Let's Talk Locks

[Wowbagger]

I'd like to see more of the ball lock. Stainless or ceramic. Ambidextrous.

I'd be curious about a top-mounted lock, but still able to actuate the CBBL. At Blade Show this year, Ocaso knives showed off a prototype with a variant of the shark lock that was inset into the top of the handle. I'm wondering just what could exist for something similar w/ a ball lock (proprietary). The CBBL is already ambidextrous, but my personal experience is that is can be so stiff to operate (have 3 Manixs at the moment) that the force required sometimes causes a momentary loss of control over the knife. I still like the ball lock principle, but a single finger top mount actuation to me seems safer/more secure. I know the locking block for the ball is right there, so some creativity might have to be involved.

EDIT: knife in question ->

You know, a slow thumb roll to open those Manix's won't cause loss of control of the knife. It doesn't always have to a be a ninja flickfest everytime a knife is opened

Gee I thought Red ment releasing the lock for closing . Yes opening is a different story .
I must admit that with my first Manix (what's that nylon handle called ? ) S110V that I was obsessed with using the ball lock to open like an axis lock . . . I have since got away from that .

[Wowbagger]

I'd be curious about a top-mounted lock, but still able to actuate the CBBL. At Blade Show this year, Ocaso knives showed off a prototype with a variant of the shark lock that was inset into the top of the handle. I'm wondering just what could exist for something similar w/ a ball lock (proprietary). The CBBL is already ambidextrous, but my personal experience is that is can be so stiff to operate (have 3 Manixs at the moment) that the force required sometimes causes a momentary loss of control over the knife. I still like the ball lock principle, but a single finger top mount actuation to me seems safer/more secure. I know the locking block for the ball is right there, so some creativity might have to be involved.

EDIT: knife in question ->

You know, a slow thumb roll to open those Manix's won't cause loss of control of the knife. It doesn't always have to a be a ninja flickfest everytime a knife is opened

Actually I meant trying to close it or disengage the lock. I like slow rolling the Manix, it is so smooth. But I find that the lock spring strength is so high that my fingers work so hard to disengage that it can actualy fumble the knife around leading to more injury. It is easy to lose purchase on it, even with that grippy FRN. To me it is unbalanced and feels sory of like a lawyer decision.

I'm not sure why so many people report the same thing.

I've never once thought about clipping my spring or installing a lighter one.



No issues using the lock with just my thumb, or index finger. If my hands are wet I'll use two fingers.

Hi Vivi !
Don't take this as a slyt but from reading your post for a long time I seem to recal you have larger hands than many / most .
Correct me if I'm wrong .
Some of us with smaller hands (size 9 glove "Large" ) here. . . find it a bit of a straight finger reach from the rear portion of the knife to leave enough hand clearance for the blade to swing closed . If I move my hand forward "into the path of the blade" then point the knife down so there is no chance of the blade swinging into the back of my fingers then it is easier .

Tha's part of it . I just noticed there is no basic "smile face" here so : )

[Michal O]

Button CL has one negative thing, as any manual button lock. It's sometimes too easy to dissengage, in normal edc use it's not a problem. But in stressful situation - you can guess...

@Wowbagger Vision R is pretty comfortable to use and carry, lock is strong. Spyderco could probably make it even more comfortable. How does it look on Vision is part of Snecx design language. His customs were tested by divers at work.

[BeggarSo]

Button CL has one negative thing, as any manual button lock. It's sometimes too easy to dissengage, in normal edc use it's not a problem. But in stressful situation - you can guess...

@Wowbagger Vision R is pretty comfortable to use and carry, lock is strong. Spyderco could probably make it even more comfortable. How does it look on Vision is part of Snecx design language. His customs were tested by divers at work.

Yeah not a thing on the Sage 6. It takes intentional interaction. Placement of the button actuating the compression lock was really well thought out and planned I am certain, speaking as someone who ownes two of these not giving fan service.... well maybe a little bit these knives are great they are kicking others out of the pocket

But if you are in such situations due to occupation or have a real likleyhood of such then for certain fixed blade may be the best way to go.

[gdwtvb]

I'm old enough that I've come full circle. As a kid in the Boy Scouts, we weren't allowed to carry those dangerous locking knives...we weren't allowed to carry any knives at all until we earned our Totin' Chip and then it was limited to slip joints. Soon enough, I got a real knife, Buck 110 lockback, that was the best available locking knife at the time.

I've tried most types of locks, and I was a big fan of framelocks for many years. (Chris Reeve and Sage 2.) I had a bad experience with a liner lock, never trusted those.

I never warmed up to the compression lock, always felt the cutout in the handle was uncomfortable.

I love the ball bearing lock.

After being bit one too many times by a knife that had opened a bit in my pocket, I really began to appreciate the self-closing bias of those first knives I carried as a kid. My most carried knife nowadays is Lil' Native slipjoint. I still remember my early training: use a knife how it was designed to be used, and it won't close on your fingers. It's the easiest knife to open and close, no lock to worry about. (I work in an office environment; I would carry something different if I still worked in a warehouse.)

My second most carried knife is the stealth Chapparal. Back lock, self-close bias, great ergonomics and I do have a soft spot for titanium scales.

My third most carried knife is the manix 2 caged ball bearing lock. While this one is only in my pocket occasionally on weekends, it stays in the car when not in my pocket, ready for any heavier job that arises. I've considered getting titanium scales for it...and I might get the salt manix 2 in magnacut also, but then maybe the native... choices.

One of the advantages of getting older is the ability to be a discerning consumer and having a lifetime of experience to find what works best for yourself. All I have left in my collection of pocketknives are slipjoints, backlocks, and ball bearing locks. The fact that most of them are Spyderco is not a coincidence either.

Grizz

[Wowbagger]

Here is an example to contradict my personal view :
First off I only take one and one half coils off the spring to get it to what I consider a reasonable degree of spring rate .
Second . . . I once had a Manix that I modded this way fall off a foot stool , onto a carpeted floor and the blade popped part way open . Maybe that extra resistance from the cramped sping prevents accidental opening = sort of the self close bias discussed early in the thread

(quoted myself there )

But speaking of locks with lots of self close bias and contrasting it with my perhaps foolishly weakened ball lock that popped open when I dropped it :

Just a day or so ago I dropped my closed Manbug VG-10 . . . (I super reprofiled the blade with the behind the edge so thin it is only good for cutting tape on packaged machine padding . . . AND I LIKE IT THAT WAY ) . . .

[ Sal : it has your superior Leaf Blade ] . . .

the knife fell out of one of the partitions of my knife wallet onto a plywood with linoleum floor at work . As far as I recall it fell about two and a half feet. I was bent over my back pack getting out knives for the day's work .

It popped part way open .
Not complaining / just saying what happened .

[BeggarSo]

Well my 15V military took a 4 foot drop and hit tile I watched it fall in what seemed like slow motion, it hit the floor and bounced and flung the blade half way open.

Glad I was about 3 feet away, no damage just caused me to agree with VIVI even more.

[Danke]

How interesting. What kind of lock does the Manbug have?

[Bill1170]

How interesting. What kind of lock does the Manbug have?

The Manbug has a mid back lock.

[Wartstein]

How interesting. What kind of lock does the Manbug have?

As @Bill1170 said already: Backlock, and I think what @Wowbagger wants to bring across is that backlocks can also open accidentally, despite the strong closing bias.

In my experience this is clearly less likely though than with detent-based locks.
I have to admit though: I would not have thought that especially a Manbug with its very light, short blade could open that easily just from a fall of less than three feet height.

[BeggarSo]

Here are the promised pictures, what they did was take a left handed S45VN PM2 and creates custom scales and a button actuated mechanism to work with the compression lock.

Result = uh Yeah Sal and Eric time to add this as an option.

The button has plenty of strength no way it is getting tripped by accident and the ergos are improved.

I hate to come off as billgerant here but with experience comes strong opinion and to me it is now just plain unintelligent and missing the boat on a profitable evolution of the lock and not to make this a thing across the line up after owning two Smocks in S30V and Cruewear, two Sage 6's and now this custom.

I get it that someone is going to like the thumb cutout Compression lock and allot of that is because they never had one of these.

Closed bias is also improved for those wondering, here are the promised pictures.

[Danke]

Maybe the button lock PM2 (with Titanium scales) will be the anniversary knife.

[BeggarSo]

Maybe the button lock PM2 (with Titanium scales) will be the anniversary knife.

If they do that and some 15V steel with that awesome stonewash which I think is a very good statement for the 50th and idea since the stuff cant be made anymore, (For now) I will pre-order (if Possible) and commit to buying two. (If possible) One to use and one to keep forever.

[Danke]

Motion carried.

[vivi]

I get it that someone is going to like the thumb cutout Compression lock and allot of that is because they never had one of these.

Closed bias is also improved for those wondering, here are the promised pictures.

For me it's more that the thumb cut-out has never presented any issues for me. It doesn't interfere with my grip at all like the generous liner lock cut-out on the Military 1. My thumb goes forward of it in every grip, and it doesn't bother my palm whatsoever.

Increased closing bias is something that would definitely interest me though. Since the button lock version have no real downside, that would sell me on them.

[DavidNM]

I am a big fan of the backlock, thank you Sal and Eric for producing the sprint run of the Lil’Native in 15v and with the back lock, but a button version of the compression lock?

Now you have my attention! That may be the best of both worlds.

[TkoK83Spy]

Nothing beats that "thunk" of a backlock locking up. You know you're in good/safe hands.

[Enactive]

Here are the promised pictures, what they did was take a left handed S45VN PM2 and creates custom scales and a button actuated mechanism to work with the compression lock.

Result = uh Yeah Sal and Eric time to add this as an option.

The button has plenty of strength no way it is getting tripped by accident and the ergos are improved.

I hate to come off as billgerant here but with experience comes strong opinion and to me it is now just plain unintelligent and missing the boat on a profitable evolution of the lock and not to make this a thing across the line up after owning two Smocks in S30V and Cruewear, two Sage 6's and now this custom.

I get it that someone is going to like the thumb cutout Compression lock and allot of that is because they never had one of these.

Closed bias is also improved for those wondering, here are the promised pictures.

Closing bias is improved compared to what? I have a hard time understanding how this mod affects the detent or how it functions. Did they increase spring tension?

[BeggarSo]

I am a big fan of the backlock, thank you Sal and Eric for producing the sprint run of the Lil’Native in 15v and with the back lock, but a button version of the compression lock?

Now you have my attention! That may be the best of both worlds.

Do yourself a big favor get the Sage6 the one in S30V with peel and Ply Carbon Fiber, I have both as the Sage is something I really like, it is kind of like Para3 killer.

However I like the peel and ply better than the straight up Carbon fiber.

Three things got me to blow 3 bills for the Carbon fiber one when I owned the Peel and Ply.

#1. S90V Steel.
#2. Button / Compression lock.
#3. Owning the S30V with the Button/Compression lock.

Also this knife has a double detent ball and superior closed bias compared to my Sage5 Compression lock..

Truthfully, owning the Sage 5 with the compression lock I had little reason to buy the 6.

I read Sage 6 and thought oh how nice yet another Sage meh I'got the 5... followed by how did I miss the 6, followed by no way they gave it the Smock lock, followed by ok getting the S30V dont want to spring for the S90V to using the S30V to aww crap yeah gotta get the S90V also otherwise when this sprint becomes out of stock I will have to pay the secondary market tarrif for missing it when it was available and have to give a pint of blood and pay through the nose.

[vivi]

Not that I'd EDC either but the Sage definitely feels better in my grip than the Para 3.