Sal, anything you´d like to share on the Golden made BACKLOCK Polestar? (Another "handle forward" knife?)

[Red Leader]

Between making it overseas and making it in Golden but w/ a huge delay, my preference would be Golden of course. Not interested in new lock version still made in China.

Also, between the 3 locks, I think I would also vote for the backlock. Or...if production is pushed back a couple years, maybe it could be a good vehicle for the Triad lock once the patent expires, if there are good vibes w/ CS and Demko around it. I get the invisible lines that may exist around this in the industry.

[Wartstein]

But they've never made a compression lock in China.....

But don´t they at least kind of once more with the button lock in the "revealed" Button up? (I could be wrong or not up to date since I took a "Spyderco - break" for a while)

Anyway, I personally still hope for a backlock, since my whole initial excitement and reason for starting this thread back in 22 exactly was about seeing the backlock handle forward concept extend to more models than "just" the Jumpers.

That said: Generally I´d be curious what Spyderco would come up with if they made their own version of a true crossbar lock. I have only (and limited to just one model!) experience with the BM axxis lock and was honestly not a fan (weak closing bias - opened in my pocket; Omega springs did break on me). But I can see that there are already other, apparently improved versions by competitors out there...?

[riclaw]

@Wartstein , good to see you back.

I'd go backlock. The market is flooded with crossbar style locks. And they use too many fasteners, IMO.

[cabfrank]

Welcome back, @Wartstein!

[pinchyfisher]

Welcome back @Wartstein !

[Mushroom]

The Button-Up is a button lock, not a compression lock.

[ZenL]

Specifically, the Button Up is a conventional "plunge" style button lock, while the Smock is a "button release compression lock". Though the plunge lock is most of the button lock market, there are also Chinese makers who have already adopted the Smock style "BRCL" this year. Vosteed comes to mind, starting with their RSKAOS model a few years ago. They've gotten quite good at it. I wonder if Spyderco has ever considered asking them to OEM some stuff, I've been pretty satisfied with their quality to price ratio.

[Wartstein]

@riclaw @cabfrank @pinchyfisher thanks guys, it was good to take a break, but now it´s even better to be back!
@Mushroom @ZenL thanks for the clarification!

[8th_Note]

A comp lock Golden Polestar sounds like a really cool combo to me. Not sure what the difference between handle forward and not would be though?

The term "handle forward" is often misapplied to any knife where the edge extends to the handle. The term "Handle forward" is really only in reference to backlocks. What it means is, instead of the edge going all the way to the handle, the handle is brought forward to the edge.

The edge on a compression lock blade can extend all the way to the handle because the lock does not have the same design constraints of a backlock. Therefore the handle does not need to be brought forward for the edge to extend to the handle.

Handle forward backlocks still require some kind of blade kick, which often gets in the way of the edge extending all the way to the handle. To make up for the space taken up by the kick, the handle is extended forward. Hence the name, handle forward.

If they're the same overall size, a handle forward backlock Polestar would have a slightly longer handle than a compression lock Polestar. The compression lock Polestar would sacrifice a small amount of handle length for a slightly longer edge length.

thank you for the concise explanation. very informative and makes sense

[cjk]

I think the Chinese crossbar lock Spydercos in the proto cabinet would be super popular. I thought they were rad. They're not my favorite kind of thing, but there are lots of folks that love them and they are fun to play with. I'd expect them to be a hit.

I assume that Spyderco works with a number of different factories in China. Maybe all of the proposed crossbar models could be made by an entirely different maker than the current Chinese product line so they end up being a capacity expansion of sorts.

Alleima steels like 14c28n seem to be very available in Chinese makers' products. I perceive those as preferable to the number/letter Chinese steels even if they really aren't.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

The Button-Up is a button lock, not a compression lock.

I must stay the course. The Button Up is new and unique and even though some onliners are saying bad stuff about Spyderco using 8Cr13MoV on it, I do not go by their opinions. I go by Spyder Facts. :)

[8th_Note]

I think the Chinese crossbar lock Spydercos in the proto cabinet would be super popular. I thought they were rad. They're not my favorite kind of thing, but there are lots of folks that love them and they are fun to play with. I'd expect them to be a hit.

I assume that Spyderco works with a number of different factories in China. Maybe all of the proposed crossbar models could be made by an entirely different maker than the current Chinese product line so they end up being a capacity expansion of sorts.

Alleima steels like 14c28n seem to be very available in Chinese makers' products. I perceive those as preferable to the number/letter Chinese steels even if they really aren't.

14c28n is the go-to steel for Chinese budget brands these days. It's the "new D2". Makers like Vosteed and Kansept do amazing jobs with the heat treat on it. China is really producing world class knives with top tier steel and heat treats. They're definitely on par with any makers in the US.

[zhyla]

even though some onliners are saying bad stuff … I do not go by their opinions.

Ironic quote of the year.

[carrot]

I love the lockback, but I think the IKC outside of here seem to feel it's dated. It is still my favorite and most preferred lock, although the comp lock has been gaining ground on it with every revision. The Mil 2 and Sage 6 are incredible.

I think that the Leafjumper and Rockjumper suffer from being difficult to differentiate from the Delica and Stretch series on paper and online, despite them being very different in person, especially with the D4/E4 having been made in just about every blade shape and steel variant.

I would worry that the Polestar/Alcyone reboot would be similarly under-appreciated in lockback. Additionally, lockbacks without Chaparral-style stop pins suffer from lock rock, which can be disconcerting for less experienced knife users, and will be very noticeable in carving tasks, which I assume are a part of BSA usage.

I vote for an imported crossbar lock, and if the new design does well, perhaps a comp lock from Golden. Let the reboots have their own identity by ushering in a new lock style for Spyderco.

As it stands, the comp lock scene is getting "crowded" between P3, PM2, Sage5, Shaman, Bodacious, Military2, which cover a wide range really nicely. I can't imagine a Polestar/Alcyone in comp lock could ever get the attention it deserved when the PM2LW is always "just around the corner."

[sal]

We do have protos of Polestar and Alcyone models in back-lock, Compression Lock and Cross bar locks.

We do have 2 new locks that have yet to see production. The modified "Stop-Lock" and the "Roto-Wedge" that are still in engineering refinement.

I'm also working on a test to get a comparison between the "finger choil" version verses the "Handle Forward" version. It's a 5" blade Police model. We'll do a 1200 piece run of both versions at the same time. Same steel, grind, size, lock, etc. It's kinda my standard, "I don't know, let's try it and see what happens"?

sal

[vivi]

We do have protos of Polestar and Alcyone models in back-lock, Compression Lock and Cross bar locks.

We do have 2 new locks that have yet to see production. The modified "Stop-Lock" and the "Roto-Wedge" that are still in engineering refinement.

I'm also working on a test to get a comparison between the "finger choil" version verses the "Handle Forward" version. It's a 5" blade Police model. We'll do a 1200 piece run of both versions at the same time. Same steel, grind, size, lock, etc. It's kinda my standard, "I don't know, let's try it and see what happens"?

sal

really excited to see those Police XL's, especially the handle forward variant. Is it too soon to ask for a ballpark estimate of when you'll be able to show photos?

I'm also curious about the locks. I know the Military 2 was planned as a stop lock back in the day. Always wondered why that didn't pan out. This is the first I'm hearing of the other lock. Exciting news!

[CDEP]

We do have protos of Polestar and Alcyone models in back-lock, Compression Lock and Cross bar locks.

We do have 2 new locks that have yet to see production. The modified "Stop-Lock" and the "Roto-Wedge" that are still in engineering refinement.

I'm also working on a test to get a comparison between the "finger choil" version verses the "Handle Forward" version. It's a 5" blade Police model. We'll do a 1200 piece run of both versions at the same time. Same steel, grind, size, lock, etc. It's kinda my standard, "I don't know, let's try it and see what happens"?

sal

The Polestar & Alcyone deserve way more love than they get. I love those designs. I suppose a comp lock version would bring the most attention, but I'd rather have them in mid back lock. BD1N is fine for the steel, though Cru-Wear (or whatever Erasteel eventually calls the new stuff) might make me weep.

[Wartstein]

We do have protos of Polestar and Alcyone models in back-lock, Compression Lock and Cross bar locks.
...

Thanks for the update!

And I admit that I am just a diehard backlock guy anyway and thus certainly biased...

But that said: I think the (back lock) handle forward concept deserves another chance - perhaps this time more aggressively marketed as just that, and so I am all for the backlock-variants of Polestar and Alcyone

Edge all the way to the handle with comp.lock or crossbarlock is sure nice, but nothing new and exciting...

[Steeltoez83]

A 5 inch police model sounds very unique. Id probably call it the sergeant Hightower version.

[aicolainen]

I love the lockback, but I think the IKC outside of here seem to feel it's dated.

I think this is true, but there could be a "maturity" factor involved.
I like to say I'm new to folding knives, but it's been almost 10 years, so I guess that's not entirely true anymore.
Still so little time has passed that I remember quite well how it started out.
And one thing I remember very clearly is browsing through the Spyderco catalogue, seeing models I liked, but dismissing them for having the "outdated" backlock instead of the fidgety and cool CL, CBBL and cross bar locks all the cool kids on social media was raving about.
I was young(er), uninformed and unexperienced. Today (and for the last 5+ years) the mid back lock is my unrivaled favorite.

It's my impression that the (I)KC has attracted a large, new audience in later years. Maybe a big chunk of them will never get passed the pocket bling/fidget phase, but hopefully a decent chunk will mature, evolve their preferences and in time put more emphasis on function and how it performs in actual use.
If or when that happens, Spyderco should be ready for them with exciting and relevant back lock models. I'm not saying that they don't have that now, but @Wartstein and @JSumm brings up good points when pointing out the absence of/whishing there were Golden made mid backlocks with handle forward design and easi(er) to open hump designs.

Personally I think the Polestar will be too big for my preferences, but let's see how it turns out, I've never been good at not buying a good knife, even if there isn't an obvious use case :)
A handle forward mid back lock Alcyone could be right up my ally though.