H1Spyderco Machete?

[Naperville]

Let's get this tool into the hands of every day folks, landscapers and the US military involved in jungle training/combat.

Haha, what? Sal obviously trying to keep the costs down but a mule costs $75. This will be a lot more steel. I also suspect low volume production is going to have cost challenges that large scale machete manufacturers don’t face (I’m guessing they stamp their blades to get a blade blank). Can the desired steel be acquired in a thin enough stock to avoid waste and unnecessary machining?

Landscapers buy $10 machetes.

Maybe the majority of professional landscapers buy $10 machetes because all there are - are $10 machetes. $150+ would not stop me from buying one or more. Depends on how awesome the product is.

That does not explain @JoviAl purchase of the tools he has. Weekend landscapers (homeowners) might buy something more expensive. Weekend warriors (preppers and wannabe survivalists) might buy something more expensive. The US military might buy something more expensive. Steel and machete aficionados might buy something more expensive too.

If they don't sell out in an hour and stick around for a while I don't see that as a bad thing as long as the product is right.

[Fireman]

My guess is that if there is 2,000 pieces, half will go to collectors and flippers and the rest to average Joes. If a mule version is $200-$250 and you can print scales, make scales or aftermarket scales that is 10,000 X better than not having it made at all. If Spyderco makes scales (50% of units available as not to be left with extras) and if the mule screw hardware could be used that would probably be the sweet spot for keeping costs low, but I am just the peanut gallery. I know I would buy 2 if allowed. I would probably get one black ceracoated and have a Kydex sheath made. If I had it today and if it was LC200N or Magnacut, I would have carved the turkey with it.

[JoviAl]

Let's get this tool into the hands of every day folks, landscapers and the US military involved in jungle training/combat.

Haha, what? Sal obviously trying to keep the costs down but a mule costs $75. This will be a lot more steel. I also suspect low volume production is going to have cost challenges that large scale machete manufacturers don’t face (I’m guessing they stamp their blades to get a blade blank). Can the desired steel be acquired in a thin enough stock to avoid waste and unnecessary machining?

Landscapers buy $10 machetes.

Firstly, happy Thanksgiving to anyone here who celebrates it - I hope you are having a wonderful day.

With regards to landscapers buying $10 machetes in my experience there is definitely some truth to that, but (here comes the caveat) those companies tend to be the ones with a hard focus on human arbitrage, maximising margins and relatively high staff churn/using seasonal workers. I’ve only ever worked in one of those once and the tools we were provided with were definitely aimed at short term use and abuse. All of the other companies I’ve worked in/for have gone to the opposite end of the spectrum though - you are issued high quality equipment and it is your responsibility to maintain it and make it last. You break it through user negligence (not genuine accident) and you have two choices - either do without until the next calendar year or replace it out of your own pocket. In those companies where we were all skilled labour and had a vested fiscal interest in both doing the job quickly and well (completion bonuses are a big thing), we definitely cherished our tools. These machetes would (in my mind at least) essentially appeal to the same market demographic as ported chainsaws - sole traders/owner operators/small highly skilled teams/individual contractors that either buy their own gear or the company provides top spec kit for maximum productivity with no excuses.

So do most landscapers/arborists/farmers buy cheap disposable machetes? Yeah, absolutely. Is there a market for a high end option though? I would put my money where my mouth is and say yes, but not in the 100,000 per annum units vicinity, more like the 1000’s of units. The advantage of H1/2, LC200N and Magnacut is it certainly won’t spoil if it sits on a shelf for a year or two in a retailer’s warehouse (or a contractor’s lock up).

Incidentally I was just speaking to a good friend of mine who is a Permaculture and Syntropic Regenerative Agriculture consultant currently working on an absolutely vast palm plantation project in Indonesia. He was very excited about the idea of a high quality tool he could furnish himself and his team with that would last more than a couple of months in the tropical wet, sweat and heat and not need to be resharpened after every 50-100 cuts. His staff are literally chop and dropping all day, dawn to dusk and spend more than half their time doing edge maintenance, so the productivity aspect alone has him excited.

*edited to correct typos

[zhyla]

Maybe the majority of professional landscapers buy $10 machetes because all there are - are $10 machetes. $150+ would not stop me from buying one or more. Depends on how awesome the product is.

I think we all have different references for what machete usage is like and thus different perspectives on pricing. In my experience the enemy of machete edges is rocks from clearing low brush. In that context machetes cost $10 because they need to be disposable, not the other way around.

That does not explain @JoviAl purchase of the tools he has. Weekend landscapers (homeowners) might buy something more expensive. Weekend warriors (preppers and wannabe survivalists) might buy something more expensive. The US military might buy something more expensive. Steel and machete aficionados might buy something more expensive too.

Absolutely! The Spyderco catalog is full of expensive items that exist as luxury purchases for most people. That’s why I tend to tilt my head at this whole thread. I have a stack of machetes. Of course I’m entertained with the idea of Spyderco making a machete. And I’m always curious what they can improve. I’m not saying Sal can’t sell machetes, I’m just balking at the idea that anyone but knife enthusiasts will buy them unless somehow Spyderco achieves Gerber level volume/pricing.

I really doubt our military cares about machetes enough to bite but I suppose if they ever have a next gen machete program Spyderco could submit something. That seems more La La land than the rest of this.

[Fireman]

It seems a lot of military and first responders buy tools they like/need out of pocket. If my @$$ was being shipped to a humid thick vegetation area I’d be damned sure I would have one of these and not rely on Uncle Sam for my Machete. I know there was some testing in recent history for Machetes for the military and a certain company who makes high end knives submitted his design and I have one of those. They were selling for $350 with a leather sheath and G10 scales but it was not stainless, S7 actually and had a black coating. Strangely it was hollow ground. It’s a bit heavy but tough as nails being S7. That’s probably my most expensive true machete. The Bravo 3 is more of a short sword and I have one custom that is equal parts kitchen knife and machete in stainless steel. I will probably make at least one more custom but in LC200N that will be double sided.

[Jeb]

Zhyla,

I think you are wrong about all that man... I have bought more than my share of those cheap machetes and I am sick of those.

Even hitting at brush on the ground and crashing them into the rocks, if we can ever buy the more expensive one, when you hit the rocks or whatever, that better one like the one we are discussing here, will fair more favorable when we do hit rocks and steel posts and the likes.

I find myself hitting at brush around T-stakes on my fences and yes your machete is going to reflect that impact.

I'm just sick and tired of literally folding the blade around hitting things like Cedar posts and having to stop everything to go back to the shop to hammer the bend out of my machetes.

My bet is Sal and company will make us a truly great machete for a reasonable price that we all will want and that will take the wear and tear.

Just say'n lol!!!

Now, I got to get ready for Texas Tech Red Raiders big GameDay tomorrow ...

[TimButterfield]

I really doubt our military cares about machetes enough to bite but I suppose if they ever have a next gen machete program Spyderco could submit something. That seems more La La land than the rest of this.

How might a spec differ for that application? Is the existing spec close enough that a slight tweak or two could fit an additional usage without adversely affecting the currently proposed usage? Giving the new model a bit more traction would seem a good thing long term.

[Naperville]

Maybe the majority of professional landscapers buy $10 machetes because all there are - are $10 machetes. $150+ would not stop me from buying one or more. Depends on how awesome the product is.

I think we all have different references for what machete usage is like and thus different perspectives on pricing. In my experience the enemy of machete edges is rocks from clearing low brush. In that context machetes cost $10 because they need to be disposable, not the other way around.

That does not explain @JoviAl purchase of the tools he has. Weekend landscapers (homeowners) might buy something more expensive. Weekend warriors (preppers and wannabe survivalists) might buy something more expensive. The US military might buy something more expensive. Steel and machete aficionados might buy something more expensive too.

Absolutely! The Spyderco catalog is full of expensive items that exist as luxury purchases for most people. That’s why I tend to tilt my head at this whole thread. I have a stack of machetes. Of course I’m entertained with the idea of Spyderco making a machete. And I’m always curious what they can improve. I’m not saying Sal can’t sell machetes, I’m just balking at the idea that anyone but knife enthusiasts will buy them unless somehow Spyderco achieves Gerber level volume/pricing.

I really doubt our military cares about machetes enough to bite but I suppose if they ever have a next gen machete program Spyderco could submit something. That seems more La La land than the rest of this.

There was a thread on Blade Forums within the last month in regard to a US Military order for knives. I did not calculate out the cost but it was around 5 times the cost for a decent knife.

[zhyla]

Even hitting at brush on the ground and crashing them into the rocks, if we can ever buy the more expensive one, when you hit the rocks or whatever, that better one like the one we are discussing here, will fair more favorable when we do hit rocks and steel posts and the likes.

Lol. No. Rock beats steel every time. There’s a reason we sharpen steel with rocks.

I find myself hitting at brush around T-stakes on my fences and yes your machete is going to reflect that impact.

I'm just sick and tired of literally folding the blade around hitting things like Cedar posts and having to stop everything to go back to the shop to hammer the bend out of my machetes.

Yea, that’s some pretty hard use and the reason you’d rather use a $10 machete instead of a $100 machete. It’s true that steel chemistry isn’t entirely zero sum, but it’s roughly true that the hypothetical Spyderco machete will either have equally soft steel and suffer similar damage or it will have harder steel and be prone to more catastrophic damage. It’s the class roll vs chip tradeoff. Machetes are typically run quite soft to avoid chipping.

[vivi]

Crouch low and swing side to side instead of swinging into rocks, or slash at an angle like / but aimed above ground level.

Machetes hold an edge much longer that way

[JoviAl]

We use string brush cutters for this so we don’t damage our other tools. If the brush cutter is out of action for any reason (they go through strings at a prodigious rate for example), we cut grass and brush around metal poles or fence posts by gathering a clump in one gloved hand and draw cutting it with a small or medium sized knife. Minimises tool damage wherever possible.

[Jeb]

Yes, but your more like trimming and pruning fu fu places, I'm just as likely to have stuff I don't even like to grab with gloves on lol. We have thorny stuff out here that a glove is not going to phase.

T-stakes and string trimmers that doesn't work for me either, I got two 30cc RedMax string trimmers I use .105 string on and I just eat all the string off the trimmer around them. If I only have a few to do, sure, but I seldom have a few.

What I try to do every year is keep the vegetation all killed around all my posts, whatever they are made from. I fail miserably at it ever year lol.

Besides all of the if, ands and what for, Jeb just wants Big Sal to make a killer machete so I can buy a couple to, if do anything; just show off lol. Besides, why not? Just think about it?

I'm thinking a Spyderco machete and if it's half, just half as impressive as my Ed Schempp Rock Spyderco, that machete will be freaking awesome guys.

I am done with those 100 dollar cheap suckers that are not worth the 10 bucks you mentioned. Then when I do get one and screw it up, that's OK too. I sand it out and re-hone and go at it again. That don't fix it, I will just buy another one.

I am just sick of the same ol'e cheap machetes that are never as good as however much money I spend on them. I want to see what Big Sal can make, heck my money is it will be a winner.

[Jimandchris2]

This outstanding.
Spyderco could/might theoretically release an outstanding 17–18" machete, but H2 steel fails most practical criteria for real chopping tools.Sal taught us.
Required criteria: (1) edge retention sufficient for 300–500 hard cuts in green wood without major touch-up; (2) resistance to edge rolling/denting on lateral impacts; (3) reasonable production cost for thick stock; (4) competitive performance against $50–90 traditional machetes. H2 meets only corrosion resistance and ease of sharpening; it rolls easily at ~57-58 HRC, loses sharpness very quickly under heavy use, and is expensive to grind in large sections. Better steel options that satisfy all criteria: LC200N (near-rustproof, far superior edge stability), MagnaCut (balanced super-steel), or CruWear/3V (maximum toughness with minor care). Geometry criteria: 0.220–0.250" spine, strong distal taper, high flat/convex grind, 550–650 g total weight, and Spyderco’s trademark forward choil + round hole for control.

Handle and carry must meet Spyderco’s ergonomic standards: textured G10 or Micarta scales, nested liners or skeletonized tang, slightly dropped angle like the Temperance series, and a deep forward choil. Sheath criteria: secure Kydex or lined ballistic nylon with Tek-Lok/MOLLE/baldric compatibility. Realistic price criteria for dealer and consumer acceptance: $220–280 (AEB-L/LC200N), $320–400 (MagnaCut/3V). Market criteria: the overlap of Spyderco collectors and actual jungle/trail-clearing users is small, so it would only work as a 2,000–3,000-piece Sprint Run or REK collaboration; regular catalog production would likely lose money against cheap, high-performance Latin and Southeast-Asian machetes. Bottom line: LC200N or MagnaCut at 17–18" would be spectacular and sell out instantly to enthusiasts, but H2 simply doesn’t meet the performance criteria for a serious chopping machete. I worked on this too. Thanks Mushroom!

[zhyla]

Geometry criteria: 0.220–0.250" spine

That is not a machete. Seems like a lot of people here want a medium/heavy chopper. Maybe start a thread on that?

and Spyderco’s trademark forward choil + round hole for control.

Choils, finger grooves, and in general any geometry between your fingers is asking for pain when swinging a blade. I can’t even imagine what you want a hole for apart from a trademark.

[Jeb]

Jimandchris2,

I'm good with a black coated 3V for 400 bucks. I want this bad boy in a PE... the SE blade machete just flat out right doesn't cut clean through each chop swing nearly as easy as the PE.

I would really like the grip on this machete like the Ed Schempp Rock too, the grip on my Schempp Rock is freaking awesome. You can swing it and not worry about loosing the grip on it. But after all, it's a Spyderco...

I'll take two of those right now @ 400 each...

[JoviAl]

Yes, but your more like trimming and pruning fu fu places, I'm just as likely to have stuff I don't even like to grab with gloves on lol. We have thorny stuff out here that a glove is not going to phase.

T-stakes and string trimmers that doesn't work for me either, I got two 30cc RedMax string trimmers I use .105 string on and I just eat all the string off the trimmer around them. If I only have a few to do, sure, but I seldom have a few.

What I try to do every year is keep the vegetation all killed around all my posts, whatever they are made from. I fail miserably at it ever year lol.

Besides all of the if, ands and what for, Jeb just wants Big Sal to make a killer machete so I can buy a couple to, if do anything; just show off lol. Besides, why not? Just think about it?

I'm thinking a Spyderco machete and if it's half, just half as impressive as my Ed Schempp Rock Spyderco, that machete will be freaking awesome guys.

I am done with those 100 dollar cheap suckers that are not worth the 10 bucks you mentioned. Then when I do get one and screw it up, that's OK too. I sand it out and re-hone and go at it again. That don't fix it, I will just buy another one.

I am just sick of the same ol'e cheap machetes that are never as good as however much money I spend on them. I want to see what Big Sal can make, heck my money is it will be a winner.

I’m not sure what ‘fu fu’ means (got some pretty varied google results ), but we’re not working on domestic properties - the landscaping we do is growing tropical wildlife reserves and rewilding existing green spaces using Syntropic Regenerative Agricultural tenets. We get some pretty epic thorns over here too, but they’re not normally low down so less of an issue than what it sounds like you’re having to contend with. We wear needle and cut resistant cut gloves on our off hands when using machetes, as much for protection from the ever present risk of pit vipers, Cobras, jungle ants and giant centipedes who all love to chill in the long brush as for the swung blades. My personal favourites are these as they have great grip on the interior and aren’t too sweaty or spendy (we get through a lot of them over the course of a year, and unfortunately they don’t sell left hand gloves individually so there’s a lot of leftover right hand gloves ) -

I agree, string trimmers are a chore to use around fixed objects, especially poles. We get around this (no pun intended) on young saplings by resting the edge of the string guard on the pole and walking a circle while keeping it pressed up against. Stops the string hitting anything but brush, although we don’t do fence poles with fence attached as we don’t have any fences on our sites, so this is probably not practical for you. Would a controlled burn work? We’ve had good results around building edges and man made paths using a gas burner setup and basically blanching the brush just to the point where it wilts rather than sets on fire. Anyways, I’m not trying to tell you how to suck eggs buddy or virtue signal, just trying to help a brother. I’ll happily mail you a set of these gloves if you want to try a pair, just PM me They were a game changer for us and are really nice quality.

Back to the subject of a Spyderco machete - I’m game for anything that doesn’t rust and/or suck at cutting things for protracted periods. I have Cruwear and 3V and it doesn’t love the high humidity of the tropics (in fairness very few steels handle the environment here, even VG10, S30V, etc all rust in the pocket over a day), but Magnacut or LC200N would be fantastic

Also, YES to a Rock Salt sprint

[Jeb]

Oh, cool sounding glove... and thanks for the gracious offer to send my sorry hide a pair, but I can check into them.

Control burns around here are good when we're not in a burn ban lol. That is my favorite way to deal with the hairy stuff too. But so much of the year anymore around here, it's to dry to do any burning.

If Jeb would just get the vegetation killed off before it gets big and nasty looking and keep it that way I wouldn't find myself in this mess.

Fu fu, is in regards to things like golf courses and country clubs that are all dressed up to the 9's, I had figured you worked in and around places like like sir, not at all from what you mentioned to work on.

The other great option I have used in the past, are goats. Man, goats clean things up awesome. The other added benefit to having goats, they cook out on the grill great, they are delicious and are way more healthy to eat.

The problem I have with goats, is my wife likes them as pets, heck she likes them if they were her children lol, so much for me getting to cook one at a tailgate party lol...

Getting back to the machete issues, I do understand the sweaty hot body just flat out ruining good blade steel. I agree with you completely on that issue.

I think we might could have the best of both worlds with good steel and corrosion resistance if Big Sal could figure out the correct heat treat process while incorporating the black DLC coating all together.

With the heat that is required to process the DLC coating, it will affect the temper on good steel. One of my single most favorite steels is K390, I got like 10 Police4 knives as the size and backlock just flat works in my paws.

Well I have several in K390 and in the summer around here I just can't carry it. It just flat out rusts up while in my hot sweaty pocket. The side against my leg is twice as bad as the otherside of the knife too lol.

I had planned for a while to take a few of the K390 Police4 knives and send them to this guy that does a really nice high polished finish in DLC coating.

As I got to visiting with the guy, the temp they have to cook these blades, will definitely affect the temper of them and I am sure it won't be in a positive way lol.

K390 steel DLC coated I think would be awesome, less expensive than the newer alloys and it hones great and cuts even better.

At any rate Big Sal is who I can get behind to figure out what steel for this machete project. Me for one like the whole idea of whatever steel he makes these from, to black DLC coat it, what I would willingly pay extra for too.

The high polished DLC coating will be easier to clean the sap, blood, sweat and tears off of jimo...

[Jimandchris2]

Jimandchris2,

I'm good with a black coated 3V for 400 bucks. I want this bad boy in a PE... the SE blade machete just flat out right doesn't cut clean through each chop swing nearly as easy as the PE.

I would really like the grip on this machete like the Ed Schempp Rock too, the grip on my Schempp Rock is freaking awesome. You can swing it and not worry about loosing the grip on it. But after all, it's a Spyderco...

I'll take two of those right now @ 400 each...

Thanks for supporting the conversation and knowledge

[sal]

I question whether a coating of any kind could survive undamaged when hacking plants several thousand times a day?

Will those of you with experience with coated machete's please chime in?

sal

[vivi]

I question whether a coating of any kind could survive undamaged when hacking plants several thousand times a day?

Will those of you with experience with coated machete's please chime in?

sal

Most coated machetes use a much cheaper, less durable coating than DLC.

That said hacking away at vegetation doesn't damage coating much. See the Ontario Bushcraft machete I posted earlier:



(3rd from the top)

The coating on that machete is in good shape. The marks on the blade is simply residue from work, it'd wipe off. The only wear is near the edge and was likely caused by reprofiling it on my belt sander.

The top machete, a south african made cold steel, uses some sort of thin baked on coating. The Ontario feels more like an ESEE style coating while the SA CS machete feels thinner and slicker, closer to the coating on Pacific Salts. I'm not sure what process they use but it's cost effective and holds up well. That top machete has been used hard for years.

Batoning is the only thing that seems to wear on my coated machetes and fixed blades an appreciable amount.

Digging in soil would too but I use shovels for those jobs, not machetes or fixed blades.

Based on my experience its less a question of the coatings durability, especially if DLC is in the question, and more a matter of is using a coated tool steel going to offer lower cost / greater toughness than using H1, AEBL, LC200N or Magnacut?