Lucky that I´m a Seki-guy...

[Wartstein]

There is another price discussion going on right now (my point: Basically that Spycerco prices are justified: viewtopic.php?p=1867104#p1867104).

Made me realize once more and that´s what I´d like to share:
In a way I got really lucky in that I just genuinely like the FRN backlock Seki knives the most in the lineup - by far.

- THOSE imo represent very good "bang for the buck".. not fancy, but superreliable workhorses, again and again refined designs, to me with FRN the best handle material, rather thin blade stock, reliable lock, light, but sturdy, some great (and even lighter) Salt versions.
It sure also helps that things like perfect centering or a slight lock rock don´t bother me personally at all.

- And the "Sekis" are really affordable:
Just looked up some US prices:
While the new PM2 LW in BD1N costs around $150, one can have a simiarly sized VG10 Endela for under $100... $125 for Spy 27, and if one goes up to the PM2 LW price even in K390 ($148)...

(To be clear: I believe that the PM2 LW is absolutely worth the price they ask for!
I am not complaining though either that I happen to prefer an Endela and have to spend less... )

[vivi]

I'd like to see them expand the FRN / BD1N offerings from the US for additional low cost options.

Obviously they're already doing that with the PM2, but it'd be neat to see the Military 2, Manix XL etc. done that way as well.

I appreciate Spydercos sense of ergonomics, excellent geometry, and overall high quality & execution, but I don't chase the high edge retention dragon anymore.

I really like a well heat treated budget steel. I'd rather spend $100-150 on a work knife with a tough, quick to sharpen steel I'd have no second thoughts about using hard than pay $300 for something with extreme edge retention but much lower toughness.

I enjoy using steels like VG10, AUS8, AUS10, BD1, BD1N, 420HC, etc. I'm glad Spyderco still offers a lot of models in steels like that. In most cases those steels give me everything I need. The other 10% of the time any of the salt steels have me covered.

[James Y]

I also love the Seki lineup. I actually like Seki and Golden almost the same, maybe Golden a little more. However, Seki knives are outstanding workhorses for the cost, and I would never feel under-knifed with only a Seki backlock.

I also really like basic steels like VG-10. Personally, I much prefer it (and S30V) over something that has super edge-holding but is more finicky, like S110V, for my uses.

Jim

[Paul Ardbeg]

Some great models coming from Seki! When I think of Seki, FRN and workhorse, my Endura in K390 comes to mind. A lot of great models in K390 are made in Seki!

[Mage7]

Yeah, but I can get a very nicely made button lock in S90V with a 3.5" blade from a Chinese company that shall not be named because Sal has asked other members not to mention them. A very nice liner lock from an American company still costs under $50 even with D2 steel. Meanwhile there are some French knives that are some of the sliciest thin blades you can find and come in a decent carbon and stainless steel with a perfectly functional lock for $20. And then there's a bunch of different Swedish options.

Personally I don't see the value in a VG-10 blade with FRN handles when the maker I previously mentioned with the $50 D2 liner lock has also offered versions in S35VN and MagnaCut. And even better values are to be had if one has no objections to supporting Chinese companies.

And I know everyone wants to defend back locks, and it's fine if that's a preference people have, but in 2026 when there's over half a dozen other lock designs with similar strength and more convenient function, then it's kind of funny to me that people still insist that function over form is the justification for preferring such minimalism.

I mean my issue is that if you took a Byrd that's a 1:1 facsimile of some of the FRN lockback models you mentioned, most people would be extremely hard pressed to notice a difference--and honestly without head-to-head empirical data I think all anecdotal experience of it would be heavily biased. Meanwhile the Byrd model costs 1/3 or even 1/4 of the price.

It's fine if people like them and want to keep buying them. Perhaps the value isn't in the materials, craftsmanship or function but rather in less tangible things like supporting American businesses, Spyderco specifically, etc. I don't see a problem with that but I kinda feel like people are being slightly disingenuous with themselves. It's okay to want to pay more for a product from a company you like, but I don't think it's good for people to fool themselves into thinking the material value is really there, and definitely don't like the sort of mass hysteria it has rendered where there's a cohort of people to chime in saying, "Yeah, antiquated locks with no real superior performance characteristics than other more affordable offers are totally worth the over inflated prices and people only dislike them because they want fidgety flicky knives!"

Anyway that sounds harsher than I really intended it to already so I better stop there... But suffice it to say I am firmly of the opposite opinion lol

In the end though people want what they want, and will buy what they want to buy, and that's kind of what actually determines value. I don't agree with the ideas of the value assessed, and people are going to buy what they want whether I think they should or not, but sometimes I also wonder how much the market for them detracts from the quality of the market otherwise. Like, consider the K390 offerings and how they were ONLY on the FRN lock-back models and I doubt that would be the case if there weren't so many people insisting that they'd still worth it, and instead of a $125 Delica or Endura in K390 we could have seen a $180 Manix 2 or Para Military 2 in K390. On the other hand, without being able to put them in the line up they did, they might have not tried our K390 at all.

[aicolainen]

Made me realize once more and that´s what I´d like to share:
In a way I got really lucky in that I just genuinely like the FRN backlock Seki knives the most in the lineup - by far.

THOSE imo represent very good "bang for the buck".. not fancy, but superreliable workhorses, again and again refined designs, to me with FRN the best handle material, rather thin blade stock, reliable lock, light, but sturdy, some great (and even lighter) Salt versions.
It sure also helps that things like perfect centering or a slight lock rock don´t bother me personally at all.

I fall into that category as well. Seki FRN models have topped my list of most used and carried for years.

It was probably the more expensive knives with fancy locks and fidgety actions that ignited my knife interest at first, but with time I realized I was more attracted to utility.

Later I fell into the knife steel trap for a little while. Not for being a snob, but out of curiosity. Some of those high end steels are really fascinating creations. After a while I again realized that easier to maintain-, middle of the road steels have more utility for me, and once again utility won the day.

Yesterday I did something strange. I clicked on a watch collection video with Casey Neistat and Teddy Baldassarre. Maybe I clicked in error, I don't know. Neither person really appeal to me.
Anyway, I ended up watching the whole thing as it quickly turned out to be surprisingly relatable. Casey owning several Rolexes among others, yet preferring and feeling more connected to his square G-shock.
I don't have as much f... you money as Casey, but I feel very similarly about things. Even though I often have a nicer alternative, I end up using what feels more practical and purposeful. And through use and wear, those items become more meaningful and more valuable to me than the spotless, expensive thing I keep in a sock drawer. I hadn't really thought about it until watching the video, so I guess you really never know what's worth a watch.

[Scandi Grind]

It's fine if people like them and want to keep buying them. Perhaps the value isn't in the materials, craftsmanship or function but rather in less tangible things like supporting American businesses, Spyderco specifically, etc. I don't see a problem with that but I kinda feel like people are being slightly disingenuous with themselves. It's okay to want to pay more for a product from a company you like, but I don't think it's good for people to fool themselves into thinking the material value is really there, and definitely don't like the sort of mass hysteria it has rendered where there's a cohort of people to chime in saying, "Yeah, antiquated locks with no real superior performance characteristics than other more affordable offers are totally worth the over inflated prices and people only dislike them because they want fidgety flicky knives!"

I am not sure I am catching the whole point of what you are saying, but I think it's a little odd whenever backlock knives are described as antiquated. It's older sure, but I guess that never comes to mind for me. They just work, so I like that. New stuff works too, but that hasn't made backlocks any less functional for me. Fixed blades are older than history, but they work, so I like them.

As far as value is concerned, I think you sort of touched on the important part, although you seem to think it is sometimes a problem I guess. People buy what they want, and I think that's fine. For me I don't want Chinese knives. I want what appeals to me more than something cheap. Cheapness isn't the most valuable thing to me. I have a $250 chef knife. Most people wouldn't consider that good value, but I value the handmade craftsmanship more than cheapness. As for what everyone else likes, I just shrug and say "go for it!" It is not strange to me that other people will value things differently than me. I don't think most knife enthusiasts are just fooling themselves into thinking things are better or worse than they are, they just value different things.

[kennethsime]

The new PM2LW in 15V is set to retail for ~$170 after discounts, which I think is a very good value indeed.

As much as I love my Crucarta spydies, I think the high-performance steel in a lightweight FRN platform (i.e. the Seki recipe) is and will always be the quintessential Spyderco for me.

[vivi]

And I know everyone wants to defend back locks, and it's fine if that's a preference people have, but in 2026 when there's over half a dozen other lock designs with similar strength and more convenient function, then it's kind of funny to me that people still insist that function over form is the justification for preferring such minimalism.

Show me a lock that is available on an incredible range of designs that works better at keeping the knife locked open and locked closed, is completely ambi, can offer zero play, doesn't require a choil or large notch like a smock, and can be scaled down to tiny folders or up to mega folders and I'll switch to it today.

What you call antiquated performs better for me than anything else I've tried.

Also, when it comes to price, a lot of us completely exclude chinese knives from that discussion. That's something a lot of folks don't factor in, they simply look at the price and the materials but don't consider country of origin, warranty, heat treat, etc. A lot of chinese D2, for example, wasn't D2 and wasn't heat treated well for many years. Things are better today but definitely not perfect.

[Wartstein]

......
And I know everyone wants to defend back locks, and it's fine if that's a preference people have, but in 2026 when there's over half a dozen other lock designs with similar strength and more convenient function, then it's kind of funny to me that people still insist that function over form is the justification for preferring such minimalism.
.....

Thanks for your input, appreciate it and respect your opinion, though I obviously disagree.

For now just on your backlock-point: Actually I am not one who "wants to defend it", but just like @Scandi Grind genuinely think it is a great option, that just happened to come (much) earlier than other locktypes, but is not outdated at all!

- To me actually very convenient to use, with several good methods of opening and closing (even a "fingers all the time out of the blade path" for those who think that´s important).
- Great closing bias, so very safe in pocket
- In principle rather simple design, not much that can really break
- Does not interfere much with handle ergos
- And allows for really thin handles and thus great carry options

Honestly, to me personally still the best, safest and most convenient locktype...

[silver & black]

Interesting discussion. I can see both points of view. I wish I was a fan of FRN... I'm just not. Give me micarta,G10, carbon fibre, titanium any day. I know it costs more, but that's what I like. I wish I could get 15V and K390 without FRN. Oh well..... I'll wait and see what might come down the road in the future.

[vivi]

Interesting discussion. I can see both points of view. I wish I was a fan of FRN... I'm just not. Give me micarta,G10, carbon fibre, titanium any day. I know it costs more, but that's what I like. I wish I could get 15V and K390 without FRN. Oh well..... I'll wait and see what might come down the road in the future.

I'm pretty sure there's still 15V Military 2's available.

[aicolainen]

And I know everyone wants to defend back locks, and it's fine if that's a preference people have, but in 2026 when there's over half a dozen other lock designs with similar strength and more convenient function, then it's kind of funny to me that people still insist that function over form is the justification for preferring such minimalism.

_{Note: I see in my preview that your comment seem to have triggered a few responses. I haven't read them and I'm not writing this to poor fuel on a well lit fire. It's an honest reply to be read independent of what other may have commented in the meantime.}

I feel somewhat qualified, and maybe even obliged to comment on this.
I'm relatively new to folding knife. There's not much of a tradition for making or carrying such knives here, so I have no former experience or nostalgic relationship with any lock type before crashing into the world of EDC and folding knives around 2016.

My first impression back then was that slip joints and back locks looked boring and outdated. I couldn't believe so many new and current models were released with this antiquated lock when there was compression locks, RILs and CBBLs to choose from.
With very few exceptions (e.g. a Salt) most all of the knives I bought the first couple of years were anything but back locks.

It was only through occasional use, again Salts, that I slowly started to appreciate back locks. More or less against my own assumed preference.
That sway toward back locks only accelerated after two incidents with detent based locks opening in my pocket.
I still don't dislike the other locks, it's just that I've realized back locks make more sense to me. They have the safest (IMO) and most predictable operation (open/close) in the environments and situations I use my knives. Allow for thin blade stock. And has one of the strongest closing bias's of any lock. In the beginning Salts were also a big reason, this harkens back to the environment part for me, but is less of a gatekeeper to other lock types nowadays. Still back locks are a very suitable platform for salts, and where you find the widest range of models.

I really believe my preference for the back lock is the result of extensive experience and thorough assessment over the last 10 years and not superstition or misguided feelings. For me it's function and form at its best - for my use. I really believe that.

[Wartstein]

......
I really believe my preference for the back lock is the result of extensive experience and thorough assessment over the last 10 years and not superstition or misguided feelings. For me it's function and form at its best - for my use. I really believe that.

Could have been exactly my words... if I was able to put it as well as you did.

[TkoK83Spy]

I'm also a backlock backer. The Manix and Shaman are two of my favorite models during my nearly decade with consistent Spyderco use. Sure, I like the CBBL and the compression locks that they have. No problems, no complaints. But as the years have gone on I'm finding myself actually carrying my backlocks more often. I also know if it were to come to using a folder heavily, to the point of thinking "maybe I should use a fixed blade here" I would feel most comfortable with one of my backlocks.

I also completely agree with it being tried and true for so many years and many of the other advantages already stated.

It took me a few years to really come around to it. I never not liked it, just didn't prefer it. Now, it seems to be the lock on a lot of the Spyderco's that catch my attention and many times those are the cheaper models. That's a double win in today's world!

[James Y]

I love back locks. But I also really like compression locks. Each are great, and I like each for different reasons. And then there are other great innovative locks as well.

I do not see back locks as antiquated. Many users prefer back locks as their favorite lock type. As long as this remains true, back locks will never be outdated.

Instead of being outdated, back locks are actually time-proven. There are still knife owners who carry and use back lock knives they've been carrying and using for decades.

Anyway, there are enough lock types, and knife manufacturers out there, that if someone doesn't like a certain lock type, or whatever about a particular model or models, they can simply purchase what they DO like, and avoid purchasing what they don't like.

Jim

[Kleon]

Backlock for me if its going in my waistband. Like the negative closing bias for safety here.

I have a pretty extensive collection of Spydoes dating back to the 90s and carried a og 440v Millie for over 15 years off hand duty pants as a utility/let go of my sidearm piece. Nowadays i require a smaller folder hidden in a small utility cargo pocket away from my duty belt due to assignment in a facility with a lot of hands on action. Cant afford to have my own knife found and deployed against me while restraining someone. All that said and having all manner of Spydies available I choose to carry a serrated Rockjumper i pickec up discounted for fifty dollars. Fantastic duty knife. Worked great cutting a side airbag out of a car in a recent emergency rendering aid at a crash i witnessed driving home from shift. I have gifted several of the same Rockjumpers to friends all of whom love this knife.

Seki surely does make a great product for the price that can be trusted to perform in an emergency.

[Wowbagger]

The only FRN that I LIKE is the older Volcano pattern . Hopefully it is discernable in this image . The advantage is that it is not directional / it is equally grippy in all directions .

Sure it must have been a marvelous miracle to finally be able to mold the recent directional FRN and have it come out right . . .
but
give me the old Volcano any day .

PS : this Tasman Salt has THE BEST Titanium pocket clip in the business as well ; it has a wider range of opening than any other clip , Ti or other wise , that I have found . It grips just right (not too tight ; Cold Steel I am glaring at you ya d*mn fools) .
Not that I am opinionated or anything .

[Wartstein]

.... Like, consider the K390 offerings and how they were ONLY on the FRN lock-back models and I doubt that would be the case if there weren't so many people insisting that they'd still worth it, and instead of a $125 Delica or Endura in K390 we could have seen a $180 Manix 2 or Para Military 2 in K390. On the other hand, without being able to put them in the line up they did, they might have not tried our K390 at all.

What I initially mainly thought of when starting this thread:

1.) Within Spydercos whole lineup I feel "lucky that I am a Seki guy" in any case:

Cause for me, subjectively and personally, the FRN Seki line is just "better" than any other Spyderco line, and this for comparably little money:
Like in: If I want a roughly 3.5" bladed Spyderco, I genuinely prefer an FRN Endela in pretty much every aspect over a G10 PM2 and would actually go for the Endela, even if it was a lot more expensive than the PM2.
But it is not, but clearly the opposite, and so I AM lucky that I happen to prefer Seki folders. And I came to this through a lot of real use.
So to me it is actually great that I can have a K390 Endela for a bit less than even the FRN PM2 in BD1N.

But, 2.) To me also generally, so compared with products of other makers, the Seki folders are great bang-for-the-buck - options!

Might not be the case if one only focuses on the raw materials alone, but what is done with those materials, how the knives are executed and refined, how well they just work in real use is amazing.
I mean look at things like a Salt 2: A lot of thought and experiment has to be gone in it becoming so superlight, but still really sturdy, completely rust proof, great performing... worth every cent imo!

[Wartstein]

Show me a lock that is available on an incredible range of designs that works better at keeping the knife locked open and locked closed, is completely ambi, can offer zero play, doesn't require a choil or large notch like a smock, and can be scaled down to tiny folders or up to mega folders and I'll switch to it today.

What you call antiquated performs better for me than anything else I've tried.

Also, when it comes to price, a lot of us completely exclude chinese knives from that discussion. That's something a lot of folks don't factor in, they simply look at the price and the materials but don't consider country of origin, warranty, heat treat, etc. A lot of chinese D2, for example, wasn't D2 and wasn't heat treated well for many years. Things are better today but definitely not perfect.

Fully agree, especially on what you say about backlocks, but also the rest