Dim Mak

[Dr. Snubnose]

Thought some of you might be interested in viewing this demonstration of Dim Mak (Chinese Death Touch) The demonstration is by a Chinese Master of Tai Chi Chuan...This is a real skill...not some hocus pocus stuff and I have been on the receiving end of such skills as have my teachers...it is quite amazing....Doc :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs8mblcgTsk

[ceya]

If you know someone who knows this correctly , Its devestating.

Some people as Doc stated thinks its fake til they are on the recieving end.

Ive been thrown in Judo and Aikido, Iron Palm demo and I felt it as I was the 10th person in line of 15.

Chi / Ki energy force is very powerful. Knowing the body the times of the day to hit certain points can be deadly.

S/F,
CEYA!

[Th232]

Interesting... although I must admit, the first thought that ran through my mind was "****, some pretty racist guys commenting there...". So Doc, is this you letting more of your secrets out? :D

[jaislandboy]

very cool Doc, thanx for the video link.... :)

[Jordan]

Come now, chi force? I find that two stiff fingers to the solar plexus doesn't require voodoo to be painful. That man seems like an extremely talented martial artist, but let's apply Ockham's Razor, is it a magical unquantifiable energy flowing through all of us... or is it extraordinary physical conditioning and discipline disguised in mythos.

[Dr. Snubnose]

Basically it is an electromagnetic force...to put it in laymans terms....the french have an Electromagnetic Railroad which does amazing things the US Army has an Electromagnetic Gun...which does amazing things...the Chinese have learned to harness this power from within....we all possess Chi flow but it is the cultivation of this Chi that makes things like Dim Mak and other feats of Chi Kung (breath energy) possible....Doc :D

[zenheretic]

other feats of Chi Kung (breath energy) possible....Doc :D

I am familar with something similar...very deadly at certain times of the day, it is known as "morning breath". :D

[Jordan]

I am a generally open minded fellow, if I don't say so myself. But I remain skeptical of "chi force" as an expression of electro-magnetic energy. Victor Stenger wrote a great article in The Scientific Review of Alternative Medicine a few years back in which he concluded, based on evaluation of the claims made based on hypothesis asserting the existence of a bioenergetic force (chi, for the purposes of this post), that “The bioenergetic field plays no role in the theory or practice of biology or scientific medicine. Vitalism and bioenergetic fields remain hypotheses not required by the data, to be rejected by Occam's razor until the data demand otherwise.”

No practitioner of martial arts, acupuncture, chiropractics, Feng Shui, or any other similar discipline has ever proven that this "chi" exists. At least, not in any reputable study I am aware of. It is a cool philosophical concept... but to say that it has any physical relevance is to overstep the bounds of philosophy and enter into the realm of science. That is a rather unforgiving realm for unprovable concepts. When someone can show me an MRI that maps the flow of chi through the body, or when a practitioner of chi manipulation can, say, cure an actual disease with chi manipulation... I will gladly sing a different tune. I mean, that fellow in the video was, as I said, clearly good at punching people in anatomically weak spots. But the only proof that he was "interrupting chi flow" or what have you is that... well... he said that he was interrupting chi flow. I mean, not even most disciplines agree on where exactly the chi meridians lie... or where the pressure points are. If it were scientific, as electromagnetism is, these would be universal biological truths. Even ignoring all of this, if the Chinese and the Chinese alone were the ones who mastered this kind of incredible self control, why haven't they just taken over. The kind of feat you are describing would surely make them the most dominant, martial culture on the planet. If I were capable of killing a man with a touch through use of an invisible force, I would have an open challenge available to any takers to prove my dominance. :p

I apologize if I appear dismissive or insulting. I assure you, I am merely trying to ascertain the root of this belief for my own edification. My personal belief in things that can be observed and replicated has treated me pretty well so far, even if it has made me a bit caustic and sometimes overly skeptical, and I am only trying to hold this data up against the mirror of my own experience, so to speak. For the record, if I had an option... I would live in a world where the power of prayer consistently beat medical science and chi-masters ruled the planet. Peace.

[Dr. Snubnose]

No disrespect Jordan but I though you said you were open-minded...I don't see any evidence of that...I won't debate the points you made as I don't see any validity in any of them...and until you have some direct experience with chi, chi kung, ching kung, accupressure, accupunture, Chinese Martial Arts, then there is nothing that I can say that will convince you of it's existence so I won't even try...but understand this...just because you cannot see something does not mean it doesn't exist...Nuf said....Doc :D

[Jordan]

Fair enough Doc, I respect where you are coming from and appreciate your candor.

[jaislandboy]

we are all composed of polarized (mostly water) matter.....the electomagnetic forces incurred during life affects the human body constantly......the MRI scanners that suck thousands of dollars out of the patient is one of the most expensive magnets ever created.....where's the T-Mag? :D

[The Deacon]

Think I've been dieting too long and too hard - read the title and though Dim Mak was some kind of Chinese dumplings. :o ****. :D

As for this art, I'm not disputing the fact that it is effective and that it can be deadly. I do think there has to be a more reasonable scientific explaination of how and why it works than EMF.

[Gerard Breuker]

I have giving up on being open minded long ago and although I may miss out on occasion I prefer it that way.
I would just like to say that personal experiences don't justify the theory behind it. If you feel better wearing a particular stone it is fine with me but forgive me for not believing in healing stones. The same applies to color or sound therapy, burning candles in your ears like the Hopi did etc.
I believe the human mind and body are capable of actions we find hard to understand but for which there is empirical evidence. Unproven theories that are mainly based on believing certain explanations will IMO not help us understand this evidence.

[dialex]

Thanks for the link(s). Most enjoyable. I am also doing TaiChi now and then. Not quite the Jackie Chan stuff, but for an old fart like me, it is pretty relaxing.

[Th232]

I believe the human mind and body are capable of actions we find hard to understand but for which there is empirical evidence. Unproven theories that are mainly based on believing certain explanations will IMO not help us understand this evidence.

Very true. The main problem is figuring out how this system actually works, whether it's acupuncture or these MA techniques.

In my view, it's like some of the old views on how stuff like the solar system moved, the sun revolving around the earth helps explain some stuff, just that we now have a better system. Even today, you've got the various models of the atom, and we know that the structure of the atom isn't like most of them, but the models help us explain various aspects of how it works.

[Th232]

I have giving up on being open minded long ago and although I may miss out on occasion I prefer it that way.
I would just like to say that personal experiences don't justify the theory behind it. If you feel better wearing a particular stone it is fine with me but forgive me for not believing in healing stones. The same applies to color or sound therapy, burning candles in your ears like the Hopi did etc.
I believe the human mind and body are capable of actions we find hard to understand but for which there is empirical evidence. Unproven theories that are mainly based on believing certain explanations will IMO not help us understand this evidence.

I'm a bit curious as to how you mean that personal experiences don't justify the theory behind it, since at some stage, all we have to back up what we know is personal experiences, as an example, I have experienced seeing something fall, thus I build a theory of this phenomenon called gravity. Thus, at some stage, all our theories originate from some kind of personal experience, barring divine gifts of knowledge, should you believe in that. That said, please let's not start a religious thread over this.

However, I do get your point that just because we see something happen, the particular way we explain it may or may not be right.

My view is that it does work, just that we don't know how. The system of chi may not be accurate, but it still helps us to understand the effects. A similar example would be the various models of the atom that we have. We know, for example, that most of the models are not what the atom actually looks like, but they still help us to understand how various aspects of the atom work.

[Dr. Snubnose]

Think I've been dieting too long and too hard - read the title and though Dim Mak was some kind of Chinese dumplings. :o ****. :D

As for this art, I'm not disputing the fact that it is effective and that it can be deadly. I do think there has to be a more reasonable scientific explaination of how and why it works than EMF.

Well Deacon there is...emf was just an example of what one might call it...and there is empirical date done by scienctists in the west to prove some of the theory behind the methodology, it would be easier to explain how to make those dumplings then explain chi in detail on these posts.....Doc :D

[Fred Sanford]

To me it looks like he's hitting them with 2 fingers in their solar plexes. That would hurt and take you down for a minute or so.

I hope it's real but I'm not so sure.

[Dr. Snubnose]

To me it looks like he's hitting them with 2 fingers in their solar plexes. That would hurt and take you down for a minute or so.

I hope it's real but I'm not so sure.

It's not a hit to the solar plexus at all....Doc :D

[Manifest]

I would go down if I got hit in the solar plexus that hard, hahaha.

Anyways, some more very interesting chi/dim mak demonstrations:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdrzBL2dHMI
Watch for a certain UFC fighter in this one.

http://www.filecabi.net/video/chi-toes.html
And one from National Geographic