The best steel for SE?

[TK]

Hello,

I just want to know what the best steel for a SE blade is? I planning on getting a SE Spyderco.

Thomas

[Axlis]

Vg-10 is the only one I've got, but I believe it has a reputation for having very pointy and agressive.

[WORKER#9]

I voted VG-10. The D4 SE in ZDP I have has been very chippy. Several teeth are broken after several months of use. S30v holds up very well, after years of use on my LIL TEMP I have a couple of chipped teeth. The VG-10 on my Scorpius seems the least chippy, with no real chips on the blade and also the sharpest best cut serrations.

[catamount]

The D4 SE in ZDP I have has been very chippy. Several teeth are broken after several months of use.

More details, please. What were you cutting?

[rcbalt2]

I say H-1 because it work hardens and it unrustable

[Stevie Ray]

This is a great question and one that I'd love to hear more real life experience about. I've only put my H1 and VG10 SE knives to work. I don't have a SE ZDP knife and the handful of SE S30V knives in my collection have not been used.

I can't vote with experience behind the vote since I haven't put 2 of the steels to use in SE form.

Bring on the comments ....

[cobrajoe]

This is a tricky question. It all boils down to preference. Personally, on some knives, I like a rounder tooth so I can saw without tearing, and on other knives I really like a sharp tooth.

S30V is a great steel all around. It can take a polished edge, but it also can have a really biting edge that is perfect for most of my wants. It seem to have a tendency to chip when abused, and if you pry with it, you will lose your tip.

VG-10 is also a great all around steel. I find that it takes a polished edge extremely easy, but getting the "biting" edge is much trickier. When abused, it's edge will probably roll instead of chipping. (I don't have any SE VG-10 blades, however).

ZDP-189 truly is a supersteel. I've onwned my SE ZDP delica for a while now, and I have only touched it up once (but I love to keep my blades perfectly sharp at all times, if possible). The beauty of this steel dosen't come from a high angle of sharpening (although it probably is a higher angle than the low end delica), but from the edge holding properties. I cut through several automotive belts with kevlar cord with my ZDP D4 with no damage whatsoever to the edge, but my S30V SE dodo's blade curled after cutting the first belt. Also, ZDP has an interesting edge, when you sharpen it to a fine polish, it will still grab and bite.

[jaislandboy]

i voted for vg10 coz I haven't really put H-1 serrations to the test yet....i've sawed down overgrown weeds with 2-3 inches diameter trunks (neglected yard maintenance for 2 months :eek: )...with my Temperance and Scorpius with minimal to no deformation of the spyderedge....nor chipped teeth...
Same goes for the AUS-6 in the Spydersaw.....teeth still like factory sharp after similar type sawing jobs....

the most grueling test i've given my SE Salts have been cardboard boxes.....but I've got a good feeling about this H-1...

[griff76]

I say H-1 because it work hardens and it unrustable

enough said.

[D-Roc]

I say H-1 because it work hardens and it unrustable

What do you mean by "work hardens?"

[WORKER#9]

More details, please. What were you cutting?

The biggest chip came from cutting cardboard and hiting a copper packing staple. The smaller chips in the more forward teeth, I am not really sure where they came from( these chips are very small). I cut a a lot of stuff, cardboard, rope. paracord, twigs in the yard, food, ribs, you name it. When I get a knife like this I spare it no cutting task. The D4 has been used and then used some more, but never abused.

[Murdoc]

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcbalt2
I say H-1 because it work hardens and it unrustable

What do you mean by "work hardens?"

I voted for H-1, for the same reasons.

As far as I know, "work harden(-ed)(-ing) steel" means that the steel gets harder the more work (i.e. pounding at, sharpening, heck, even "real" working->cutting) is done with it.

This is opposed to the steels being only heat treated to make it harder. (correct me if I'm wrong here).

Anyway, the trick is that the SE grinding "work hardens" the steel more than just grinding a plain edge (I lerarned this from Eric Glesser last week.) So, a new Salt's SE edge is harder than a PE!

But (unfortunately), according to Eric, VG-10 is still tougher and the edge retention is even a little better than with H1.... but VG-10 can rust, H1 can't :rolleyes:

if you don't care about potential rust problems, then it seems you can have "better" steels than H1. If you do, then basically you don't have any other option than H1.

Besides, you don't always even have a choice (of steels).... depends on which model/style you're after.


Dennis

[markIVbigblock]

all steels work harden its just how fast or to what extent they will harden some steels will harden with less plastic deformation than others h-1 seems to be one of those steels that requires less deformation to work harden but all steels are capable of being work hardened I have done several experiments concerning this subject in the metallurgy lab at school which confirm this.

Aaron

[Irish Lager]

here is where IMO VG-10 outshines S30V or ZDP189. From what i have seen, VG-10 tends to have not only the sharpest serrations, but also the most aggressive teeth. Also as it has been mentioned above it doesn't seem to chip near as much. H1 may be an exception to this as it is work hardened which is explained by Aaron, i like my VG-10.
J

[The Deacon]

The "problem" with a serrated edge encountering a staple, wire, or other metal object is that the force gets "trapped" in the valley and focused on a very small area of the blade, rather than the blade being able to slide along the obstruction. Couple that with a hard, relatively brittle, steel like ZDP-189 and the probability of chipping is fairly high. Of the steels mentioned it is probably the worst in that regard by a fairly wide margin.

[bluemist]

I have to concur, VG-10 is my now my steel of choice, which is good cos I'll save a little money on that new SE Endura I've been wanting.

My SE D4 ZDP-189 is chipping WAY more than it should.

The first chip I let slide because I was slicing up an old mattress and hit the springs HARD. But the two new chips happened while ripping out old carpet, I didn't hit any staples that I am aware of.

All and all I gotta say I am a little disappointed in ZDP-189... and that makes me wish that Stretch II won't be ZDP because I can't justify the cost versus benefits.. not at this point. Could just be that ZDP doesn't do SE well but I'm not won over.

I vote VG-10..

[gunmike1]

I have to concur, VG-10 is my now my steel of choice, which is good cos I'll save a little money on that new SE Endura I've been wanting.

My SE D4 ZDP-189 is chipping WAY more than it should.

The first chip I let slide because I was slicing up an old mattress and hit the springs HARD. But the two new chips happened while ripping out old carpet, I didn't hit any staples that I am aware of.

All and all I gotta say I am a little disappointed in ZDP-189... and that makes me wish that Stretch II won't be ZDP because I can't justify the cost versus benefits.. not at this point. Could just be that ZDP doesn't do SE well but I'm not won over.

I vote VG-10..

After having a passaround SE VG-10 Caly 3 get a large chip from cutting a cardboard shipping tube, I'm not sure VG-10 wouldn't have chipped under similar cutting circumstances as you describe with the old carpet. VG-10 will be tougher than ZDP, but when you are talking 20 degree included angles or less and high carbide stainless (whether it be VG-10, S30V, or ZDP) you can expect some damage when hitting metal and cutting up tough stuff (I hear old carpet is very tough on edges, but haven't cut it myself). H1 would seem to be very good for SE, as I have read that the additional work hardening of grinding in the serrations brings the edge to around 68 RC on the SE H1 knives and gives them comparable edge retention to VG-10 SE knives, with additional toughness. Again, that is just from what I have read on the VG-10 vs. H1 comparison, but the Caly 3 chipping was first hand experience.

Mike