Worst nightmare came true: PD confiscated my ParaMilitary..

[Piet.S]

I think I'll put a Byrd in my pocket when I have to go to the big bad city.
And leave my more precious ones at home for the occasion.

[Bolster]

This thread has made me pretty nervous about EDCing anything more conspicuous than my Caly3 and UKPK...

With its short blade and box-cutter look, I was feeling comfortable with a Yo in my pocket--until this thread. Now I think it would be considered a "gravity knife." And that blue handle sticks way out there, perched on top of that shiny chrome clip. The knife advertises itself. So the Yo might get retired into the drawer, or modified so it's more concealable.

[redhawk44p]

You have my sympathies. That is a nightmare.

What did your Mom say?

[merciful]

You guys had a revolution once: sure is starting to look like you need another.

[GarageBoy]

So what should I say to the judge then, I'm guilty, I screwed up, nothing I can do to save my rear?

It was clipped to my pocket, not outside..but the PMillie sticks an inch above and my shirt didn't quite cover all of it.

Mom accidentaly found the summons on my desk this morning, didn't get too much flak after I explained that it was only a violation.

I'm done with this hobby...I give up...no use in getting the latest and greatest from Spydie/BM/Chris Reeves etc if I can't carry it...

watch, with my luck, I'm gonna get written down for concealed carry weapon when its inside my pocket..

[dedguy]

So if I got this right... it is legal to carry a knife... but illegal to "brandish" it... and also illegal to carry in concealed. :confused:

[merciful]

If that's the piece of law under which our poor friend has been cited, then I guess it's important for him to find out exactly how "large knife" is defined in NYC. If he can show that the Para doesn't fall foul of the law, then he should be good to go, right?

This is what you were cited with.

[Spydiman]

If that's the piece of law under which our poor friend has been cited, then I guess it's important for him to find out exactly how "large knife" is defined in NYC. If he can show that the Para doesn't fall foul of the law, then he should be good to go, right?

Yes, but the problem is that it does fall foul. It's guilty of the whole smooth opening action=gravity knife=switchblade knife law. I think.

[merciful]

Right, but if he's been cited for the "large knife carry" thing, they can't just decide later to add something else to the charge, can they? But the thing is, we don't know exactly what the citation says.

Yes, but the problem is that it does fall foul. It's guilty of the whole smooth opening action=gravity knife=switchblade knife law. I think.

[Bolster]

So what should I say to the judge then, I'm guilty, I screwed up, nothing I can do to save my rear?

That's your last recourse. Flat-out apologies work well in real life between real people, but in court they are taken as admissions of guilt. In fact, you tie the hands of even a sympathetic judge with a complete apology...not much he/she can do for you, if you go on record as knowingly doing wrong.

If I were in your position, I'd be contacting an attorney at this point. If not to accompany you, at least telling you what to say, and to inform you of what the law says regarding your case. Compare that cost against the downside if things go wrong in the courtroom.

Another venue is to contact kniferights.org. They are working on a legal section to their website but it’s not up yet so contact them to get the name of an attorney that knows the law. If more of us belonged to kniferights.org, we’d have better resources for times like these.

If you do go by yourself, I would recommend the following type of language, which has been tested by social scientists Cody & McLaughlin (1988) as being the most effective style of self-defense in traffic court. It is called a Hybrid Apology Plus Denial:

"Your honor, I'm really sorry that this had to occur. I didn't intend to do anything wrong. I picked up the kids from school and they were screaming and singing because we were going Christmas shopping. I sped up and the officer pulled me over before I saw the flashing lights. I drive on this street every day, and usually there is no speed reduction, but this day was different because school was let out early."

Translating for your case (which is difficult because you don’t have a good way to issue a denial) it would go something like this: "Your honor, I'm really sorry this occurred. I didn't intend to do anything wrong. I usually don't even carry this knife in public--it's my camping knife--but on that day I knew I had a ton of boxes to cut down at work, so I took it to work." Adjust the wording to fit whatever is truthful and/or legal. (This is where your attorney is helpful.) I would practice several ways of saying this or something similar, and then stick to your talking points as much as possible.

According to the research the Hybrid Apology Plus Denial is successful about 70% of the time in traffic court to avoid penalty. Compare that to a full confessional apology which is successful about 3% of the time.

[GarageBoy]

The problem on paper is that it was in plain view. The fact that it is a "gravity knife" is secondary

[redhawk44p]

Older people understand younger people making mistakes. We all have examples of things we did when we were young. You did not think carrying a "TOOL" could cause this kind of trouble. You plainly understand now and promise to never do it again. You obviously are a fine young gent. I think the judge will pick up on that.

[Slatts]

Slatts, it's not a perfect analogy, granted. Perfect analogies for any given situation are fairly difficult to find. It is however, at least to me, of a behavior, that while acceptable to most reasonable people in some circumstances is generally considered inappropriate by the vast majority of people in others. I think calling an ordinance which prohibits carrying a knife, or any other item that could potentially be used as a weapon, in open display in a city of almost 20 MILLION people, with a population density of 2000 per square mile "pure third world oppression" stretches the definition of oppression a whole lot further.

The analogy isn't even close to be accurate. You seem to have little trust for other knife carriers, Deacon. I tend to believe that nearly everyone is law abiding and has the right to defend themselves. If everyone carried a knife it would take away the advantage from the scum that would harm the the unarmed. New York is special, but it's not because of population density, but because of all the libs that ride the short bus to work.

[cgjones]

I think the key words here are open display. It isn't an issue of carrying the knife, it is an issue of people freaking out if they see the knife. At least that is how I interpret the law.

[flyguy]

Mom accidentaly found the summons on my desk this morning, didn't get too much flak after I explained that it was only a violation.

Not trying to be nosy, but guessing that you are between the ages of 18 and 23? Since you mom found the notice, but she isn't required to go with you to court?

If the idea of talking to a lawyer isn't an easy one for you, perhaps one of two approaches would be good:

1. Ask your mom to try to contact the District Attorney's office (on your behalf). She could play the worried mom (probably not far from the truth) and ask if you need a lawyer present.

2. Contact the District Attorny's office on your own. Find out if you should have a lawyer.

[GarageBoy]

I'm 18 exactly. Do not think she needs to go with me to court; the PO didn't say anything except, you need to show up or arrest warrant will be issued

[flyguy]

[quote="GarageBoy"]I'm 18 exactly. Do not think she needs to go with me to court]

I agree, she desn't need to go with you. Even though you are an adult, your age is still working against you. Sucks, but nothing you can do will change that for about 3-5 more years.

Consider calling and asking someone at the DA's if you should have an attorney though.

[Texas guy]

Good luck there GarageBoy, fight for your right.

Another reason I would never live outside the great state of Texas, I see other people carrying knives clipped to their pockets everywhere I go, the cops would be inundated trying to harrass all of us!

[DRod]

Cheay. I got away with wearing my BM Rant Bowie to work a few months before I broke it. I guess Texas is pretty lax about it though.

Good luck man.

[yablanowitz]

The only possible argument I can see (and it is pretty weak) is that the knife was secured inside your pocket, held there by the clip, rather than being displayed openly as was charged. Language to the effect of "Your Honor, I had the knife clipped to the inside of my pocket, I really didn't believe that qualified as open display. It was not my intention to violate the law." combined with the hope that the citing officer is too busy to show up for the court date (a very real possibility) is probably your best bet to avoid legal repercussions. I wouldn't bet an old sock on your chance of recovering your property even if the charges are dropped.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn last night The whole situation stinks, and I wish you the best of luck.