Civilian

[dale]

Glad to join your forum and am very new to this. Please comment on the idea of chosing a Civilian for use by my wife to carry in her purse. I am concerned that this particular knife might be to much for a first time user. Any input would be much appreciated.

Dale

[fellyjr]

I would suggest that she actually handle one first, if she hasn't already, as this knife is quite the beast! :eek: :)

BTW, welcome to the Forum!

[zenheretic]

Glad to join your forum and am very new to this. Please comment on the idea of chosing a Civilian for use by my wife to carry in her purse. I am concerned that this particular knife might be to much for a first time user. Any input would be much appreciated.

Dale

It was designed for those with little training in the knife arts as a slash the bad guy, and run away while he is screaming.

She should handle the knife frequently, opening and closing it. Practice getting out of purse etc.

If she just throws it in her purse and forgets about it...she will do just that and forget about it.

Another thing to remember is that if it is in her purse, it will be worthless if she gets ambushed as she won't possibly find it in time. But it would be handy to have as a tool assuming she is aware of her surroundings. She could access her Civilian tool when she finds herself in a dark parking garage for example, and carry it in her hand while walking to and from her car.

[girlyMANN]

dale, it's a mighty large folder and would not go down too well in the event of a random search by some "white hat" finding such a folder in her possession. There are a handful of other smaller talon-like bladed folders in the market. Before anything I would suggest you and her try out a few to shortlist before purchase. And also, a spray (held in the other hand) besides a folder, would come in pretty handy too.

[JD Spydo]

They also made a smaller version of the Civilian with an FRN handle called the "MATRIARCH". Most ladies don't have as big of hand as most men as we well know and the Matriarch has a bit of smaller handle plus it is much lighter with the Fiberglass Reinforced Nylon handle. I personally prefer the Matriarch over the Civilian and I have a fairly good sized hand.

I agree with Felly that you both should handle one in person before you decide for her to carry one for self defense. I am all for your lady being equiped for self defense but you do want the right equipment. The Matriarch has been discontinued but they do show up on Ebay on a regular basis. Keep us posted and let us know what you find out. JD :spyder: O

P.S. >> Check out the Spyderco C-111 Captain model. that would be a good one

[Mike Sastre]

The Matriarch was first produced for the South African market and was intended as a self defense tool for women. Hence the name Matriarch.

[flyguy]

The Matriarch was first produced for the South African market and was intended as a self defense tool for women. Hence the name Matriarch.

Too bad they didn't make one for American women...

[Michael Cook]

:spyder: Is she willing to train? Are you willing to train with her? :spyder:

[dale]

thank you forthe suggesion

[Agent Starling]

It's a beast of a knife...I'm a woman with fairly large hands and I still consider it a big knife...might help to also see Keating's Civilian video, for her to get the most out of the knife. :spyder: :)

Agent Starling

[dale]

Thank you for the info. Agent Starling. I understand there is a scaled down model called Matriarch. Have you any experiance with it and its availibility? Again, i don't know much about hookbill type knifes. Thanks - dale

[Agent Starling]

No, I haven't any experience with the Matriarch...AFAIK it's a discontinued model, probably a collector's item (??) :D

Starling

[malice4you]

What about something like a harpy or tasman, or byrd crossbill? I've got a civilian, and i'm a big guy, and it's a decent size for my hand. I'd imagine it'd be big for a woman, though for pure intimidation factor, the civilian can't be beat. It looks like pure EVIL. For a purely self-defense knife, a civilian or matriarch is your best bet. For a knife that will fit a woman's hand well, I'd say the ones I listed above should be good. The crossbill is inexpensive enough that you could get her it to see how she likes it, and then if she wants something different or if she dislikes it, you're not out a lot. Also....cops might not care as much about a smaller knife. I've asked a few cops about the legality of my carrying some of my knives, and I was told out that there was no way most cops would let me carry my civilian

I agree that some type of training, be it the civilian training video, or some hands-on training would be a good idea. It would be of no use to her if she got it taken away from her by some criminal. The mace in the other hand would probably be helpful as well.

Check on the laws where you live/work/visit often - you also don't want to have to go pick her up at the police department for carrying a concealed weapon....

http://www.malice4you.com/images/police.jpg - theres a high-res photo of a civilian...like i said...it's evil-looking...and big....heh

[Episteme]

dale,
I own the newest version of the Civilian, and I personally wouldn't recommend it for carry for your wife. 1) It is a large, curved, serrated blade that is intended to cut people. In the event your wife uses it on an assailant, I suspect that the design of the knife will not help your legal defense. Granted, I agree that in an ideal society, we should be able to sufficiently arm ourselves to thwart or survive a criminal attack without fear of legal hardship. However, in an ideal society, criminals wouldn't prey on innocent people.
2) In the unlikely event that her purse is searched by LEO (the good guys), it might be very difficult to explain the Civilian where many state laws specifically prohibit the carry of a knife with the intent to cut or stab another (self-defense, offensive attack, or otherwise.)
My personal opinion would be to invest in a quality OC spray (Fox Labs 3 oz. Firemaster model is what I carry every day) while remembering the limitations of OC spray, plus a Spyderco model like the Yojimbo CARRIED ON THE PERSON; preferably clipped to the strong-side pants pocket. This should accompanied by some basic training with the knife and practice. The Yojimbo, in my opinion, is heads and shoulders above all the other models when it comes to self defense, plus it has the advantage of not looking overtly weapon-like.
stay safe,
Mike

[uhiforgot]

:spyder: Is she willing to train? Are you willing to train with her? :spyder:

This is more than just a good suggestion, dale ]willing [/B]to learn. Why? Because this is not a quick-fix type of situation; this can potentially turn into a matter of life and death.

Not only will formal training give her more control over a situation gone wrong, but she will be more able to make the right decisions when the SHTF and will be able to defend those decisions should she be confronted by law enforcement.

[markg]

Some good training, and a Pink Delica, and she should be good to go...

You would be surprised to see the folks who know knife fighting who carry a Delica. Small enough to go unnoticed, yet big enough to be effective.

Plus the sprint run pink model, is the LEAST likely to be "confiscated" by someone who simply wants to keep it (hint, hint).

Plus pink is about as untactical as you can get... Which can work in your favor in so many ways.

On that note... do you think we can have a sprint run of pink Chinooks?

[224477]

dale, just in short:

as for Civie - she has to handle it first, thats a must...
but I think a common non knife woman will be affraid of the looks, just IMO.

other choices - Try to get her a SPOT or swick, small fixed blades with index finger hole, which one literally wears on hand and are quite difficult to disarm.
Cricket or Dodo as optional too.

other non spyderco choices would be maybe - Ringer2 hawkbill from CRKT or a hideaway knife /HAK/ or a LaGriffe based knife.
All of them are to be weared on hand = diff. to disarm

The most important goal is the psychical aspect, if your wife is mentally able to see herself to protect herself with a blade, because blades cut and cutting means blood.

As for a non trained person, I would suggest small fixed blade with "wearing on hand ability" and with great cutting potential.

Other thing, having a knife for protection in a purse is close to having it at home, she has to carry it on a place where she can reach it /and open if its a folder/ in most situations, and even under stress.

Get her a knife, if she feels for it, but get her a proper training as well..

Avoidance of probs and situational awareness are sometimes better "weapons" as a Glock loaded with hollow points. But be sure to check if she is willing to carry a knife for her SD.

Let us know how did you managed this, ok?

[dale]

thanks everybody for the info. i'm learning alot from your forum..

[Salamander42]

Get her a knife, if she feels for it, but get her a proper training as well..

Avoidance of probs and situational awareness are sometimes better "weapons" as a Glock loaded with hollow points. But be sure to check if she is willing to carry a knife for her SD.

Training should also cover the legal issues of carrying and using a knife for self defense.

After doing some reading on this subject myself, I've pretty much stopped carrying knives with self defense as their primary purpose. Instead, choose knives more as tools than weapons. I focus more on situational awareness and avoidance, as mentioned by 224477. But if I do find myself in a situation that I can't avoid, and I really feel that my life is in danger, I know that my Delica will serve just fine as a weapon.

[Michael Cook]

Training should also cover the legal issues of carrying and using a knife for self defense.

:spyder: "In the gravest extreme" by Masaad Ayoob should be required reading for anyone who carries lethal force level weapons (guns, knives, sticks) for self-protection. It does little good to win on the street only to loose
in court. :spyder: