Help Me Explain My EDC Spyder To The Officer

[Fish]

Funny, considering griff76 is my older brother, you would think I would have learned from his experience. I also got to be held at gunpoint for spotlight hunting when I was in highschool. Someone called 911 and told the dispatcher that 4 guys with guns were dragging a fifth guy away from their vehicle!! No idea where they got that story (maybe looking for a faster response time), but the sheriffs were a little edgy, with good reason, since 4 of us are there with our rifles. I heard the question, "Where is the fifth guy!!!" about a hundred times. Three sheriffs took my Delica and told me to remind them to give it back if I didn't end up going to jail. The knife was no problem at that point. Luckily the farmer who owned the land showed up and vouched for us as he was close friends with the family of one of my buddies. I didn't go to jail, but was so scared when I finally got to go that the Delica was the last thing on my mind. Never saw it again.
Kids, don't go spotlight hunting.

[Fozzy]

Know the law and follow it. And listen to KaliGman!

[Bolster]

Know the law and follow it. And listen to KaliGman!

I wish it were that easy, Fozzy. I really do. No matter how much a person knows the law, it's still open to interpretation and manipulation. For instance, I think I understand the 2nd Amendment--it's pretty simple--at least it was in Arizona. But in reality it doesn't apply here in California. Often the law is determined by 12 ignorant people who base their decisions on bias, prejudice, inattention, faulty memory, and their cherished ideologies.

I am seldom called a stupid person, but I am still trying to get my head around all the regulations that constrict knife carry here in Los Angeles--why should it be so difficult for an otherwise informed citizen to understand the law? So I think there are a lot of us out here that really are trying to follow the law, but we find it vexingly confusing to do so:

- Is clipping in the pocket, brandishing?
- Is putting a knife all the way in your pocket, concealment?
- A clipped-in-pocket paramil shows too much, but is the Caly OK?
- Fixed blade, must be worn visible...but folders must be concealed?
- What exactly is an inertia knife...how much inertia?
- When I cross over a line that exists only on a map, is my blade length suddenly illegal?
- And so on.

I think the widely perceived slipperiness of the law, coupled with inconsistent enforcement, contributes to a cynical citizenry...and unfortunately you, as an LEO, in the course of your duties, must deal with that cynicism on a daily basis. And looking at your sig line, perhaps a smidgen of that cynicism has rubbed off on you!

[dano]

I wish it were that easy, Fozzy. I really do. No matter how much a person knows the law, it's still open to interpretation and manipulation. For instance, I think I understand the 2nd Amendment--it's pretty simple--at least it was in Arizona. But in reality it doesn't apply here in California. Often the law is determined by 12 ignorant people who base their decisions on bias, prejudice, inattention, faulty memory, and their cherished ideologies.

I am seldom called a stupid person, but I am still trying to get my head around all the regulations that constrict knife carry here in Los Angeles--why should it be so difficult for an otherwise informed citizen to understand the law? So I think there are a lot of us out here that really are trying to follow the law, but we find it vexingly confusing to do so:

- Is clipping in the pocket, brandishing?
- Is putting a knife all the way in your pocket, concealment?
- A clipped-in-pocket paramil shows too much, but is the Caly OK?
- Fixed blade, must be worn visible...but folders must be concealed?
- What exactly is an inertia knife...how much inertia?
- When I cross over a line that exists only on a map, is my blade length suddenly illegal?
- And so on.

I think the widely perceived slipperiness of the law, coupled with inconsistent enforcement, contributes to a cynical citizenry...and unfortunately you, as an LEO, in the course of your duties, must deal with that cynicism on a daily basis. And looking at your sig line, perhaps a smidgen of that cynicism has rubbed off on you!

Califorinia has pretty easy knife laws to follow. Most large cities have city ordinances that control knife carry.

Common State codes are:
Penal Code (PC) 653k: Switchblade laws:
"For the purposes of this section, "switchblade knife" means a
knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a
spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other
similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more
inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick
of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other
mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by
any type of mechanism whatsoever. "Switchblade knife" does not
include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure
applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to
the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism
that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade,
or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.
PC 12020(a)(4): Concealed dirk/dagger (see 12020 for definitions)
PC 12020(d): (d) Knives carried in sheaths which are worn openly suspended from the waist of the wearer are not concealed within the meaning of this
section.
PC 626.10 et. al. :Knives, etc on school grounds
PC 417: Brandishing

California law link: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

--dan

[guntotin_fool]

I do not consent to a search, and by what probable cause do you feel it necessary to search me?



and I then ask the wife to start filming with the cell camera.



I feel there are times when free men should stand up and be counted. This is one of the times.

If a cop arrests you on the basis of just the tail end of the knife standing out and you have NO other obvious reasons for being quized, you will win in court on an police harassment law suit.

[enduraguy]

This is the part where you pull an ink pen from your pocket, assume an ice-pick grip and tell him you're still armed. In a non-threatening manner of course.

[flyguy]

[quote="enduraguy"]This is the part where you pull an ink pen from your pocket, assume an ice-pick grip and tell him you're still armed. ]

LOL! Not sure which is funnier, the ice-pick grip, or the "non-threatening manner"

[Xplo]

[quote="enduraguy"]This is the part where you pull an ink pen from your pocket, assume an ice-pick grip and tell him you're still armed. ]

Because... ***Edited by Taz*** ... has a ready sense of humor, right?

Please refrain from defamatory language. It is not tolerated or appreciated on this site. - Taz

[Fred Sanford]

Unless I am mistaken (at least here in Ohio) if a cop spots you toting a knife clipped to your pocket he can't do jack unless he thinks that you are a "danger" to him or society. I have had cops show notice and ask if I mind if they look at it. I can tell that they are not suspicious though because they have their guard down and are not guarding their weapon or anything.

Do you look like a "trouble causer" or something? (please don't take this the wrong way)

I ask because I've been asked about my black bladed Paramilitary by a cop and he just wanted to see it. He admired it and said "**** that's a fine knife" and gave it back. I was with my wife and little girl at the time at an Octoberfest type thing. I was waiting outside the restrooms with my little girl and there were 2 cops standing about 10 feet from me. They noticed it and just wanted to chat about it.

It all depends how well you hold yourself. We have a 2.5" limit where I live and the Para was over that limit and they didn't say anything at all.

At one point at a gas station in the morning I had a black handled SE Atlantic Salt and showed it to a cop per his request and he said he liked it. I then asked (as if I didn't know) if it was "ok" to have on me. He also said that as long as I behaved like a normal person and that I was just using it as a cutting tool I would have nothing to worry about. He told me that a lot of times the 2.5" limit law is made so that if they need to hold a criminal on something but they don't have enough to hold him on they can always hold them overnight on a knife charge. Heck the Atlantic Salt was way over my city's legal limit but yet again, I wasn't looking for trouble so it was no big deal. :)

Everytime I've had a conversation with a cop about my knife it's been just because they like the knives I have and not that I'm doing anything suspicious or anything.

[dano]

I do not consent to a search, and by what probable cause do you feel it necessary to search me?



and I then ask the wife to start filming with the cell camera.



I feel there are times when free men should stand up and be counted. This is one of the times.

If a cop arrests you on the basis of just the tail end of the knife standing out and you have NO other obvious reasons for being quized, you will win in court on an police harassment law suit.

Win in Court based upon what, exactly? You may win in criminal court, but, especially with local ordinances, a butt of a knife sticking out of a pocket is PC for a stop, as it may be a violation of most cities' ordinances (for a fact in L.A. and S.F. as both have knife laws stricter than state laws).

[cjgrad23]

In MD, there is no blade limit, as long as its a manual folder and not an automatic (assisted openers are iffy). In the rural areas,for the most part, the local police dont care, as long as you are not being a jerk with it. In the city (baltmiore), it definetly appears to be a case of " do you look like a bad guy?. I go to the city on a semi frequent basis, and am usually accompanied by my endura 3 or g10 police, both of which I have cut apples on a park bench with. No problems there.

From my limited experience, if the officer is not already being unneccessarily aggressive, and is not given a reason to be, there will probably be no problem. However, if the officer is having a bad day, or you are causing trouble with it, no amount of explaining will do. Otherwise, just go " officer I have a pocket knife clipped to my (insert spot here)" just dont try to show it to him/her unannounced!!

[severedthumbs]

according to 99.9% of all cops all pocket knives are illegal and they will try to take it from you. best thing to do is to carry iwb when out in public or whenever you dont want it noticed.

[Blades]

What someone else said, it is a tool, not a weapon. The same reason you have a spare tire in your trunk. In case of an emergency, or I always like to say, "in case I get sucked into another dimension". If you have a flashlight, multi-tool, and other knick-knacks with you, that helps.


Blades

[peacefuljeffrey]

'That is not a weapon, sir, that is a tool that I use daily for recycling, food prep and opening boxes.' Reference to the knife as a tool is the important point here.

Exactly. People have been killed with hammers that were used as weapons. The cop would not stop a carpenter and challenge him about carrying a "weapon" in the form of a hammer.

We can't allow them to frame the discussion and apply the terms unchallenged. They could end up making everything you could possibly carry a "weapon" in the eyes of the law and thus prohibit you from carrying it or imprison you for doing so.

Just because they call it a "weapon" doesn't mean it's wrong or immoral for you to have it, or even carry it daily.

Force them to face the fact that it's a TOOL. The idea of legislatively depriving the people of the ability to carry one of the world's most useful implements -- the cutting edge -- is just absurd.

-PJ

[cobrajoe]

That's a good point, would I get stopped if I was carrying a fiberglass handled 16oz framing hammer with the checkered face in the hammer loop of my carpenter pants? Probably not. Hatchet? Probably just the opposite.

So why would something even more useful as a tool become illegal?

[mm1]

I have had good luck just simply pointing out without reaching for it in any way that I do have a small pocket knife clipped to my right front pocket. Only if I was being checked or patted down would I volunteer the info. The cops I have dealt with have always been apreciative that I told them right away and also didn't reach for it. I did have 1 bad experiance where a crooked cop stole a SS Delica from me but, on the other hand I was young, and causing trouble so he could have busted me. Instead he stole my knife and sent me home. That was quite a few years ago and I am no longer a teenager and no longer a trouble maker so I no longer worry about being confronted with Leo's.

[flyguy]

That's a good point, would I get stopped if I was carrying a fiberglass handled 16oz framing hammer with the checkered face in the hammer loop of my carpenter pants? Probably not. Hatchet? Probably just the opposite.

So why would something even more useful as a tool become illegal?

Fair question, and I am only playing the Devil's advocate for a moment... But how many people have been robbed by someone holding a hammer?

[peacefuljeffrey]

Fair question, and I am only playing the Devil's advocate for a moment... But how many people have been robbed by someone holding a hammer?

Should that matter? I dare say, I'd be MORE afraid of a person robbing me with a hammer than with a knife. Longer reach, greater mass. Still gonna rend skin, even though blunt.

But anyway, why does that matter? Prosecute those who try to rob people. Don't act as though outlawing the tool will prevent the behavior. Experience has taught us that it does not.

And a further point: how many spouses have been murdered using ordinary kitchen knives? Do we ban them from being kept in the home?


-PJ