D ). For further information on the Gunting and its use you can check out "Bram Frank" on Youtube (I think some of his introductory video on the Lapu Lapu Corto--his new take on the Gunting--is still there) or Google "Bram Frank." Mr. Frank has a website which normally would have a lot of information on his knives and his martial system, http://www.cssdsc.com/ , but it is currently under construction. Mr. Frank has been on this forum recently and participated in a discussion of the Gunting and Lapu Lapu Corto, so he might chime in on this thread.

For what it is worth, the Gunting is one of my favorite Spydercos, I have five of them (two are trainers) and I use one of the trainers almost every time I instruct a Kali class.

[CombatGrappler]

You can use the "hump" on the Khalsa almost the same way as the ramp on the Gunting, but it is difficult since the hump is rounded. I was carrying my Khalsa the other day and the hump caught the edge of my pocket I was replacing it. The blade opened a little bit and I didn't notice. Luckily, it was my khakis that got the spyderbite and not my leg!

The Jot Singh Khalsa feels wonderful in the hand and is a great slicer. It is (for me) too expensive to EDC, but I break it out now and again just for light use.

Here is a copy of the promo poster for the knife. I wish I could remember who I snagged it from. Not sure if it was here or bladeforums. They get the credit!

[aj1985]

I too thought the gunting and the Khalsa were both quite similar, but Khalsa is for sure not desinged to be used as the same as the gunting.

The poster could be either from ebay or from Jdspydo. Those are only places I have seen the poster at.

I have always been trying to get this holy grail knife, but always been one step behind.

anyways take care

aj

[mrappraisit]

Jot Singh Kahlsa is a Sikh, with the Sikh religion being a militant (and very progressive at the same time) religion, the opening hole may have a similar dual use as the opening hole in the Gunting.
I was lucky enough to attend a Sikh wedding at a Gurdwara (temple) and the groom wears very traditional dress which includes a sword (typically a family heirloom). If you ever get invited to Sikh wedding I would highly recommend attending it's very interesting, and afterward you get to eats tons of awesome indian food. The Singh Khalsa :spyder: is beautiful knife enjoy it!

Edit: I didn't mean the opening hole in the Gunting, I meant the "post" above the opening hole.

[aj1985]

Jot Singh Kahlsa is a Sikh, with the Sikh religion being a militant (and very progressive at the same time) religion, the opening hole may have a similar dual use as the opening hole in the Gunting.
I was lucky enough to attend a Sikh wedding at a Gurdwara (temple) and the groom wears very traditional dress which includes a sword (typically a family heirloom). If you ever get invited to Sikh wedding I would highly recommend attending it's very interesting, and afterward you get to eats tons of awesome indian food. The Singh Khalsa :spyder: is beautiful knife enjoy it!

Edit: I didn't mean the opening hole in the Gunting, I meant the "post" above the opening hole.

Could you please explain what do you mean by militant religion exactly. Also it is Jot Singh Khalsa.

aj

[mrappraisit]

All apologies to Mr. Singh Khalsa. I am great at remembering names, not spelling them.
First I would like to explain that my business partner is a Sikh. To me having him a business partner means that I trust his judgement and respect him like a brother, after four years of getting to know him, his family and many of his Sikh, and Hindu friends I have a great respect and admiration for Indian culture. Sikhism, as described to me by several Sikh's, is "militant" and was originally established, at least in part, to stop the flow of Islam into India. This "defense" of India was actively taken up by Sikhs, and in the past many Sikhs did not shy away from military or guerilla means of enforcing India's sovereign borders.
The term "militant" is often though of as offensive or derogatory, but when I have asked the Sikhs I know about this they take pride in the fact that their forefathers felt so strongly about the defense of their homeland.
I am not, and do not claim to be, an expert on Sikhism. I am just a very lightly informed observer, whom has a great respect for the Sikh's that I know. The Sikhs that I know personally are some of the most generous, charitable and hard working people I have ever met. I am proud that they consider me a friend, and practically a family member.

Out of respect for the original poster, and this forum, I would ask that any more questions, concerns, or corrections (regarding my original post or reply) be sent to me by PM. I will make all efforts to answer any PM's in a timely fashion.

[aj1985]

All apologies to Mr. Singh Khalsa. I am great at remembering names, not spelling them.
First I would like to explain that my business partner is a Sikh. To me having him a business partner means that I trust his judgement and respect him like a brother, after four years of getting to know him, his family and many of his Sikh, and Hindu friends I have a great respect and admiration for Indian culture. Sikhism, as described to me by several Sikh's, is "militant" and was originally established, at least in part, to stop the flow of Islam into India. This "defense" of India was actively taken up by Sikhs, and in the past many Sikhs did not shy away from military or guerilla means of enforcing India's sovereign borders.
The term "militant" is often though of as offensive or derogatory, but when I have asked the Sikhs I know about this they take pride in the fact that their forefathers felt so strongly about the defense of their homeland.
I am not, and do not claim to be, an expert on Sikhism. I am just a very lightly informed observer, whom has a great respect for the Sikh's that I know. The Sikhs that I know personally are some of the most generous, charitable and hard working people I have ever met. I am proud that they consider me a friend, and practically a family member.

Out of respect for the original poster, and this forum, I would ask that any more questions, concerns, or corrections (regarding my original post or reply) be sent to me by PM. I will make all efforts to answer any PM's in a timely fashion.

We started this here we might as well end it here :) . Overall I fully understand what you said and agree with it, but was confused by the bracket (and very progressive at the same time). I thought you meant it was militant at the time the knife was released. No worries I just misunderstood.

You know more history about the Sikhs than many Sikhs I know.

take care
aj
p.s You are bad at names. It is Mr. Khalsa, because Singh is a middle name :D

[jotkhalsa]

Hello All,
I'm Jot Singh Khalsa. Some years ago I designed a clipit for Spyderco after Sal Glesser invited me to do so. I made a custom liner lock folder with a jade handle and my damascus steel blade for his personal collection which I believe was quite similar in shape to the production version Spyderco produced. There were some problems and the C40 didn't last very long in production. Sal and I have spoken about reintroducing the knife with some modifications-but it seems to be on a "back burner."
FYI- I'm American and adopted the Sikh religion around 1973. I studied for over 30 years with a very wise man, Yogi Bhajan (yogibhajan.com) who was from Punjab (Northern India.) He spent much time teaching yoga and meditation worldwide and demonstrated honorable, courageous, kind and generous living. One of the tenets of the Sikh religion is to be a protector of the weak and innocent. Wearing a kirpan for many Sikhs is a reminder to do just that. I think calling Sikhism a militant religion is not an accurate portrayal. Throughout Sikh history (only about a 550 year old religion) there have been numerous occasions where Sikhs have answered the call of their Indian bretheren to protect them from religious oppressors. The Sikhs seemed always to be the ones willing to take up arms against these oppressors. I'm on the verge of producing a kirpan in Taiwan and China that we are working hard to make the highest quality and affordable kirpan that has ever been offered to Sikhs worldwide and collectors. The prototype I produced for production can be viewed at: http://khalsakirpans.com/kirpan_preview . We hope to be moving ahead with production in the next few months. Best to all of you. JSK

[aj1985]

Hello All,
I'm Jot Singh Khalsa. Some years ago I designed a clipit for Spyderco after Sal Glesser invited me to do so. I made a custom liner lock folder with a jade handle and my damascus steel blade for his personal collection which I believe was quite similar in shape to the production version Spyderco produced. There were some problems and the C40 didn't last very long in production. Sal and I have spoken about reintroducing the knife with some modifications-but it seems to be on a "back burner."
FYI- I'm American and adopted the Sikh religion around 1973. I studied for over 30 years with a very wise man, Yogi Bhajan (yogibhajan.com) who was from Punjab (Northern India.) He spent much time teaching yoga and meditation worldwide and demonstrated honorable, courageous, kind and generous living. One of the tenets of the Sikh religion is to be a protector of the weak and innocent. Wearing a kirpan for many Sikhs is a reminder to do just that. I think calling Sikhism a militant religion is not an accurate portrayal. Throughout Sikh history (only about a 550 year old religion) there have been numerous occasions where Sikhs have answered the call of their Indian bretheren to protect them from religious oppressors. The Sikhs seemed always to be the ones willing to take up arms against these oppressors. I'm on the verge of producing a kirpan in Taiwan and China that we are working hard to make the highest quality and affordable kirpan that has ever been offered to Sikhs worldwide and collectors. The prototype I produced for production can be viewed at: http://khalsakirpans.com/kirpan_preview . We hope to be moving ahead with production in the next few months. Best to all of you. JSK

Dear Jot it truly is an honor knowing that you are replying to the kirpan thread. This isn't that thread though, it is on the main page with the title.
Will Spyderco ever make a Kirpan (Collaboration time)


take care and once again thank you for replying

aj

[Mr Blonde]

I remember a podcast interview between Kelly Worden and Bob Taylor of the now defunct Round Eye Knife and Tool, in which mr. Taylor alluded to Jim Keating demonstrating the kinetic opening of the Spyderco Khalsa model and its MBC applications. It was even suggested that it was an inspiration for the Gunting. I'm not sure if there's any truth to to it, but it was interesting to hear about a link between the Khalsa and the Gunting anyway.

Wouter

[mrappraisit]

Dear Mr Khalsa,
Thank You for the response. I said militant religion I was repeating something I had read in National Geographic once. I did not mean it to be a slight, but as a description of their willingness to take up arms to defend their own values and land.
Again, thank you very much for you're input on this beautiful knife, you're traditional and non traditional designs are amazing.

[sal]

Hi Jot,

Welcome to the Spyderco forum. It is an honor and a pleasure to have you aboard. We'd love to have your input.

The maker that made the Spyderco "Khalsa" has retired, which means new maker and new tooling. With our other makers at capacity, the "Khalsa" had been on a back-burner.

We are now working with a new maker that we believe can maintain our quality level. New tooling for a model would be required anyway, so perhaps we can talk about a new "Khalsa". Maybe you can work with the experts here to create the ideal Spyderco Jot Khalsa collaboration design?

On the history: James Keating (an excellent MBC instructor) did a demonstration at the New York "Riddle of Steel" using the Spyderco Khalsa model. He showed strikes with the hump and kinetic opening using the hump. Bram (another excellent MBC instructor) was also teaching at that Riddle. He was also interested in the concept.

At the following Eugene show, Bob Taylor (also an excellent MBC instructor) called me aside to show me how to open a Khalsa using yhour opponent. He opened the knife on my chin :eek: . Yes, it was a bit intimidating, but I trust Bob's skill.

He said that he and Bram were going to make a new model with a dedicated design to further develop the use of the hump. Bram designed the "Escalator" model for Bob's company, (Round Eye Knife & Tool) to produce.

At the time, Spyderco and Round Eye were negotiating Spyderco's useage of the Rolling Lock, which was invented by Bob Taylor and Bob Brothers.

At the following James Keating "Riddle of Steel" in Idaho, I met Bram Frank.

He was demonstrating his new design, the "Escalator". I was quite impressed with Bram's idea, but there were quality issues with the model. I spoke with Bob Taylor about making the "Escalator" in Golden as an OEM for Round Eye. The plan was to use Bob Taylor's "Rolling Lock".

We (Bram & Spyderco) refined the design before tooling up.

Then Bob and Bram had a falling out and Bob said that he was stopping his production of the "Escalator". He also said that Spyderco couldn't use his Rolling Lock and ceased that discussion.

It is my understanding that Bob Taylor later sold his "Rolling Lock" invention to Benchmade.

Spyderco purchased the rights to make the Escalator from Round Eye Knife & Tool. The new Spyderco / Bram Frank collaboration was to be called the "Gunting". Spyderco invented a new lock for the model, patented the design, tooled up and made the Gunting in Golden for a number of years.

Without the use of the Rolling lock, Spyderco needed a new lock that would be as strong as the Rolling lock and easy to open. I invented the "Compression Lock" to fill that need. Vince Ford, (our engineer at the time - later went to Blade-Tech) engineered the prototype and the "Compression Lock" and the "Gunting" were born.

See Jot,

It's all your fault.

(Jot is an honorable man and a brilliant custom knife maker)

sal

[swingshot]

New tooling for a model would be required anyway, so perhaps we can talk about a new "Khalsa".

I'd definitely like to see an updated version of this model.

Anyone else?

[mrappraisit]

I'd definitely like to see an updated version of this model.

Anyone else?

You can add me to that list :)

[EarthDog]

What a great thread! Knife history. Human history. And two of the finest gentlemen making knives today, all in the space of a few posts. It is a privilege to be here.

The Spyderco Khalsa was my very first Spyderco. I just love the thoughtful, unusual design. It would be great to have it come back into production.

[Jay_Ev]

I want to extend my appreciation to Sal, Jot, and everyone else who took the time to reply to my post, answer my question, and help me get an overall understanding of this knife model. I can't really explain it, but I always feel a little special when Sal himself replies to one of my posts directly. To me, that would be the equivalent of Bill Gates replying directly to me or Steve Jobs answering one of my questions about my iPod. I know the last two examples are likely never gonna happen, and that is what makes Spyderco a business where I am happy and have no regrets spending my hard earned dollar. Again, thank you all for your input.

-Jay

[jotkhalsa]

Sal,
Thanks for your kind words and info. around the C40. I'd be happy to work with you/your team members to design and create a revised/ideal version of the knife. Let me know how we might proceed, at your convenience. Best to you and yours, JSK

[aj1985]

Spyderco Jot is my Holy grail knife and been trying to acquire one for the better part of this year and had no such luck. Price to high, already sold and even the one I bought was stolen while on delivery :mad: .

I know I still have to get the old version, but Sal and the team make this collaboration come true so we truly see this design with materials from today.

I think this would be an awesome combination, and you can put me down for two thats for sure.


take care
aj

[sal]

Sal,
Thanks for your kind words and info. around the C40. I'd be happy to work with you/your team members to design and create a revised/ideal version of the knife. Let me know how we might proceed, at your convenience. Best to you and yours, JSK

ok guys & gals,

Jot works with more materials than most makers so sky's the limit. He made a jade handled damascus (serrated) linerlock for me with a ruby thumbstud.

That's probably a bit much for production, but I think you get the idea.

Damascus is possible (probably not Jot's as I don't think he's set up for production quantities). I'm sure Devin can make production quantities, but then the price goes up quite a bit.

Blade length? Handle? Steel? Lock?

whatdoyouwant?

Jot, get out your drawing pencil and feel free to chime in.

sal