Let's Talk Locks

[BeggarSo]

For many years now the compression lock has been a game changer, so much so I think it has become taken for granted.

When Spyderco released the Smock with a Button Actuated Compression lock it motivated me to buy a Smock which I still think has a useless unprotected dangerously sharp choil that needs some CQI, BTW.

I guess the Smocks choil would be okay for small hands and skinny fingers, IDK other than that and loosing functional cutting area for a nonfunctional shape great knife, but I digress.

From the day I received the Smock till now I love that lock.

Recently I discovered the Sage 6 and bought the S30V CF peel and ply G10 version. Same button compression lock, love it so much I purchased the S90V version with full CF scales last night.

S90V is my Favorite Stainless.

But wait I also have a PM2 coming in with a custom modified set of scales implementing a Button Actuated Compression Lock.

I guess you can tell I am sold on this lock, in my experience there is no real reason not to CQI all compression lock models going foreward to be Button actuated.

The Button is not in the way and is not a variable in accidental release due to grip placement or a wandering thumb like happens with me on regular PM2's when shifting my hand back to get away from sharp card board edges from slicing or just getting a bit more reach on the knife.

The tension is very good on the lock and the one handed opening and closing is unparalleled in ease and safety.

Lock strength of course is equal to the ahem Mark1 Compression lock.

Real Ambidextrous use is also covered no more left and right handed knives really needed but I suppose for lefties thumb placement might be nicer if a lefty version is made.

Currently considering a PM3 from the same mod company with a Button Actuated Compression lock, and selling my Sage5 S90V, it is a poor cousin compared to the Sage6 in the same steel with Superior lock evolution.

[jegred2]

I prefer the comp lock how it is now, I doubt I’d like my M2 as much if it was set up as a button comp.

[BeggarSo]

I prefer the comp lock how it is now, I doubt I’d like my M2 as much if it was set up as a button comp.

Have you tried a PM2 with a comp button? The one I am getting is a Christmas gift so I can't really talk about it yet, and because it is not by Spyderco it also might not be as good, but I will be sure to post it with pics here when I can.

[Red Leader]

Regarding the Smock, I would actually prefer that they take away the button lock so that they wouldn't have to have that weird choil/cutout, but the button/fidget is the whole reason why so many love the model; I realize I am in the far minority w/ that design.

That is the issue w/ the button - it creates an interference inside the knife handle, thereby necessitating a cutout in the blade for most knives. This works just fine on choil designs, but for those that like a straight blade, it is a mismatch.

Spyderco could get around this by creating a different style of 'button', were the stamped lockbar metal could have an extra tab that would bend around the top (around the edge when the knife is closed) and come to the other side, creating the button. Easier said than done - I'm sure that would cost many thousands of dollars investing in a machine to add in that step.

I am a huge advocate for the button compression lock externally, but not an advocate personally. Meaning, I recognize the inherent popularity of the button compression lock and think it would generate a lot of interest for Spyderco knives amongst people that have not paid attention to their offerings thus far. But I could take it leave it, myself. I'm probably someone that *should* want the button lock, as I am left handed and enjoy knives with the compression lock, yet I enjoy the unobtrusive nature of the standard compression lock and found a way to close a standard compression lock for me that works well and has been come second nature to the point that I no longer think about it.

My son has both a Sage 6 and Smock, so I get to try out the button any time to see if I ever warm up to it. While the Sage (and Sage 6 specifically) isn't really my favorite, it is probably, in a more universal sense, one of the best EDC knives Spyderco has ever made. I prefer the Para 3 over it, and I prefer the PM2 over the Para 3. I continue to likely be in the minority on some of these opinions, but those differences make the world go 'round.

I could see a button operated Para 3, PM2, and Native 5 w/ compression lock being very popular models.

[BeggarSo]

Really good points on the choil models and the Smock. Thanks I really like Spyderco models with generous choils for me that alone is a big selling point.

For me the PM unless it is one of my Cutlery shoppee Wharcliffe models is among my least favorite designs in the hand due to the way my thumb tends to wander into the of lock. Yes I did disengage it once this way and the generous choil was the only thing that saved my fingers as the blade got trapped in materials while pulling back and up on it.

In the military lineup I prefer the Military 2 and the Para3 but tend to gravitate to the Sage5 now 6 more than the para3.

A Sage6 in 15V would get me to buy for sure.

[Coastal]

The button lock might be the only thing that would make me prefer a comp lock to other locks. Someday I'm bound to try one, but I haven't yet.

[Danke]

I like the compression lock and I like the button lock. But I've never bought a knife based on the lock alone.

I don't mind the Smock blade shape. I can cut stuff with it fine. Same as using a kitchen knife. I do get puzzled by folks who think the Smock's blade shape will turn them into a character in an infomercial.

[BeggarSo]

Lol infomercial, hah! Good one!

The blade shape on the Smock is great the choil is not, but Red was right it accomidates the lock.

I would love to see a Smock with a 60/40 Para3 style Choil and increased blade length but keep the shape.

While it is true I have never bought a knife for a lock alone, I have often not purchased knives due to the lock.

Liner locks are not my favorite yet if the knife is something I like... think Gail Bradley2 I can live with it. Never like it as much but tolerate barely.

[vivi]

I'd like to see Spyderco explore more self close bias options for the comp lock rather than a button.

The button is a solution to problems I don't have. It doesn't improve the downsides of the comp lock for me - the lack of a good self closing bias.

I've never unlocked a comp lock by accident, I've never had issues using one lefty, and the cut out has never been an ergonomic concern for me.

They tried it on the szabo folder but the mechanism was pretty complex. I'd like to see if they could simplify that idea some.

[Danke]

Can anyone clarify what a "self close bias" is for this specific case? I find the regular compression lock super easy to one hand open and close.

[Synov]

Can anyone clarify what a "self close bias" is for this specific case? I find the regular compression lock super easy to one hand open and close.

It means there is a spring force in the closed position that resists the knife opening and must be overcome to open it. Even though liner, frame and compression locks technically have this in the detent ball mechanism, some consider the spring force to not be significant. Compare these to a back lock or slip joint that has a spring directly pushing against the rotation of the blade.

My favorite lock right now is the Demko Shark Lock, which does have a strong closing bias but is really easy to open and close. I hope Spyderco uses it at some point.

[Mushroom]

Can anyone clarify what a "self close bias" is for this specific case? I find the regular compression lock super easy to one hand open and close.

"Self-close bias" refers to how the lock mechanism itself functions to keep the blade closed.

A folding knife has a "self-close bias" when the mechanical action of the lock applies a closing force to the tang of the blade as it begins to open.

Back locks have a "self-close bias" due to the spring pressure exerted on the blade tang by the lockbar. When the blade is slightly opened, the pressure from the lockbar forces the blade closed. There is a point at which this force is overcome but that point occurs much later in the opening arc compared to a ball-detent retention system.

In contrast to that, the small ball detent used on liner locks and compression locks offers very little resistance against the blade opening. Once the tension from the small ball detent is overcome, there is no force acting on the blade to keep it closed. This allows the blade to stay partially open, introducing an unexpected risk of injury from the open blade. Therefore, these locks do not have a "self-close bias" anywhere near the same extent as a backlock or closed ball bearing lock does.

[benben]

I think the compression lock is a brilliant design, but it takes 4th place for me right behind Golden’s Back Lock, some of the titanium Frame Locks (RIL) I’ve bought lately, and the Manix CBBL.

Fourth isn’t so bad behind those!

[Danke]

So people want the compression lock to work and feel more like a back lock (a lock that already exists). Hard pass.

[Mushroom]

No, thats not what was expressed. He said he would like to see Spyderco explore more self close bias options for the compression lock. There are likely many ways to achieve that and they wouldn't all require them make the compression lock work and feel more like a back lock.

I think the idea has merit. I have some thoughts for potential solutions but I'm sure Spyderco is already two steps ahead.

As for my own lock preferences, I'm lucky because like them all. I've never let a lock influence my decision to purchase. "All good, just different."

[Michal O]

I wish more companies would try Super Lock by Snecx, not protected by patent, because Snecx wanted more companies to use it. It works great in WE Vision R, I would love it on some Spyderco.

[BeggarSo]

I can understand wanting that Bias I have accidently dropped compression lock knives an had them open on me kind of scary when the bounce on tile towards you and they are stupid sharp.

So I can see Vivi's point and if I were running or doing something very active I can see the hazard there as I have had other things in the pocket interact and open so yeah guess I agree.

[Danke]

So again, what's a self close bias? Hard to open or something else?

Maybe I want it too but it's not being clearly defined.

[Mushroom]

Oh, well the phrase is self explanatory. Doesn't require much more than that to understand it.

Good luck.

[yablanowitz]

So again, what's a self close bias? Hard to open or something else?

Maybe I want it too but it's not being clearly defined.

If the blade is partly open, it will try to close itself. On backlocks, bolt action and ball bearing locks, the mechanism provides a bias toward closing, so if something pulls the blade open a little, it will close itself. On detent based systems such as RIL, Walker linerlocks and compression locks, once the detent ball is out of its hole in the tang, there is no bias toward closing. The blade stays partly open, or opens even farther unless an external force closes it.