Martial Arts Questions

[tonydahose]

i now have two kids (you have probably seen my son flipping off the neighbors in an earlier post). My son is the youngest, he just turned one and my daughter is a little over 2 years old. the first question is how old do they have to be enrolled in a martial arts class. i want them (especialy my daughter) to take the class but i DO realize that if they dont like it or take to it then they won't have to go. i also realize it all depends on how mature they are at whatever age they join. i know it also depends on the school (do they have an age min.) I remember when i was taking Tae Kwon Do that there were some really young childern in there. (i thought they were 2, if i remember correctly). what discipline would you guys recommend for them? i really didnt think TKD was all that great, way to much emphasis on kicks. i remember winning a sparring match against a 1st black belt when i was a junior yellow because i used my fists after getting kicked in the head and getting really pissed..lol. i really want this for my lil girl so she will be able to protect herself when she becomes an older girl/woman. i was planning on also joining with them. do you think that will help or hinder them? if it hinders i can always join the police judo club (they let FF's play too) i want to wait till they can both go (hopefully they will both either like or dislike it so i dont have to get a babysitter for just one of them) so i have to wait till my lil boy is what ..2,3 5 years old? i know there is alot of SD gurus/instructors on here so your input appreciated. any members who had their kids join a class your eperiences are welcome too.
ps i live in chicago and there are a ton of different schools here.

[Dr. Snubnose]

Very often I am asked by parents which is the best martial art you can teach a very young child who is between the ages of 2-4. The best physical discipline or art you can teach a child at that age is not a martial art. That is not to say you can't teach a child that age martial arts. I believe the best thing you can do for a child that age is to enroll them in a good dance school program or gymnastics program. It is important for a child of that age to acquire kinesthetic sense (the ability for muscle to memorize movement). In this way, when they are ready to study a serious martial art, their bodies will be ready to gain all the benefits and their minds will better be able to grasp what they are doing as they grow older and become more responsible individuals.

I believe that children should begin study in a martial art when they have reached the age of 5 years or older. I also believe that the course of study for these young people should be only defensive in nature. Learning martial arts can be beneficial for children on many levels if they are also taught to be responsible for the knowledge that they have acquired through training. When they are taught to recognize a situation that truly requires self-defense and only use their skills to protect themselves from harm as opposed to being an aggressor, they also learn to be responsible, caring and compassionate young individuals. Doc :D

[tonydahose]

thanks for the quick answer doc...but now i have more questions. i was planning on them taking some tumbling classes and swimming and the normal stuff the lil kids go to, again if they want to. what about wrestling? i was in it so of course i want my son to be too, the wife wants him to be a QB or a shortstop..lol. as far as defensive...what hopkido instead of akido? which disciplines are really good at street self defense?

[Dr. Snubnose]

High Five on the tumbling and Swimming! I have mixed feelings about Wrestling....Aikido or (Combative)Tai Chi for kids is really perfect.....Doc :D

[Michael Cook]

:spyder: Judo and Aikido both have excellant childrens programs. In addition to learning lifelong falling skills they'll learn how to resolve conflict without needing to punch someone. :spyder:

[KaliGman]

I committed the ultimate conceit in quoting myself (from a previous post) yesterday :rolleyes: , so I might as well continue the trend.

From my website, concerning the children's martial arts classes I teach:

"Martial arts training for children can have many benefits. Socialization skills, body mechanics and motion, flexibility, self discipline, self confidence, and mental focus can all be improved through participation in martial arts. For children, the focus should not be on realistic self defense training, but on exercise, proper body motion and mechanics, discipline and focus, and having fun."

Kids need to have fun or they don't want to come back to class. I do not teach adults in my kids classes. Joining up together is a good idea, but young kids are going to be playing games (doing drills they see as fun rather than drills) while older kids, teenagers and adults need more combat focused drills. Hannibal saw one of my kids classes and commented on the games that were actually drills with a purpose. I don't like to see adults in classes with very young kids, as neither the adults nor the kids then get the benefit of the best instruction. Very mature and older kids (older teenagers and sometimes very mature pre-teens) can train with adults. All the body motion that a kid learns, the mechanics of strikes, throws, etc. when they are young can be applied to more combat oriented training later. I will accept students as young as four, but generally prefer them to be around 5. I believe in a class for the 5 to 10 year olds (depending on maturity) and a more self-defense oriented class for the 10 to 16 year olds (depending on maturity). I like to introduce kids to falling, throwing, striking, kicking, etc.--in short, medium, and long ranges. In real life, and as they progress into more combat and self defense oriented techniques and training, a truly prepared person should know control holds, grappling, throwing, striking, kicking and some weapons techniques (knife and stick). Firearms training is a separate issue that I won't get into here.

When you check out and select schools, make sure that the young kids you see seem to be having fun and that they seem to have some skills. Don't buy into a "McDojo" where someone is selling you a package of X amount of time + Y amount of money = Z colored belt (plus testing and registration fees, of course ).

Good luck, and here is to your kids having a great time and learning some life long skills. :D

[shu]

My daughter started TKD at age 6--she had a lot of fun with it while improving her balance, speed, focus, spatial awareness, etc. It provided a good outlet for her 'extra' energy while building a solid training base.

We are now involved in a 'karate' program that is much more defense-oriented and really a blend of the Japanese martial arts--basically shotokan with judo and yawara (jujutsu?) mixed in... I don't know if it is a "real" style but it is well taught and a lot of fun. Sparring can go from standing to ground and anywhere in between, testing actually tests the individual's knowledge of skills and how they might be applied in a real-world situation, focus is on knowledge and control rather than time in any particular rank.

I mention this because, in my experience, MA training provides a lot of benefits for younger children; and, while it will help them advance more rapidly when they get to 'real' training, its benefits stand alone even if the child decides not to continue. I have no doubt that martial arts have made my daughter a better athlete overall, as well as a better student. As KaliGman indicated, most programs spend a fair bit of time on 'Courtesy', 'Respect', 'Self-Control', etc. so improve "socialization skills" and increase confidence in addition to the physical aspects.

But the MOST IMPORTANT THING when choosing a martial art is the instructor. You can argue which art is the best, or which style is the best, but without a good instructor you have nothing.

The TKD school we started with had an excellent instructor... he easily made up for any shortcomings of the style or faults the governing body may have had. Since he left, the school has become a McDojang, plain and simple, and an expensive one at that.

As I stated above, the style we are with now may well be something someone made up in their basement--but the instructors teach because they love it and it shows. In the end, for me, it is not about which style is the best or what belt my daughter or I might earn, but what we get out of the program - in terms of overall quality of experience as well as quality of skills & ability - that matters most.


-----EDIT-----
Tony, in rereading your post I find I really didn't answer most of your questions.

While some programs will take kids as young as 3, 4-5 years old would seem a more reasonable minimum (again, this agrees with what KaliGman & Doc Snubnose said). 6-7 may well be the perfect age but can seem like a long time to wait.

Most programs don't (and shouldn't) train adults with young children, but you can still 'share' the experience by training at the same school. I did this with my daughter; while we didn't actually take classes together, we trained together at home and had a lot of fun with it that way.

We switched styles when she was old enough for us to take classes together (and mature enough for a more SD-related course); I can see no downside to training with my child, actually I wouldn't trade the experience for the world.

Again, I will say that the instructor is far more important than the style... a good instructor will provide not only the tools for SD but an understanding of how and when to use them; a bad one does little more than take your money and waste your time.

I apologize for the long post, hopefully there is something here of use to you.

[Joe Talmadge]

I'm about to sign my son up in the next few months. I have strong opinions on self-defense applicability of particular martial arts and their respective training techniques, and feel strongly that I'd like the little guy to get some practical self defense... someday. However, at his age -- 6 years old -- I am completely ignoring all that and going with an instructor who teaches a fun class. Plenty of time down the line for me to get him into the things I'd like to see him in, can't wait to hold the focus mitts for him and teach him boxing someday when he's older. But right now, it's just about fun, burning off some energy, and building a passion for martial sports. I found a TKD school with a program where the instructors are just fabulous with kids, and that's all that matters, so that looks to be the winner right now.

[tonydahose]

thanks for all the replies guys...ill start to look when they become 5 and 6 and it will be mostly about the fun aspect of it. thanks again.

[Capt. Carl]

I wish I had learned brazillian juijitsu when I was younger! I think ground fighting like wrestling is most important and it would be an excellent endurance builder and outlet for kids energy.

[CopilotATS-55]

My teacher teaches the exact same curriculum the Adults learn to the Kids classes except with activities included.

[2edgesword]

At 5 or 6 years old the focus is teaching balance and coordination with a martial arts twist. They can learn those skills in dance or gymnastics classes.

The minimum age at my school is 10 years old, not because I think younger kids can't learn martial arts, but because I recognize it requires some special teaching skills to communicate and train younger children, skills I don't have.

Another concern is whether the kid has a level of maturity sufficient to harness agressive tendencies. Martial arts is ultimately about how to hurt people when it is lawful and reasonable to do so. How do you pass on to a three or four year old that kicking little Johnny in the groan because he called you a name or hit you with a spit ball isn't appropriate.

[Michael Cook]

I think ground fighting like wrestling is most important...

:spyder: unless you get attacked by more than one person. :spyder:

[Dr. Snubnose]

:spyder: unless you get attacked by more than one person. :spyder:

I'll second that! What Michael Said!...Doc :D

[dialex]

Thanks for the topic. I also have two small boys (6, respectively 4 years old) and I intend to enroll them in a judo club. I think judo is the most appropriate martial art for small children.
So far I've been doing myself with them some judo and tai chi. :) Not much of a training, at this age I try to focus merely on balance and fluidity as well as the way they fall down (ukemi), not to mention sometimes the training degenerates into kickboxing (boy do they like to punch me, you'd never believe that such a small fist can actually be painful).
As a personal note, I've seen that tai chi is not very attractive for small children, at least in the beginning. I guess they don't see the point of all that slow motion wavings in the air. :o

[Dr. Snubnose]

Thanks for the topic. I also have two small boys (6, respectively 4 years old) and I intend to enroll them in a judo club. I think judo is the most appropriate martial art for small children.
So far I've been doing myself with them some judo and tai chi. :) Not much of a training, at this age I try to focus merely on balance and fluidity as well as the way they fall down (ukemi), not to mention sometimes the training degenerates into kickboxing (boy do they like to punch me, you'd never believe that such a small fist can actually be painful).
As a personal note, I've seen that tai chi is not very attractive for small children, at least in the beginning. I guess they don't see the point of all that slow motion wavings in the air. :o

While this may be very true all it takes is one demo of a self-defense app and you can see the little one's eyes widen and face smile grin from ear to ear...I teach a class of children in Sun Style Tai Chi, (it mixes tai chi with Ba Gua and Hsing-I so the pace is a little quicker and more fun for kids) I have 6 and 7 years olds that toss me around like a sack of Potatoes, I'm beginning to hate the class....LoL ...Doc :D

[dete]

I'd recommend not to worry about the style.

Choose the school because of exercise to be comfortable with
the idea of training, so later on in life they can be like,
I use to take martial arts and I enjoyed it back then,
maybe I should get back into it :)

I'd search for a nice instructor and nice students,
facility, credentials, accomplishments, styles, all are unimportant
to me.

someone that can act like a role-model for them to help
shape their character.

someone with patience, kindness, discipline, you know
Mr. Miyagi type

[elt1]

I'd have to agree with much of whats been said with respect to childhood development...
The instructor is a huge part of the process: teaching movement, physical coordination and basic social interaction in a positive way will keep the kids interested and willing to learn.
But hey, sometimes its just about getting out there and playing. (8year old Shaolin monks in-training excepted). I remember watching a group of 5-6 year olds playing a weekend soccer game which to the dismay of both coaches pretty much dissolved into chaos once they found the big mud pit in the centre of the field...
Enrolling kids into any sort of group activity (& particularly sport) teaches them and reinforces rules, social etiquette, and problem-solving more than most classrooms do. And the chances of them going to "hang out at the mall" when they're older will be reduced tenfold...
One thing that I would emphasize is the importance of aerobic exercise at a young age. As much as I enjoy baseball for its high level of skill and coordination, I believe a focus on track or swimming at a young age will develop a strong "engine" (heart and lungs) down the road....
And I'd also agree with the dance and gymnastic classes- movement and coordination development will be superior just because both employ a lot of the "Big 8" (strength, agility, balance, etc) and what with MMA being such a fusion of different styles, it will be easier (and quicker) for them to learn from different styles as they get older.

[udtjim]

I would start them with tai chi at about age four. Then work into jujitsu.

[Michael Cook]

:spyder: With respect. I don't think "fun" is a very good top priority for a child's class. I feel Martial arts class should teach discipline and respect for authority as the most important virtues to children.

Too many people use martial arts classes as cheap daycare and entertainment, that's what soccer's for.

I feel that too many parents ask too little of their children and that's just one of the reason's that almost every other western country's children outperform our's in school.

If a child is not ready to seriously and determinedly study a martial art then they're not ready to train.

At some point a child has to learn that not everything in life is about their entertainment and martial arts, if not hopelessly watered down, are pretty serious things.

Considering how many children get abducted, molested and killed every year it seems like an injustice to not give kids a chance to learn real size neutralizing techniques that'll give them a chance should an all too common attack against them actually occur.

Children really do get raped and killed, why shouldn't we really train them to protect themselves? Examples abound of young children stopping attackers with simple yet unexpected counters to vulnerable anatomical targets such as the eyes, groin and solar plexus, but this can't happen if the kids just play games. :spyder: