Crazy Good Deals Part 2!!

[sovereign]

All this is making my eyes glaze over.
However, correct me if I'm wrong, I often am,
but I think it is still legal
at the risk of being embarrassed
to offer to buy at a price lower
than the price asked or advertised.
A merchant might guffaw or get rude
but I think merchants still have the option
of negotiating a price with an individual.

To enforce price fixing policies manufacturers pose as buyers in the manner that you propose.

[Crox]

Price fixing seems like the most appropriate term as things continue to unfold.

I checked out Optics Planet because they often have sales around 10% off only to find out Spyderco won’t even allow that.

Pretty disappointing and definitely puts a sour taste in my mouth.

[media] [/media]

I don’t believe it is the appropriate term. Spyderco would have to collude with Benchmade, Gerber, etc and decide to raise all knife prices - as an example - to be price fixing. Spyderco could decide tomorrow to be direct to consumer and sell at MSRP if they chose - that would be legal and put us in the same situation.

So consider this scenario...

Spyderco sells in bulk to a distributor, who then sells to authorized retailers. Those authorizations are approved under an agreement to sell at a determined price.

Now say that the distributor ends up work unpurchased stock, and an unauthorized retailer comes along and offers to take it off their hands at a lower cost. That retailer then turns around and sells the knives to consumers at a deeply discounted rate.

Now say Spyderco decides they don't want that to happen, so they talk to the distributors and tell them not to sell to that retailer anymore unless they agree to sell at a price an authorized retailer would. The distributor is unlikely to be inclined to do that unless Spyderco threatens to stop selling to that distributor.

Now if you consider that knives aren't the goods in question, but rather specifically Spyderco knives, the "price fixing" happens among the distributor level rather than at the level of the manufacturers. It really doesn't seem like that's much different.

I hate to debate this. But the terminology of “price fixing” has legal implications, at least in the US. Are we saying the FBI should investigate Spyderco?

I’m not a lawyer, but it seems current precedent allows what they’re doing. So while I don’t like it, I wouldn’t say they are “price fixing” or doing anything illegal.
Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leegin_Cr ... _PSKS,_Inc.

[Mage7]

Price fixing seems like the most appropriate term as things continue to unfold.

I checked out Optics Planet because they often have sales around 10% off only to find out Spyderco won’t even allow that.

Pretty disappointing and definitely puts a sour taste in my mouth.

[media] [/media]

I don’t believe it is the appropriate term. Spyderco would have to collude with Benchmade, Gerber, etc and decide to raise all knife prices - as an example - to be price fixing. Spyderco could decide tomorrow to be direct to consumer and sell at MSRP if they chose - that would be legal and put us in the same situation.

So consider this scenario...

Spyderco sells in bulk to a distributor, who then sells to authorized retailers. Those authorizations are approved under an agreement to sell at a determined price.

Now say that the distributor ends up work unpurchased stock, and an unauthorized retailer comes along and offers to take it off their hands at a lower cost. That retailer then turns around and sells the knives to consumers at a deeply discounted rate.

Now say Spyderco decides they don't want that to happen, so they talk to the distributors and tell them not to sell to that retailer anymore unless they agree to sell at a price an authorized retailer would. The distributor is unlikely to be inclined to do that unless Spyderco threatens to stop selling to that distributor.

Now if you consider that knives aren't the goods in question, but rather specifically Spyderco knives, the "price fixing" happens among the distributor level rather than at the level of the manufacturers. It really doesn't seem like that's much different.

I hate to debate this. But the terminology of “price fixing” has legal implications, at least in the US. Are we saying the FBI should investigate Spyderco?

I’m not a lawyer, but it seems current precedent allows what they’re doing. So while I don’t like it, I wouldn’t say they are “price fixing” or doing anything illegal.
Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leegin_Cr ... _PSKS,_Inc.

No, I'm not really arguing the legal implications, but rather just pointing out that it's still basically running afoul of the spirit of the law if not the language.

I'm not saying I want Spyderco to be investigated or regulated either. But I think when we're at a point where we're saying, "Well, it's not technically illegal, then there's a lot of room for improvement.

[Enactive]

I'm no lawyer, but i don't think what they are doing is anything close to illegal or unethical.

[TimButterfield]

I'm no lawyer either, but do have a bit of an issue with this as a consumer. It makes sense to me that a manufacturer can set the prices they charge to dealers, possibly even with variations based on the volume of sales. It is also obvious some dealers have more overhead costs based on location, staffing, etc. than some other dealers. For a manufacturer to force a dealer to sell at X regardless of their lower overhead or desire to take less profit seems a step beyond their remit to me. It forces the dealer to take a larger profit per item rather than to sell more of that item, which seems a counterproductive. How could the manufacturer make more by selling less? Perhaps I'm not understanding the math involved, but as a consumer, higher costs to me definitely results in less purchases. If it is a subset of dealers forcing this on the manufacturer to hurt their competition, that seems a whole different kettle of fish.

[Jeb]

I know of plenty manufacturers that do their price perfection like this. More than a few things I like and have some of around here.

Shimano fishing reels are one, Yeti coolers and products are another. Lincoln welding equipment which I have as well, their welding machines are price protected.

The manufacture can do this very easy with their dealers, just as long as they stay in the network, once they decide to close out said brand, then they can sell the product for what they can, just at the expense of loosing that product line...

We simply want said product or not guys...

[Mage7]

It's not illegal or unethical for a company to prioritize making money, but the bottom line is that it's a bad thing for customers and it's a bad thing for resellers that should have the autonomy to determine how they price products they resell. To play the game of mental gymnastics trying to distort it being beneficial for either is just disingenuous, and for what? To defend Spyderco? That's the type of blind brand loyalty that exists for products whose prices rapidly outpace their value, and that happens when a company realizes it doesn't have to work to impress its customers anymore. Spyderco is quickly becoming a brand whose only real advantage is that the inflated value and collectiblility of their products makes them easy to make money reselling on the secondary market--people keep complaining about sprints and exclusives selling out in an hour and the bulk being flipped on eBay as if that's a bug and not a feature.

Right now Spyderco actually does still have a few unique things going for it that no other knife company provides, namely experimenting with new steels and innovative designs. But do people truly believe they're doing that out of the goodness of their hearts and professional pride? They're a business and they want to make money and sell knives. They used to do that by offering what no other knife company did. If they find easier and/or more lucrative ways to do that, then they will just like any other company would.

[Woodpuppy]

Maybe start a new thread for the price setting discussion, and save this for MAP holidays and DQ sales, if that’s all that’s left.

[TimButterfield]

I suspect this thread drift is caused by the 'crazy good deals' that used to exist for production knives no longer being possible. Thus, the normal content is not as readily applicable. But, I guess we could let it become a permanent necro thread that only gets resurrected for the odd MAP holiday or DQ sale as mentioned. It was nice while it lasted.

[TimButterfield]

-- starting a new thread instead --

[ejames13]

Does anyone have info on when the next MAP holiday will be?

[abbazaba]

Are MAP holidays going to be an maximum enforced discount of 20% or less from now on, basically making it srill MAP?

[WilliamMunny]

Midway USA has a Para 3 Lightweight Salt on sale for $105 plus free shipping. Odd part is that it's a "blemished" knife. First time I have heard of that for a Spyderco unless it's a second.

https://www.midwayusa.com/ltd/product?pid=157038

[ejames13]

Midway USA has a Para 3 Lightweight Salt on sale for $105 plus free shipping. Odd part is that it's a "blemished" knife. First time I have heard of that for a Spyderco unless it's a second.

https://www.midwayusa.com/ltd/product?pid=157038

I've seen a few other dealers sell blems from time to time. Chicago Knifeworks does it.

Usually come from return stock, I believe.

[8th_Note]

Midway USA has a Para 3 Lightweight Salt on sale for $105 plus free shipping. Odd part is that it's a "blemished" knife. First time I have heard of that for a Spyderco unless it's a second.

https://www.midwayusa.com/ltd/product?pid=157038

I just got a "blemished" Lil Temp 3 SE from one of my favorite online dealers for $60 (with free shipping). It was brand new in the box with no discernable blemishes.

[cabfrank]

Now that's a crazy good deal!

[Fastidiotus]

I just got a "blemished" Lil Temp 3 SE from one of my favorite online dealers for $60 (with free shipping). It was brand new in the box with no discernable blemishes.

Would be hilarious to see a retailer pull a Sweetwater, and use demo/blemish as a way around not aggravating their supplier and still having a "sale".

[SG89]

Gross

[Aladinsane]

Midway USA has a Para 3 Lightweight Salt on sale for $105 plus free shipping. Odd part is that it's a "blemished" knife. First time I have heard of that for a Spyderco unless it's a second.

https://www.midwayusa.com/ltd/product?pid=157038

I've seen a few other dealers sell blems from time to time. Chicago Knifeworks does it.

Usually come from return stock, I believe.

Yeah, I got an “open box” UKPK SPY27 for a great price a while ago. That’s what got me back into Spyderco. Don’t blow off low prices, they can be a gateway to more purchases!

[Mad Mac]

Maybe the following is a legitimate workaround
considering it became a one on one negotiation.

An internet knife store was having a special 20% off sale
on top of their normally discounted price.
I selected a Spyderco discounted 20% off list
and at checkout a banner popped up
that said the special 20% sale did not apply to this item.
That cooled my ardor and I abandoned my shopping cart.

A couple of days later, I received an email
offering an additional 20% off the knife in my shopping cart
and displaying the new price, making it a total of 40% off.
Most of my collection below was built on discontinued models
which were being offered at 60% of list back in the good old days.
I bought it.

Might be worth giving it a try if you are willing to be patient.