Military pivot question

[Harry White]

My all-time favorite Sypderco (of those I've actually handled) is the Carbon Fiber Military in BG-42. The only issue I have with it concerns the pivot. After I adjust the pivot screw to the proper point -- where the blade is dead centered and the knife opens and closes smoothly with no blade play -- it loosens rather quickly (several dozen openings/closings). If I adjust the blade in the morning, it will need tightening by the end of the day if not sooner.

None of my other Sypdercos with an adjustable pivot do this -- they stay put for a long time once adjusted to where the action is smooth.

Is this normal for the military? I have something similar to Loctite called Prime Lok Type 245 Blue but have never used this type of product before. I thought that before I tried this on my Military I would ask this group if this was a good idea or not.

So, what do you think about using this 245 Blue threadlock formula on the CF Millie to address a "loose" pivot? Any tips on proper usage for a first-timer?

Thanks for sharing any opinions or tips you may have. :)

HW

[STR]

The loctite you have may work but if this suddenly developed and was not evident in the past it almost sounds like a ripped washer or something like a little grit is in the pivot causing the blade to grab the barrel as you rotate it around it rather than simply slide over it. I think I'd try taking the blade out, cleaning it all up good lubing it with some tuff glide, and sticking it all back together providing everything inside gets a clean bill of health. This way you can view it to see if it elimates the problem or if you can see any signs that may have been the problem before the loctite is applied and then after cleaning it all up loctite it in place when you put it back together.
If you apply the loctite without eliminating the problem it will eventually start up again possibly.

Its adviseable to let the knife sit overnight without using it once you apply the thread loc. Go ahead and get the tension of it where you want it and then give it a day to set up.

STR

[denn]

oh yeah, it happens every now and then on Mili's, but also some other models (usually liner-, frame- or compression-locks.....)

Loc-Tite the pivot screw. adjust to how you like it. let it lay still on a table, clip-side down and wait at least half an hour or so for the loctite to settle and dry

any kind of threadlock will do, loc-tite, lock-bond, prime lock, whatever.

just make sure to use the blue-grade (this means that it will remain tightened, but with enough force it can also be loosened again if necessary).

red-grade is like super-glue, don't use that one

happy tinkering!

[Harry White]

Thank you STR and denn.

STR -- I've never taken apart a liner lock before. It appears that I don't need to disassemble the entire knife to do what you suggest in your post -- I can just remove the pivot screw and blade, clean thoroughly, and reassemble. Is this correct?

What about the washers? Are there any in the Military, and if so, how should they be cleaned and lubed?

I don't have any Tuff-Glide, but I do have other lubricants and also one of those generic silicone cloths that are recommended for wiping down knife blades for long-term corrosion protection. Would wiping down the entire blade, pivot area and washer with this be sufficient for lubrication?

A lot of questions, I know, but this is my most expensive knife and I don't want to do anything wrong while trying to fix this pivot issue.

Many thanks!

PS - It's been this way since I first got the knife. The looseness of the pivot is not a new occurrence, but I figured I should try the clean/lube suggestion before using the threadlock.

[denn]

i'll pretend i'm STR now and answer your Q's. check answers in bold behind your text, see below:

Thank you STR and denn.

STR -- I've never taken apart a liner lock before. It appears that I don't need to disassemble the entire knife to do what you suggest in your post -- I can just remove the pivot screw and blade, clean thoroughly, and reassemble. Is this correct?

yes, but be careful. the Mili is somewhat tricky to disassemble, since you won't get it fully disassembled because of the lanyard-hole spacer that is permanently in place. from what i've read so far concerning your knife i wouldn't deem it necessary to perform surgery to your Mili

What about the washers? Are there any in the Military, and if so, how should they be cleaned and lubed?

none whatsoever, AFAICR when tinkering on mine

I don't have any Tuff-Glide, but I do have other lubricants and also one of those generic silicone cloths that are recommended for wiping down knife blades for long-term corrosion protection. Would wiping down the entire blade, pivot area and washer with this be sufficient for lubrication?

some general oil, like silicon or wd40 will also do just fine, but IMO the knife doesn't need lube at all, if you do this you'll be fine: clean and rinse with HOT water blade, pivot- and handle-area, snap dry, wipe off, fold, pocket for at least 15 minutes to dry completely.

only if the knife is severely used and been gunked up with mud in the pivot for a long time, i'd recommend letting soak some WD40 in the pivot overnight, and THEN clean.

A lot of questions, I know, but this is my most expensive knife and I don't want to do anything wrong while trying to fix this pivot issue.

Many thanks!

PS - It's been this way since I first got the knife. The looseness of the pivot is not a new occurrence, but I figured I should try the clean/lube suggestion before using the threadlock.

DO use threadlock on the thread of the pivot-screw! it's very common practice for lots of knife-people. the pivot WILL loosen over time again if you don't. lock it!

and just for fun, make sure to read this review: http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/m ... _s30v.html

now you're covered, right? ]

[Harry White]

Thanks denn!

Last question to anyone who wants to chime in: When using Loctite (or something similar), should I remove the pivot screw completely, apply a drop to the threads of the screw, tighten to where it feels rights, and let sit overnight? Is this the best procedure?

Does it make a difference if it "settles" in the open or closed position?

PS - thanks for the link on the Mili review denn -- I've read that one a few times already! :D

[Manifest]

Remove, clean it well (to remove all dried loctite). You DO NOT need a whole drop of loctite, that is way to much and you will get loctite everywhere. Add a drop of loctite to a piece of foil, wax paper, or whatever you have lying around and use something like a toothpick to add a small amount around 3 or 4 threads. Tighten, let sit overnight.

[Harry White]

Remove, clean it well (to remove all dried loctite). You DO NOT need a whole drop of loctite, that is way to much and you will get loctite everywhere. Add a drop of loctite to a piece of foil, wax paper, or whatever you have lying around and use something like a toothpick to add a small amount around 3 or 4 threads. Tighten, let sit overnight.

Thanks Manifest! I'm going to try that right now! :D

[Zac]

I find a Millie easy to take apart and it retains its tolerances when reassembled.

It sounds like something may be between the washers...for the thin, semi-transparent ones, the later gen Millie has 2 on each side making 4 in total. WD-40 is great for cleaning since it means Water Displacement. I have put my Mill in the dishwasher and then spray it in WD-40 to get ride of the water in the tricky or impossible to reach parts. I use TufGlide as my primary lube. I use Blue Loctite...as mentioned, Red is overkill like JB Weld and fully permanent.

I have heard the older Millies are rather prone to this loosening condition...why I do not know. :o

[jaislandboy]

nothing new to add here Harry, but my R2 (backlock) had a loosening pivot with repetitive opening/closing......so with the knife in a closed position, I unscrewed the pivot pin just enough to put some of that blue locktite on the threads (with a toothpick)......let it set up for a few hours....then the problem was solved!

[Harry White]

i am beyond embarrassed.

i lost the pivot screw.

while cleaning it above the kitchen sink. i will say no more about the incident. :o

the sadness is overwhelming.

i guess i will try to send it in to W&R or request a new pivot pin. though i did not notice any washers in the bg-42 millie...

what a horrible way to end the night. i have to go to bed now... work calls.

[Zac]

i am beyond embarrassed.

i lost the pivot screw.

while cleaning it above the kitchen sink. i will say no more about the incident. :o

the sadness is overwhelming.

i guess i will try to send it in to W&R or request a new pivot pin. though i did not notice any washers in the bg-42 millie...

what a horrible way to end the night. i have to go to bed now... work calls.

I am sorry to hear that
We all do this once...then we learn to plug the sink

[fellyjr]

i am beyond embarrassed.

i lost the pivot screw.

while cleaning it above the kitchen sink. i will say no more about the incident. :o

the sadness is overwhelming.

i guess i will try to send it in to W&R or request a new pivot pin. though i did not notice any washers in the bg-42 millie...

what a horrible way to end the night. i have to go to bed now... work calls.

You know you can always pull the trap off and I bet if you caught it before you ran the water the screw will be sitting in the bottom of the trap. I hope this helps and hope it's not too late. My wife dropped an earring down the drain and I was able to retrieve it this way.

[Harry White]

You know you can always pull the trap off and I bet if you caught it before you ran the water the screw will be sitting in the bottom of the trap. I hope this helps and hope it's not too late. My wife dropped an earring down the drain and I was able to retrieve it this way.

thanks felly -- thats exactly what i did -- and it worked! I found the pivot screw. :D

i immediately shut off the water as soon as it went down the drain, then went to be as it was very late. came home and dismantled my sink and found it in the trap.

now to put the sink back together.

and then get back to fixing my mili.

and thanks for your concern zac. :)

[Harry White]

thought i'd share an update on my mili situation...

today i took the blade out of the milie, along with the bushings and the two-part pivot screw. i taped the blade edge with some heavy duty duct tape to protect myself (i'm extra cautious since my jess horn near thumb-amputation).

i cleaned everything with breakfree-clp, gently brushing the hard to reach places with a pipe cleaner. i put it back together and tightened it to where the blade was centered and flickable -- and it has not loosened yet! success!

thanks again for the "clean before resorting to loctite" strategy, STR! :)

ps - i've only taken apart my D4 and now my mili, and its true what some have said -- a knife really feels like its "your knife" only after you take it apart and rebuild it. at least it does for me. (warranty concerns aside)