I gotta prolbem...
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baszerkawits
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- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
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baszerkawits
- Member
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
To say the least I'm quite supprised at the number of posts my topic has brought out.
Colinz,
when I said that I pulled my knife as a way to scare the person away from me was a bad way of putting it.
I can sorta of take baszerkawits point of veiw on how using a knife for self defense will do more harm then good. In my case it did certainly get me into more trobuled then I was willing to bargin for. But I also disagree with his saying that people who carry knives around knives for self defense are either wussed out or paranoid. Im my light of view I think of it as just another excuse/reason to carry a knife <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
"Here a Moose, there a Moose, every where a Moose Moose."
Colinz,
when I said that I pulled my knife as a way to scare the person away from me was a bad way of putting it.
I can sorta of take baszerkawits point of veiw on how using a knife for self defense will do more harm then good. In my case it did certainly get me into more trobuled then I was willing to bargin for. But I also disagree with his saying that people who carry knives around knives for self defense are either wussed out or paranoid. Im my light of view I think of it as just another excuse/reason to carry a knife <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
"Here a Moose, there a Moose, every where a Moose Moose."
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baszerkawits
- Member
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
But I also disagree with his saying that people who carry knives around knives for self defense are either wussed out or paranoid. Im my light of view I think of it as just another excuse/reason to carry a knife
Yes you are also right, but the people who ARE actually carrying a knife around for self defense are wusses or paranoid.
I said you are right because people probably use the self defense excuse to carry a knife. But if your not a kid, you don't need to make excuses.
Yes you are also right, but the people who ARE actually carrying a knife around for self defense are wusses or paranoid.
I said you are right because people probably use the self defense excuse to carry a knife. But if your not a kid, you don't need to make excuses.
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Allen E. Treat
Dear Moose ;
Having worked for an Attorney for
about a year and a half I can tell you that
pulling a knife in self defense is no crime,
provided that the other party involved was
armed and had intent to cause you injury / death. "Justifiable lethal force" is what was
at issue in your case. My recommendation is
to carry pepper spray and use it if the other
party is unarmed, then it's your word against
theirs if they ment to cause you bodily harm.
As far as ownership of knives, there is no law that I can readily think of that makes it
a crime to own knives ( other than if you're
on parole or probation ). Assure your parents
your collection should cause them or you no
legal grief.
A.E.T.
Having worked for an Attorney for
about a year and a half I can tell you that
pulling a knife in self defense is no crime,
provided that the other party involved was
armed and had intent to cause you injury / death. "Justifiable lethal force" is what was
at issue in your case. My recommendation is
to carry pepper spray and use it if the other
party is unarmed, then it's your word against
theirs if they ment to cause you bodily harm.
As far as ownership of knives, there is no law that I can readily think of that makes it
a crime to own knives ( other than if you're
on parole or probation ). Assure your parents
your collection should cause them or you no
legal grief.
A.E.T.
Moose, as I said earlier, I don't know you. If you say that you were justified in pulling a knife, I will take your word for it. It just seemed to me that you were nonchalant about the legal consequences of using a knife in a confrontation. I'm not against using knives or other weapons in self defense, I just don't take deadly force lightly. Considering the number of people who don't like or who are indifferent to knives, I think that it is only responsible that all knife users should act with the utmost responsibility when using knives unless we want to see our right to use them curtailed by those so inclined to pass laws for any and everything.
Here's my opinion on the matter. I carry two knives at all times. A mid sized folder and my toad. I would not pull a knife on anyone, anytime. I don't think that I could live the consequences of killing someone, even if they had that intention for me. If they want my car keys, my money, my wallet, they can have them. But if you really want to be able to defend yourself, why don't you carry something like a blunt kubaton. I have carried one for about 3 years as a keychain and have never had problems (Granted, I asked a cop friend of mine about legality, prior to carrying it...). I then had a friend teach me some moves with it. The fact is, with the proper training, you shouldn't need to have to use a knife in defense.
Matt
Matt
Jazzman, it seems that you have put a lot of thought into the selfdefense issue.
A problem with the kubaton is that you do not permanently destroy a nervebundle or muscle. It only incapacitate a certain part of the anatomy for a while IF the person is "average joe". Crackheads and psychotics are some people that are not included in this category.
I just know one thing, if someone attacks me that person has crossed a line. The attacker ATTACKS. That means by definiton that the person has to take the consequenses of the violation. Civilized people do not attack each other.
I will do whatever there is in my power to stop the attack. I believe my life to be priority one, if your isn´t - it´s ok, I do not agree with you.
/Colinz
A problem with the kubaton is that you do not permanently destroy a nervebundle or muscle. It only incapacitate a certain part of the anatomy for a while IF the person is "average joe". Crackheads and psychotics are some people that are not included in this category.
I just know one thing, if someone attacks me that person has crossed a line. The attacker ATTACKS. That means by definiton that the person has to take the consequenses of the violation. Civilized people do not attack each other.
I will do whatever there is in my power to stop the attack. I believe my life to be priority one, if your isn´t - it´s ok, I do not agree with you.
/Colinz
My point is simply that there are MANY alternatives to carrying a knife or gun for self-defense that are far more ethical. Pepper spray for one is even better than a knife. You don't even have to get within striking distance to use it. There are also a number of batons (ASPs) and stun guns that can rend someone unconscious. Plus, I have never heard of someone just shrugging off a stun gun. Someone can shrug off a misplaced stab. The other point I wanted to make is that defense should be hit and run only. You don't need to destroy muscles and such to temporarily stun someone. You hit someone, then you get the heck away and get some real help. I am not telling you not to carry a defense knife. If that is your thing, to each his own. I just find it irresponsible and dangerous.
Matt
PS. I'll let you tell Bram that impact weapons don't work.....
Matt
PS. I'll let you tell Bram that impact weapons don't work.....
To the best of my knowledge(and i'm no lawyer)even using pepper spray is a felony depending on the situation. I personally wouldn't do anything in self-defense unless I felt my life was truly in danger. I may sound like a wuss, but unless I think i'm going to die, it's just not worth fighting back.
The forum member formerly known as cjones.
The forum member formerly known as cjones.
Jazzman,
I did not want to offend or belittle you. I´m truly sorry if you took it that way, it was never my itention.
About the ethics:
You talk about ethics as being static, it never changes. I also get the impression that you think less damage inflicted means higher degree of ethics. Sorry but I don´t agree.
First point: Ethics differ through time and place that is why moralphilosophy can be studied at college level.
Second point: If someone attacks me that person has physically showed me that for some reason my rights (to freedom) is of no concern to him. The person does not seem to have what you and I call ethics or moral.
About other means of selfdefence:
I agree with you that batons can be a good way of defending oneself. You mentioned a Kubaton earlier. The difference between these two are that with an ASP you can break a bone. By breaking it one cannot use it. A Kubaton uses the pain to reach a similar result. With a Kubaton you do not get the intended results if no pain can be felt.
I believe Bram discussed the cutting of muscle and/or nerves so that the limb seize to FUNCTION. Therefore I do not see why anyone would argue that impact weapons are useless. Good impactweapons and good knives works with the same "stop-the-function" theory.
Stunguns needs a battery and are more difficult to carry concealed. I believe that Massad Ayoob "zaps" a students weak arm as one of many exercises to show that even when stunned a person can fire a gun.
"shrugg of a stab" - to severe tendons, muscles and nerves you cut you don´t stab. I can only think of stabbing maybe to the eyes or using a stab for entry into a point in the anatomy where I can start cutting parts that affect the ability to attack.
Defence as hit-and-run:
I agree if you mean HIT, then check if the BG is incapacitated for further attacks on my person, making sure he doesn´t hit me in the back. Then I RUN.
"irresponsible and dangerous" - I don´t agree. I believe that I have a very, very, high degree of responsibility by making sure I can continue to live and take care of my loved ones.
CARSON:
I don´t think you are a wuss. I just can´t understand why you would not defend yourself. If you are in the process of getting a beating, how do you know when that person is going to stop? Why risk a stomping to death?
/Colinz
I did not want to offend or belittle you. I´m truly sorry if you took it that way, it was never my itention.
About the ethics:
You talk about ethics as being static, it never changes. I also get the impression that you think less damage inflicted means higher degree of ethics. Sorry but I don´t agree.
First point: Ethics differ through time and place that is why moralphilosophy can be studied at college level.
Second point: If someone attacks me that person has physically showed me that for some reason my rights (to freedom) is of no concern to him. The person does not seem to have what you and I call ethics or moral.
About other means of selfdefence:
I agree with you that batons can be a good way of defending oneself. You mentioned a Kubaton earlier. The difference between these two are that with an ASP you can break a bone. By breaking it one cannot use it. A Kubaton uses the pain to reach a similar result. With a Kubaton you do not get the intended results if no pain can be felt.
I believe Bram discussed the cutting of muscle and/or nerves so that the limb seize to FUNCTION. Therefore I do not see why anyone would argue that impact weapons are useless. Good impactweapons and good knives works with the same "stop-the-function" theory.
Stunguns needs a battery and are more difficult to carry concealed. I believe that Massad Ayoob "zaps" a students weak arm as one of many exercises to show that even when stunned a person can fire a gun.
"shrugg of a stab" - to severe tendons, muscles and nerves you cut you don´t stab. I can only think of stabbing maybe to the eyes or using a stab for entry into a point in the anatomy where I can start cutting parts that affect the ability to attack.
Defence as hit-and-run:
I agree if you mean HIT, then check if the BG is incapacitated for further attacks on my person, making sure he doesn´t hit me in the back. Then I RUN.
"irresponsible and dangerous" - I don´t agree. I believe that I have a very, very, high degree of responsibility by making sure I can continue to live and take care of my loved ones.
CARSON:
I don´t think you are a wuss. I just can´t understand why you would not defend yourself. If you are in the process of getting a beating, how do you know when that person is going to stop? Why risk a stomping to death?
/Colinz
No offense taken! I just get a little passionate in the heat of battle!!! It is great to hear another's opinions. However, I think that we should continue this conversation through other means featuring that this is a knife forum. If you want to continue this debate, mail me @ garavamj@slu.edu
Thanks,
Matt
Thanks,
Matt
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deaddeerhead
- Member
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Ohio USA
I was going more for the gun in my face/knife to my throat idea. I'm a pretty big guy (6ft. 250lbs.) and if someone attacked me without some sort of weapon, they would probably regret it. I'm no Van Damme or anything like that, but I'm a brawler. I just don't think my first reaction would be to reach for a knife. If someone pulled a gun and told me to give them my wallet, they can have it. I rarely carry much if any cash and I can have my bank card cancelled within 15 minutes. I would like to take one of the MBC classes at Spyderco and learn how to correctly use a knife for self-defense.
Carson, I believe that I misunderstood you. In a knife-to-the-throat situation I have to agree. Compliance can in some situations be a lifesaver.
I would like to go on a guntingseminar. I will check if it is plausible to do that where I live (europe). Bram mentioned a contact, maybe it will work out for me.
Anyone that has found this thread interesting and has some thougths in the subject of selfpreservation with a blade, check out "practical tactical" on Bladeforums.com.
Pray for peace, prepare for war.
/Colinz
I would like to go on a guntingseminar. I will check if it is plausible to do that where I live (europe). Bram mentioned a contact, maybe it will work out for me.
Anyone that has found this thread interesting and has some thougths in the subject of selfpreservation with a blade, check out "practical tactical" on Bladeforums.com.
Pray for peace, prepare for war.
/Colinz
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Frank Olesen
- Member
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: spokane wa.
Hello to all.
I'm new to this forum. Thank you Mr. Glesser for having opened this site. My name is Frank Olesen And I'm one of Bram Frank's instrucors at CSSD, and I own and operate skunkworks concealment solutions.
Moose; I don't know you, but I believe you got in trouble out of ignorance. Had you known when, and when NOT to try and use your knife in self defense you might have circumvented your legal problems. It was also, not prudent of you to TRY and use the knife for your protection if you don't know how to use it, I am assuming that you DON'T know how because it is not PC to teach under age persons how to use a knife in self defense.
I'm not an Atty. but I am part of one of the most advanced, legal and MORAL schooling systems for self defense with a knife, Mr Glesser, Bram, Peter Roman, and Peter Jhones are involved in MARTIAL BLADE CRAFT for a reason. I respectfull suggest that you wait untill you are a little older, and take one of Bram's seminars to actually, uderstand some of the pieces of the complex situation you can get in when using a knife for self defense. Legality, is not the only factor to consider here, the MORAL intent of the cut, will be also examined by the judge }:)
As for the person who said that people are "paranoid and wusses" when WE carry a knife for self preservation, I can only say that it is only your opinion, and your apparent lack of experience shines through your comments.
Frank Olesen
Instructor CSSD
I'm new to this forum. Thank you Mr. Glesser for having opened this site. My name is Frank Olesen And I'm one of Bram Frank's instrucors at CSSD, and I own and operate skunkworks concealment solutions.
Moose; I don't know you, but I believe you got in trouble out of ignorance. Had you known when, and when NOT to try and use your knife in self defense you might have circumvented your legal problems. It was also, not prudent of you to TRY and use the knife for your protection if you don't know how to use it, I am assuming that you DON'T know how because it is not PC to teach under age persons how to use a knife in self defense.
I'm not an Atty. but I am part of one of the most advanced, legal and MORAL schooling systems for self defense with a knife, Mr Glesser, Bram, Peter Roman, and Peter Jhones are involved in MARTIAL BLADE CRAFT for a reason. I respectfull suggest that you wait untill you are a little older, and take one of Bram's seminars to actually, uderstand some of the pieces of the complex situation you can get in when using a knife for self defense. Legality, is not the only factor to consider here, the MORAL intent of the cut, will be also examined by the judge }:)
As for the person who said that people are "paranoid and wusses" when WE carry a knife for self preservation, I can only say that it is only your opinion, and your apparent lack of experience shines through your comments.
Frank Olesen
Instructor CSSD