Decline of serrations

[Wartstein]

Right, are we carving figurines or building a shelter to keep dry in? The biggest reason I'd rather have plain edge in this scenario is because improvised sharpening is going to be easier, but I'm going to figure out how to fracture a rock and get a sharp edge that'll get in there and sharpen the serrations enough to get by. This whole topic is a huge rabbit hole anyway, if anyone has watched the Alone TV show you'd see that a knife is oftentimes no more than the blade on a multitool, and the whole concept of Bushcraft with a knife is really more like a hobby than a real world skill, otherwise you'd see the winners doing it with just a knife.

Exactly.

If you give me the choice between an Endela PE and an Endela SE, both out of the box:
- For carving figurines: PE
- For building a basic shelter for just one night with no tool but a small folder: SE, no doubt.
And I am convinced that many, if not most, would feel the same if they could try completely unbiased.

Also agree on improvised sharpening - though rather in a really "post apocalyptic" scenario where one for whatever reason has no access to proper sharpening gear for a long time.

If one is out in the woods for let´s say just one overnighter, things look completely different imo and SE beats PE again, also when it comes to "sharpening" (again, talking about rather small folders):
Why? Cause SE will not need to be sharpened in the first place, since it stays sharp longer than PE in the same knife and, even when technically rather dull, will still do an acceptable "separating job", much better than rather dull PE can do.
Everyone can try this with a good spyderegde: Let it get dull to a point where it does not even slice printer paper anymore: It will still cut off that branch or be able to make a notch in wood or whatever.

[Wartstein]

.... a spyderedge is able to outcut a plain edge in almost any format but not the other way around.....

I think so too.

The areas where I´d still prefer PE over SE are actually mostly not real cutting tasks: Chopping, batoning, scraping... here PE works better for me. In real cutting: Almost always SE, if we´re talking folders.

[Wartstein]

Neatness in cutting is also really dependant on what you're cutting and how. I've been wrapping Christmas gifts for 2 weeks now and I cut all the paper with my SE Bodacious and I get cleaner cuts than you'd get with scissors. My plain edge will also cut just fine but they require that I hold the blade at more of an angle than I do with serrations. It's not the end of the world but the point is that serrations don't just mangle the heck out of the paper.

I assume that you mean in the great way that sharp SE can cut by "hooking" the paper in just one, single scallop over the whole course of the cut, right?

[Bill1170]

I do enjoy having 16 mm or so of PE at the tip of my SE folders. Earlier this week I used the tip of my SE Endela to deftly shave off a printed label 1/2” wide off a painted door without harming the paint. The rest of the blade is wiggly, but a razor.

[Wartstein]

I do enjoy having 16 mm or so of PE at the tip of my SE folders. Earlier this week I used the tip of my SE Endela to deftly shave off a printed label 1/2” wide off a painted door without harming the paint. The rest of the blade is wiggly, but a razor.

True, this is rather scraping than cutting and here PE definitely works just better than SE.

[Evil D]

.... a spyderedge is able to outcut a plain edge in almost any format but not the other way around.....

I think so too.

The areas where I´d still prefer PE over SE are actually mostly not real cutting tasks: Chopping, batoning, scraping... here PE works better for me. In real cutting: Almost always SE, if we´re talking folders.

Exactly. And I don't put any effort into keeping the paper locked into a particular serration or anything like that, because the paper naturally gets cut by whichever scallop is making contact with the paper first. I've said it many times, serrations are essentially a row of small plain edge hawkbill blades and in many situations they cut the same.

[Gears_QQQ]

It was interesting to read this thread! I was lucky to get Merlin. And now I'm waiting for the package solt on steel h1 - a beautiful, yellow, bright handle for a good mood in winter.

[elena86]

.... a spyderedge is able to outcut a plain edge in almost any format but not the other way around.....

I think so too.

The areas where I´d still prefer PE over SE are actually mostly not real cutting tasks: Chopping, batoning, scraping... here PE works better for me. In real cutting: Almost always SE, if we´re talking folders.

Exactly. And I don't put any effort into keeping the paper locked into a particular serration or anything like that, because the paper naturally gets cut by whichever scallop is making contact with the paper first. I've said it many times, serrations are essentially a row of small plain edge hawkbill blades and in many situations they cut the same.

Perfect description

[Wartstein]

...
Exactly. And I don't put any effort into keeping the paper locked into a particular serration or anything like that, because the paper naturally gets cut by whichever scallop is making contact with the paper first. I've said it many times, serrations are essentially a row of small plain edge hawkbill blades and in many situations they cut the same.

That´s a good explanation, especially for folks who might never have really tried a good and sharp serrated Spyderco and think the teeth are prone to "mess up" paper in a cut compared to PE

Along the lines of what you say:
To me it is just the other way round. Out of the box an SE Spydie is a great tool for cutting wrapping paper, for the reason you point out!

/ Sometimes I am afraid some folks might think that I/we just sing the praise of SE mindlessly: But as said: Everyone can try for themselves and then make a judgement: Get an Endela both in PE and SE or a Chap both in PE and SE and have a go at various tasks with both knives right out of the box.
(And again: If one is willing / able to improve plain edges like Vivi does, this might or will change a lot indeed!
But I still believe what @Michael Janich says in his great article about SE: Basically that a plain (v-) edge, sharpened to the same acute inclusive angle as a serrated (chisel grind) edge will not be as durable and more fragile (see here https://mailchi.mp/spyderco/spyderco-by ... cycb2mvhza, second article int the "byte")

[navin johnson]

The decline of serrations is no doubt fueled by better steels and better sharpening equipment.

Every time I read one of the many threads with the same 5-6 (seems far less comment/participate in SE threads) people commenting about serrations I try once again to use one for dailys. After a day or so I go back to PE. Serrations are great for specific tasks but only good for all things if very sharp and even then they can be challenging due to a chisel grind.

PE with less than optimal sharpness can still make reasonably clean cuts, especially a steel with a good working edge.

Just my observations after having both since early 90's

[da1cyclist]

As a technician, serrated knives have been valuable tools for me (i have gone through somewhere between 10 and 20 Enduras, amongst other knives, while working for a mining company)

What are you using your knife for that you’ve worn out that many? I’m legitimately curious

[BeggarSo]

I wondered the same thing. Changing / cutting some kind of belts loaded with some kind of abrasive material was my guess. IDK.

[da1cyclist]

I wondered the same thing. Changing / cutting some kind of belts loaded with some kind of abrasive material was my guess. IDK.

Get this man some Rex 121 asap

[Wartstein]

...
Hi buddy!
For outdoors work I’m normally hacking at green plants between thumb and thigh thickness, shredding them into small bits for chop and drop green mulching to nourish the soil biome and in turn support the growth of everything else around the sacrificial plants. For bushcraft I am usually trying to do something carefully and deliberately, rather than thrashing the snot out of something.

Essentially -
being indiscriminate = prefer SE
being careful/neat = prefer PE

I can get by with a SE fixed blade 99% of the time, but when I want neatness (or to cut fabric/carboard) I prefer PE. Plus I like knives, and this gives me the thinly veiled excuse to buy both sorts in abundance

Thanks my friend!

I guess I am pretty much with you!

Except:
Not that I´d have your experience (by far not!), but when "hacking at green plants of thigh thickness" I´d probably take PE over SE...?
On the flipside: For breaking down cardboard (sharp!) SE all day...

Anyway: I think the point here is that (Spydercos) SE really is at least not that "inferior" or "only for a certain few use cases" as it is sometimes seen in the "knife world"

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Wartstein my friend, the upcoming Button Up has great serrations on the Combo Edge version.

[JoviAl]

...
Hi buddy!
For outdoors work I’m normally hacking at green plants between thumb and thigh thickness, shredding them into small bits for chop and drop green mulching to nourish the soil biome and in turn support the growth of everything else around the sacrificial plants. For bushcraft I am usually trying to do something carefully and deliberately, rather than thrashing the snot out of something.

Essentially -
being indiscriminate = prefer SE
being careful/neat = prefer PE

I can get by with a SE fixed blade 99% of the time, but when I want neatness (or to cut fabric/carboard) I prefer PE. Plus I like knives, and this gives me the thinly veiled excuse to buy both sorts in abundance

Thanks my friend!

I guess I am pretty much with you!

Except:
Not that I´d have your experience (by far not!), but when "hacking at green plants of thigh thickness" I´d probably take PE over SE...?
On the flipside: For breaking down cardboard (sharp!) SE all day...

Anyway: I think the point here is that (Spydercos) SE really is at least not that "inferior" or "only for a certain few use cases" as it is sometimes seen in the "knife world"

Do you have a Jumpmaster 2? I know I have some quite particular use cases for the knives I use, but the JM2 is for me the perfect knife for almost any task - feather sticks, food prep, brush hacking, whatever, it just gets it done. Plus it just laughs at inclement weather, dirt, ice, snow, and anything else I’ve thrown at it.

[BeggarSo]

I have Spyderco's in serrations, combos etc. And the only thing I can think of they cant do better might be skinning critters.

I am constantly amazed how the Spydie edge can make a small knife like a Para3 and Delica into a powerful slicing machine.

[Michal O]

Serrated knife always cuts, plain edge must be very sharp, edge must be finished to not compromise properties of particular steel - some like mirror edge, other don't. I had situations that shaving sharp knife struggled to cut zip tie, blade slipped on it and hit the concrete beneath. SE Police 4 is cutting zip ties, thick rubber, plastic tubes, hoses etc. like it's nothing.

[BeggarSo]

Lol yeah I used to think years ago a Polished blade was the cats pajamas the ultimate expression of sharp. Spent allot on a Wicked Edge sharpener and was getting mirror blades.

To my dismay they skated off of most materials I needed to cut. Yeah education there.

[Coastal]

The most interesting aspect of this thread, to me at least, is the diametrically opposed positions of some of the forumites whose opinions I respect the most. These are people whose uses overlap substantially, who use their knives a lot, and have years of experience informing their opinions.

Personal experience/preference: serrations for yard work, farming and ranching, certain fishing/kayaking tasks, cutting bread. Plain edge for everything else.

And yes, Spyderco's serrations are easily the best.