Another Cheap Knife question

[Naperville]

Update:

The knife seller told me just what you and I know.
You get what you pay for.

So how do we reconcile this fact with the apparent conflicting fact that you can buy a good quality Mora, Opinel, Buck, MAM, Antonini, and other NON CHINESE budget knives at a price under 20 dollars?

Vivi? Doc? Ankerson? Naperville?

I've owned a few Buck and Ka-Bar fixed blades. I think that I sold my Bucks, they were collectors items. Nice patterns. If I was trying to stay away from extremely expensive knives and get a fixed blade, I'd seriously look into a Buck or a Ka-Bar.

[Ankerson]

Update:

The knife seller told me just what you and I know.
You get what you pay for.

So how do we reconcile this fact with the apparent conflicting fact that you can buy a good quality Mora, Opinel, Buck, MAM, Antonini, and other NON CHINESE budget knives at a price under 20 dollars?

Vivi? Doc? Ankerson? Naperville?

Bottom line.

You get what you pay for, period.

Companies are NOT giving away products for free to customers, they wouldn't stay in business for long doing that.

Cost of manufacture, materials and other overhead are factored into pricing.

YOU WILL NOT EVER GET A HIGH QUALITY KNIFE FOR UNDER $20.

The numbers just don't add up, that is just the way it is, there isn't any room for higher end materials and production costs while making a profit. They would lose money on every single unit and be out of business pretty fast.

Knives that are serviceable, yes, but high quality is an extreme stretch to say the least in this price range.

You are mistaking serviceable for quality here, and that is the main issue. They are absolutely NOT the same thing.

Now back in the 70's etc yeah it was possible, but not in todays money.

But a $20 knife back in the 70's would be more than $162 in todays money.

Think about that one for a min letting it rattle around in the brain pan awhile.

Or flipped around.

$20 in todays money would be under $3 in 1970.

Think about this one:

Would you buy a brand new car today for $4,000?

And drive your family around in it?

[vivi]

I think Buck 110 Lightweights are high quality USA made knives and they can be purchased for under $20 + shipping.

https://www.chicagoknifeworks.com/buckl ... l-no-shea/

Only thing they don't do well is hold an edge as long as modern super steels on abrasive materials, but they cut well, have a comfortable handle, secure lock up, etc.

I'd put my Victorinox Recruits on that list too, and I've gotten Cold Steel SRKC's for $18 + shipping so those as well.

[Ankerson]

I think Buck 110 Lightweights are high quality USA made knives and they can be purchased for under $20 + shipping.

https://www.chicagoknifeworks.com/buckl ... l-no-shea/

Only thing they don't do well is hold an edge as long as modern super steels on abrasive materials, but they cut well, have a comfortable handle, secure lock up, etc.

I'd put my Victorinox Recruits on that list too, and I've gotten Cold Steel SRKC's for $18 + shipping so those as well.

Reg price is $29.95 on those.

On sale for 1/2 price for some reason, maybe selling off overstock, maybe discontinuing the model?

If I remember Buck came out with a pocket clip version, but that is more expensive.

[James Y]

There are knife brands that have relatively inexpensive knives (like Victorinox) that are very good. My most expensive Vic kitchen knife was a 7" Santoku that cost $40. The cheapest was a Vic paring knife that I got on sale at a cooking supply store for under $10. Not to mention all my SAKs. The only knives I use in the kitchen anymore are my Victorinox knives.

But that wasn't the original question.

The original question was about some super-cheap, clearly Chinese-made, low-end liner lock knife. The kind you might find being sold at a Big 5 Sporting Goods store. I've never seen any knives on sale at any gas stations, but if they were, those would be the types of knives they would sell. Or the types of knives that used to be marketed late nights on the Home Shopping Network. And no, I wouldn't buy any such knives.

Meanwhile, for me personally, Victorinox and Spyderco run neck-and-neck as my two favorite and most-used knife brands, but for different reasons.

Jim

[Ankerson]

There are knife brands that have relatively inexpensive knives (like Victorinox) that are very good. My most expensive Vic kitchen knife was a 7" Santoku that cost $40. The cheapest was a Vic paring knife that I got on sale at a cooking supply store for under $10. Not to mention all my SAKs. The only knives I use in the kitchen anymore are my Victorinox knives.

But that wasn't the original question.

The original question was about some super-cheap, clearly Chinese-made, low-end liner lock knife. The kind you might find being sold at a Big 5 Sporting Goods store. I've never seen any knives on sale at any gas stations, but if they were, those would be the types of knives they would sell. Or the types of knives that used to be marketed late nights on the Home Shopping Network. And no, I wouldn't buy any such knives.

Meanwhile, for me personally, Victorinox and Spyderco run neck-and-neck as my two favorite and most-used knife brands, but for different reasons.

Jim

Jim,

There are people that will absolutely swear by them though.

Anything cheap is good you know.

Manufactures love suckers though that they can sell their trash to.

People keep buying that garbage so they keep making more of it.

Laughing all the way to the bank.

Jim

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Update:

The knife seller told me just what you and I know.
You get what you pay for.

So how do we reconcile this fact with the apparent conflicting fact that you can buy a good quality Mora, Opinel, Buck, MAM, Antonini, and other NON CHINESE budget knives at a price under 20 dollars?

Vivi? Doc? Ankerson? Naperville?

Bottom line.

You get what you pay for, period.

Companies are NOT giving away products for free to customers, they wouldn't stay in business for long doing that.

Cost of manufacture, materials and other overhead are factored into pricing.

YOU WILL NOT EVER GET A HIGH QUALITY KNIFE FOR UNDER $20.

The numbers just don't add up, that is just the way it is, there isn't any room for higher end materials and production costs while making a profit. They would lose money on every single unit and be out of business pretty fast.

Knives that are serviceable, yes, but high quality is an extreme stretch to say the least in this price range.

You are mistaking serviceable for quality here, and that is the main issue. They are absolutely NOT the same thing.

Now back in the 70's etc yeah it was possible, but not in todays money.

But a $20 knife back in the 70's would be more than $162 in todays money.

Think about that one for a min letting it rattle around in the brain pan awhile.

Or flipped around.

$20 in todays money would be under $3 in 1970.

Think about this one:

Would you buy a brand new car today for $4,000?

And drive your family around in it?

Thank you. This is exactly the kind of wisdom we need to know. I am so happy you are on this forum, Ankerson.

From all my experience and that of others, you are right.

A friend of mine who I ran this same basic issue by said to me, "No matter what anyone says, the laws of economics are as unmovable by humans as the laws of thermodynamics."

This is very important, the distinction between servicable quality vs high quality. I did not consider that.

Real example: After vivi's excellent videos I asked a knife seller (different than the one selling the Chinese made liner lock) how Opinel and Mora make great quality knives at under 20 or 30 US dollars?

The answers I was told:

1 They have been making knives for over 100 years.
2 Both companies use more local sourced materials. Steel from Europe. This cuts down transportation costs, which as you know are huge today.

For example, I wanted to gift a knife book to a knife user in a foreign country who I spoke with on a forum. To my shock the shipping cost was much higher than the original cost of the book itself! The book only cost about 10 US dollars.

3 Both Opinel and Mora can probably make their knives even better, like Spyderco quality, but this would increase the price.
That is not a put down on them. Just that Spyderco makes extremely high quality knives. Imagine an Opinel with Spyderco Police or Manix level materials.

Ankerson, regarding the cars: Yes, I am not yet a car driver but a friend warned me that when I do drive, do not fall for the 1000 to 2000 dollar car ads.
I showed him an ad for an alleged "sold by owner" car deal. It was listed as a "mint condition" mini van for 1200 US Dollars. Depending on the mileage and other factors, does that sound like a rip off? I think it was listed at being 15 years old but I don't remember if they listed mileage.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I think Buck 110 Lightweights are high quality USA made knives and they can be purchased for under $20 + shipping.

https://www.chicagoknifeworks.com/buckl ... l-no-shea/

Only thing they don't do well is hold an edge as long as modern super steels on abrasive materials, but they cut well, have a comfortable handle, secure lock up, etc.

I'd put my Victorinox Recruits on that list too, and I've gotten Cold Steel SRKC's for $18 + shipping so those as well.

Thank you! You found a winner. Would you trust the tip/point to hold up well, being a clip point, as long as one does not try to pry with it?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

There are knife brands that have relatively inexpensive knives (like Victorinox) that are very good. My most expensive Vic kitchen knife was a 7" Santoku that cost $40. The cheapest was a Vic paring knife that I got on sale at a cooking supply store for under $10. Not to mention all my SAKs. The only knives I use in the kitchen anymore are my Victorinox knives.

But that wasn't the original question.

The original question was about some super-cheap, clearly Chinese-made, low-end liner lock knife. The kind you might find being sold at a Big 5 Sporting Goods store. I've never seen any knives on sale at any gas stations, but if they were, those would be the types of knives they would sell. Or the types of knives that used to be marketed late nights on the Home Shopping Network. And no, I wouldn't buy any such knives.

Meanwhile, for me personally, Victorinox and Spyderco run neck-and-neck as my two favorite and most-used knife brands, but for different reasons.

Jim

What is your opinion of the later Victorinox lock blades that have a type of liner lock and an opening hole?

[vivi]

I think Buck 110 Lightweights are high quality USA made knives and they can be purchased for under $20 + shipping.

https://www.chicagoknifeworks.com/buckl ... l-no-shea/

Only thing they don't do well is hold an edge as long as modern super steels on abrasive materials, but they cut well, have a comfortable handle, secure lock up, etc.

I'd put my Victorinox Recruits on that list too, and I've gotten Cold Steel SRKC's for $18 + shipping so those as well.

Reg price is $29.95 on those.

On sale for 1/2 price for some reason, maybe selling off overstock, maybe discontinuing the model?

If I remember Buck came out with a pocket clip version, but that is more expensive.

Not sure why CKW has them that cheap, but I've found Buck 110 lightweights for $20-25 shipped from other stores too, or for that same price locally. Not bad for US made. I got one from cutlery shoppe for $25 shipped, the non fingergroove version with sheath.

The pocket clip versions have thumb studs and a slimmer handle, and the cheapest I've seen those is $25-30.

Another one that comes to mind is this japanese made tojiro vg10 bread knife I acquired for $17.



If you look there are quality made knives in the $5-30 range.

There's definitely a ton of unsafe junk knives in that range too though.

If I wanted a dirt cheap one handed folder, I'd be looking at a Byrd, Buck Bantam line, maybe one of the cheaper Kershaws. If I was ok with two handed operation, I'd look at Victorinox, MAM, one of those 110 LW folders, etc.

They certainly won't compare to my 15V Military 2, but they will be far safer than a BudK Mtech without costing much more.

Finding a cheap, reliable fixed blade is even easier. For example, the US made Ontario bread knife I used in my PE ve SE thread in gen discussion ran me a whopping $3.64

[Ankerson]

I think Buck 110 Lightweights are high quality USA made knives and they can be purchased for under $20 + shipping.

https://www.chicagoknifeworks.com/buckl ... l-no-shea/

Only thing they don't do well is hold an edge as long as modern super steels on abrasive materials, but they cut well, have a comfortable handle, secure lock up, etc.

I'd put my Victorinox Recruits on that list too, and I've gotten Cold Steel SRKC's for $18 + shipping so those as well.

Reg price is $29.95 on those.

On sale for 1/2 price for some reason, maybe selling off overstock, maybe discontinuing the model?

If I remember Buck came out with a pocket clip version, but that is more expensive.

Not sure why CKW has them that cheap, but I've found Buck 110 lightweights for $20-25 shipped from other stores too, or for that same price locally. Not bad for US made. I got one from cutlery shoppe for $25 shipped, the non fingergroove version with sheath.

The pocket clip versions have thumb studs and a slimmer handle, and the cheapest I've seen those is $25-30.

Another one that comes to mind is this japanese made tojiro vg10 bread knife I acquired for $17.



If you look there are quality made knives in the $5-30 range.

There's definitely a ton of unsafe junk knives in that range too though.

If I wanted a dirt cheap one handed folder, I'd be looking at a Byrd, Buck Bantam line, maybe one of the cheaper Kershaws. If I was ok with two handed operation, I'd look at Victorinox, MAM, one of those 110 LW folders, etc.

They certainly won't compare to my 15V Military 2, but they will be far safer than a BudK Mtech without costing much more.

Finding a cheap, reliable fixed blade is even easier. For example, the US made Ontario bread knife I used in my PE ve SE thread in gen discussion ran me a whopping $3.64

I think the old style Voyagers are MUCH better knives and given a choice I would use those.

[Ankerson]

Update:

The knife seller told me just what you and I know.
You get what you pay for.

So how do we reconcile this fact with the apparent conflicting fact that you can buy a good quality Mora, Opinel, Buck, MAM, Antonini, and other NON CHINESE budget knives at a price under 20 dollars?

Vivi? Doc? Ankerson? Naperville?

Bottom line.

You get what you pay for, period.

Companies are NOT giving away products for free to customers, they wouldn't stay in business for long doing that.

Cost of manufacture, materials and other overhead are factored into pricing.

YOU WILL NOT EVER GET A HIGH QUALITY KNIFE FOR UNDER $20.

The numbers just don't add up, that is just the way it is, there isn't any room for higher end materials and production costs while making a profit. They would lose money on every single unit and be out of business pretty fast.

Knives that are serviceable, yes, but high quality is an extreme stretch to say the least in this price range.

You are mistaking serviceable for quality here, and that is the main issue. They are absolutely NOT the same thing.

Now back in the 70's etc yeah it was possible, but not in todays money.

But a $20 knife back in the 70's would be more than $162 in todays money.

Think about that one for a min letting it rattle around in the brain pan awhile.

Or flipped around.

$20 in todays money would be under $3 in 1970.

Think about this one:

Would you buy a brand new car today for $4,000?

And drive your family around in it?

Thank you. This is exactly the kind of wisdom we need to know. I am so happy you are on this forum, Ankerson.

From all my experience and that of others, you are right.

A friend of mine who I ran this same basic issue by said to me, "No matter what anyone says, the laws of economics are as unmovable by humans as the laws of thermodynamics."

This is very important, the distinction between servicable quality vs high quality. I did not consider that.

Real example: After vivi's excellent videos I asked a knife seller (different than the one selling the Chinese made liner lock) how Opinel and Mora make great quality knives at under 20 or 30 US dollars?

The answers I was told:

1 They have been making knives for over 100 years.
2 Both companies use more local sourced materials. Steel from Europe. This cuts down transportation costs, which as you know are huge today.

For example, I wanted to gift a knife book to a knife user in a foreign country who I spoke with on a forum. To my shock the shipping cost was much higher than the original cost of the book itself! The book only cost about 10 US dollars.

3 Both Opinel and Mora can probably make their knives even better, like Spyderco quality, but this would increase the price.
That is not a put down on them. Just that Spyderco makes extremely high quality knives. Imagine an Opinel with Spyderco Police or Manix level materials.

Ankerson, regarding the cars: Yes, I am not yet a car driver but a friend warned me that when I do drive, do not fall for the 1000 to 2000 dollar car ads.
I showed him an ad for an alleged "sold by owner" car deal. It was listed as a "mint condition" mini van for 1200 US Dollars. Depending on the mileage and other factors, does that sound like a rip off? I think it was listed at being 15 years old but I don't remember if they listed mileage.

I was referring to a proposed brand new 2026 car for $4,000 as an example.

[vivi]

I think Buck 110 Lightweights are high quality USA made knives and they can be purchased for under $20 + shipping.

https://www.chicagoknifeworks.com/buckl ... l-no-shea/

Only thing they don't do well is hold an edge as long as modern super steels on abrasive materials, but they cut well, have a comfortable handle, secure lock up, etc.

I'd put my Victorinox Recruits on that list too, and I've gotten Cold Steel SRKC's for $18 + shipping so those as well.

Reg price is $29.95 on those.

On sale for 1/2 price for some reason, maybe selling off overstock, maybe discontinuing the model?

If I remember Buck came out with a pocket clip version, but that is more expensive.

Not sure why CKW has them that cheap, but I've found Buck 110 lightweights for $20-25 shipped from other stores too, or for that same price locally. Not bad for US made. I got one from cutlery shoppe for $25 shipped, the non fingergroove version with sheath.

The pocket clip versions have thumb studs and a slimmer handle, and the cheapest I've seen those is $25-30.

Another one that comes to mind is this japanese made tojiro vg10 bread knife I acquired for $17.



If you look there are quality made knives in the $5-30 range.

There's definitely a ton of unsafe junk knives in that range too though.

If I wanted a dirt cheap one handed folder, I'd be looking at a Byrd, Buck Bantam line, maybe one of the cheaper Kershaws. If I was ok with two handed operation, I'd look at Victorinox, MAM, one of those 110 LW folders, etc.

They certainly won't compare to my 15V Military 2, but they will be far safer than a BudK Mtech without costing much more.

Finding a cheap, reliable fixed blade is even easier. For example, the US made Ontario bread knife I used in my PE ve SE thread in gen discussion ran me a whopping $3.64

I think the old style Voyagers are MUCH better knives and given a choice I would use those.

I agree, but those are harder to find and rare to see for sale under $80 in my experience.

[Scandi Grind]

Cost of manufacture, materials and other overhead are factored into pricing.

YOU WILL NOT EVER GET A HIGH QUALITY KNIFE FOR UNDER $20.

I do not equate quality directly to cost. To me a quality tool is one that does it's intended job efficiently, comfortably, and the manufacturer can make the product consistently. If it has higher edge retention, better corrsion resistance, more expensive handle material, etc. none of that necessarily is making a knife higher quality for me, even though all of it increases cost to buy. I think quality is best defined as a combination of function and consistency. I know a lot of cheap knives that are function very well at their job and have consistent performance across examples.

Obviously there are different ways to look at the situation, but that is how I evaluate knife quality. I have very function forward thinking with knives, and that extends to my interpretation of quality.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Obviously the maker would decide the final price but if you all were to estimate: How much do you guess a Mora knife or Opinel folder would be if they made a series with VG10 or S30V stainless, or similiar steel, or say N690? Could they keep the cost to below the 50 or 100 dollar mark or not likely?

[Ankerson]

Cost of manufacture, materials and other overhead are factored into pricing.

YOU WILL NOT EVER GET A HIGH QUALITY KNIFE FOR UNDER $20.

I do not equate quality directly to cost. To me a quality tool is one that does it's intended job efficiently, comfortably, and the manufacturer can make the product consistently. If it has higher edge retention, better corrsion resistance, more expensive handle material, etc. none of that necessarily is making a knife higher quality for me, even though all of it increases cost to buy. I think quality is best defined as a combination of function and consistency. I know a lot of cheap knives that are function very well at their job and have consistent performance across examples.

Obviously there are different ways to look at the situation, but that is how I evaluate knife quality. I have very function forward thinking with knives, and that extends to my interpretation of quality.

You are confusing serviceability and quality. They are not the same thing at all.

One can use a butter knife as a screwdriver, a can lid will cut stuff and a tenderizer will work as a hammer too.

[Scandi Grind]

Not confused no, just a different deffinition of quality. For example if I had two of the same exact knife in front of me except one was 01 steel and one was Magna Cut, the Magna Cut would obviously have better corrosion resistance and ege retention, but if the were both ground with the same precision then I wouldn't say the Magna Cut was higher quality, it just had more expensive material. The same would go for two of the same shape handle, one with Micarta, and one with carbon fiber, I wouldn't say the carbon fiber was any better quality just more costly to use. If the craftsmanship is equal and the design is the same, then I would say quality is equal.

Now if I had two of the same kitchen knife, except one had a very thick edge and the other properly thin, then I would say that the first knife wasn't good quality because it doesn't do it's job well. Or if that same knife was properly thin, but the heat treats did not come out consistently hard from the manufacturer, then I would say it is low quality because it isn't consistent.

I will add that there is obviously some nuance to what we can call quality, such as high end milling on a handle. Even though it may not add anything to the function of the knife, we could say that it is higher "quality" than the same knife without milling on it. However I don't tend to factor that into the quality of a knife very often because I don't find it very usefull to think about it that way. I would tend to say that the knife might have high quality milling on the handle, but not so much that the milling made the knife higher quality.

Price can't be the only factor determining a knife's quality even if you consider it as a part. There are some ludicrously expensive knives that are very low quality, so something else is also coming into play. I'm curious what other factors you would consider to play a role when you are evaluating the quality of a knife?

[Scandi Grind]

You are confusing serviceability and quality. They are not the same thing at all.

One can use a butter knife as a screwdriver, a can lid will cut stuff and a tenderizer will work as a hammer too.

I wouldn't consider any of those options for those roles to be high quality tools because they don't even have good usability, so maybe not the best examples? A butter knife risks buggering screw heads with bad fit, can lids don't cut stuff well and don't have a handle. Meat tenderizer probably isn't heat treated and may begin to deform after hitting things.

Perhaps quality could be devided into a few different parts, quality of use, quality of material, and quality of art. Of the three, quality of use is just most important to me.

[Ankerson]

Not confused no, just a different deffinition of quality. For example if I had two of the same exact knife in front of me except one was 01 steel and one was Magna Cut, the Magna Cut would obviously have better corrosion resistance and ege retention, but if the were both ground with the same precision then I wouldn't say the Magna Cut was higher quality, it just had more expensive material. The same would go for two of the same shape handle, one with Micarta, and one with carbon fiber, I wouldn't say the carbon fiber was any better quality just more costly to use. If the craftsmanship is equal and the design is the same, then I would say quality is equal.

Now if I had two of the same kitchen knife, except one had a very thick edge and the other properly thin, then I would say that the first knife wasn't good quality because it doesn't do it's job well. Or if that same knife was properly thin, but the heat treats did not come out consistently hard from the manufacturer, then I would say it is low quality because it isn't consistent.

I will add that there is obviously some nuance to what we can call quality, such as high end milling on a handle. Even though it may not add anything to the function of the knife, we could say that it is higher "quality" than the same knife without milling on it. However I don't tend to factor that into the quality of a knife very often because I don't find it very usefull to think about it that way. I would tend to say that the knife might have high quality milling on the handle, but not so much that the milling made the knife higher quality.

Price can't be the only factor determining a knife's quality even if you consider it as a part. There are some ludicrously expensive knives that are very low quality, so something else is also coming into play. I'm curious what other factors you would consider to play a role when you are evaluating the quality of a knife?

I haven't seen any ludicrously expensive knives that are very low quality. (Nobody would buy them)

But people will buy ANYTHING that is cheap.

[Ankerson]

As a general example I like to use commercial grade butcher knives.

They are not exactly expensive but are decent quality and serviceable.

They are used for the most part everyday, all day long until they have been worn down to nothing by sharpening's.

They are thrown around, dumped in the sinks with other stuff and washed then used the next day.

They are in fact MUCH BETTER quality and serviceable than a lot of the garbage people love to talk about as high quality, but dirt cheap.

VIVI knows exactly what I am talking about here, commercial knives.