What is a "front flipper?"

[Mushroom]

After a recent discussion in another thread, I forced myself to question if I actually understand what a “front flipper” is. I thought I had a grasp on what it meant, but it seems that Spyderco's use of the term is a bit more loose than how I’ve always understood it.

According to Spyderco, as listed in their Reveal 19 Catalog, the Mantra 4 is a "front flipper."

According to the photos shown in the Reveal 19 Catalog, the flipper tab is on the back of the knife.

What I don't understand is how that can be called a front flipper.




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The following is what I had always understood a front flipper to be - (Please excuse the non-spyderco example, they just don't make anything that would fit into the front flipper category as I thought of it.) (I did not choose this knife for any specific reason other than to demonstrate my understanding of a front flipper)

Notice the flipper tab is not located on the back of the knife, so it is not just called a "flipper" - the tab is on the opposite side (front?) of the knife and it is called a "front flipper."

"CIVIVI Exarch Front Flipper Knife"



I’m not asking these questions hypothetically. I want to try to re-establish some sort of baseline for discussion so we’re all on the same page -

What is the front of a knife? (Is this contextual depending on open or closed?)

What is the back of a knife? (Is this contextual depending on open or closed?)

What is a flipper knife?

What is a front flipper knife?

(or, are these just interchangeable terms? If they are, why is there any distinction to begin with?)

Can we call the Mantra 1, 2, and 3 "front flippers" as well?

Based on the first two of these knife questions, where is the flipper tab located on the Mantra 1, 2, and 3?

Based on the first two of these knife questions, where is the flipper tab located on the Mantra 4?

Is the Amalgam a front flipper?

Did Spyderco make a simple mistake by calling the Mantra 4 a "front flipper" and I am just making a bigger deal about it than anyone ever could have imagined?

I can understand that this is a relatively trivial thing to talk about but sometimes it’s the small details like this that shape how we understand the bigger picture.

[Paul Ardbeg]

We live in confusing times, maybe it is a flipper that identifies as front flipper

These 2 knives as an example. On the left a classic front flipper as I know them. On the right a flipper, but a pretty flat one like the Mantr 4. I tried and you can open it with your thumb as well. By that logic a front flipper is a flipper you open with your thumb?!

[BornIn1500]

I agree. It seems like a tweaked normal flipper. If the new Mantra is a "front flipper", then the term is used so loosely that we really do need yet another term for knives like that Civivi because there is a clear and significant difference. A front front flipper... the triple F? Spine flipper?

[phaust]

Front flipper has always been front or top like where jimping is or would be, not what the mantra 4 is pictured to be. That's just a regular flipper (unless I'm missing how it flips).

Does anyone have an example of a maker or company using it as Spyderco has here? TBH I think Spyderco just messed up the copy, and we're all just discussing a typo . It seems impossible it was intended to be called a front flipper.

[Danke]

Smock is a front flipper.



Anything without a prominent tab can be classed that.



Southard is not a front flipper.

[riclaw]

Ikuchi is a front flipper.

[Mushroom]

We live in confusing times, maybe it is a flipper that identifies as front flipper

These 2 knives as an example. On the left a classic front flipper as I know them. On the right a flipper, but a pretty flat one like the Mantr 4. I tried and you can open it with your thumb as well. By that logic a front flipper is a flipper you open with your thumb?!

LOL!

Your examples are how I had always understood it as well.

I agree. It seems like a tweaked normal flipper. If the new Mantra is a "front flipper", then the term is used so loosely that we really do need yet another term for knives like that Civivi because there is a clear and significant difference. A front front flipper... the triple F? Spine flipper?

It makes me wonder what Spyderco would call a knife like that Civivi.

Front flipper has always been front or top like where jimping is or would be, not what the mantra 4 is pictured to be. That's just a regular flipper (unless I'm missing how it flips).

Does anyone have an example of a maker or company using it as Spyderco has here? TBH I think Spyderco just messed up the copy, and we're all just discussing a typo . It seems impossible it was intended to be called a front flipper.

I thought so too. I had a slight feeling it might have just been a typo, or unintentional mistake, but I'm starting to think they mean it.

Smock is a front flipper.



Anything without a prominent tab can be classed that.



Southard is not a front flipper.

Is prominence of the flipper tab the only determining factor? Does location of the flipper tab affect how it's classified?

Ikuchi is a front flipper.

Honest question, why? What makes it a front flipper opposed to just a flipper?

[zhyla]

Is prominence of the flipper tab the only determining factor? Does location of the flipper tab affect how it's classified?

It's all about the location of the tab. If it's on the front of the knife (the "head" end of the closed knife) or the top front corner then it's a front flipper. In practice it requires a motion to activate that is "up" instead of "straight back".

[Mushroom]

Is prominence of the flipper tab the only determining factor? Does location of the flipper tab affect how it's classified?

It's all about the location of the tab. If it's on the front of the knife (the "head" end of the closed knife) or the top front corner then it's a front flipper. In practice it requires a motion to activate that is "up" instead of "straight back".

Location of the flipper tab is what I thought determined it too but but what I'm being told now is conflicting with what I thought was true.

"If it's on the front of the knife" - What is the front of a knife?

"or top front corner" - What is the top of a knife?

Neither the Smock nor Ikuchi require an "up" motion in practice. Mantra 4 as well. The motion is straight back but I'm being told those are front flippers. (My confusion is real.)

[zhyla]

Neither the Smock nor Ikuchi require an "up" motion in practice. Mantra 4 as well. The motion is straight back but I'm being told those are front flippers. (My confusion is real.)

No, you can't pull those tabs straight back in any of those because they are flush with the top of the knife.

Anyway, the terminology doesn't matter here. There's lots of variation in flipper tab placement.

[Danke]

Does location of the flipper tab affect how it's classified?

Yeah it needs to be at the "front".

[riclaw]

Honest question, why? What makes it a front flipper opposed to just a flipper?

The position of the wheel on the very end. If you can hold the knife like a lighter and flick the blade open using the thumb, it's a front flipper.

If the blade is deployed by flicking the index finger along the back of the knife, like a light switch, it's a regular flipper.

[Bolster]

The position of the wheel on the very end. If you can hold the knife like a lighter and flick the blade open using the thumb, it's a front flipper.

Seems like "end flipper" would be less confusing.

[ladybug93]

no one called flippers front flippers until they were flipped from the front of the knife. the mantra, based both on the pictures and spyderco's own description, is not a front flipper. weird mistake to make, but it doesn't really matter. it's not that deep.

[vivi]

ya'll are overthinking it

[Mushroom]

Neither the Smock nor Ikuchi require an "up" motion in practice. Mantra 4 as well. The motion is straight back but I'm being told those are front flippers. (My confusion is real.)

No, you can't pull those tabs straight back in any of those because they are flush with the top of the knife.

Anyway, the terminology doesn't matter here. There's lots of variation in flipper tab placement.

I would actually suggest that there is no other way to flip those flipper tabs with an index finger other than straight back.

It matters to me. There's a lot of variation in how folders are opened but I wouldn't call an assisted opening knife an automatic opening knife. We don't measure Behind the Edge thickness at the spine even though that is technically still a behind the edge measurement. If terminology doesn't matter then blade stock thickness and behind the edge thickness could just mean the same thing.

Does location of the flipper tab affect how it's classified?

Yeah it needs to be at the "front".

To that I would ask, What is the front?

It's not a trick question.

Honest question, why? What makes it a front flipper opposed to just a flipper?

The position of the wheel on the very end. If you can hold the knife like a lighter and flick the blade open using the thumb, it's a front flipper.

If the blade is deployed by flicking the index finger along the back of the knife, like a light switch, it's a regular flipper.

I think this could be partly why I'm confused. I agree that the flipper wheel is on the very end of the knife but I would've also said the wheel was still on the back of the knife. Is it not?

I just tested a handful of regular flippers that I could hold like a lighter and flip the blade using my thumb. All knives that, as far as I know, would've been called regular flippers: Mantra 3, Domino, Magnitude, Techno 3, Positron. Does that make them front flippers?

I only deploy the Ikuchi and Smock by flipping their flipper tabs like a light switch with my index finger. I can use my thumb like a lighter with both of them as well but for myself it feels more natural, comfortable, and secure to use the light switch flip with my index finger.

no one called flippers front flippers until they were flipped from the front of the knife. the mantra, based both on the pictures and spyderco's own description, is not a front flipper. weird mistake to make, but it doesn't really matter. it's not that deep.

I agree, it's a weird mistake for them to make and yes, it's not that deep - which is why I don't believe it should be controversial to establish a common understanding for this phrase. I acknowledge how trivial it is but I do think it still matters. It's difficult to have productive discussion's if no one is on the same page.

ya'll are overthinking it

How can we be sure that is actually a front flipper though?

Could we call this a front flipper too because he initiates the flip from a position in front of where he lands?

_______

Could flipper tab placement in relation to the pivot help define this?

Flipper tab in front of the pivot = front flipper?

Flipper tab behind the pivot = regular flipper?

We would still need to define what "in front of" and "behind" the pivot means but it would be effective to determine what to call these knives without letting any other criteria like deployment method get in the way.

[Danke]

To that I would ask, What is the front?

It's not a trick question.

The front's the pointy end when you're using it.

It's not a trick answer.

[Mushroom]

To that I would ask, What is the front?

It's not a trick question.

The front's the pointy end when you're using it.

It's not a trick answer.

This is a new development in my understanding...

This is word for word your explanation, so don't shoot the messenger - A front flipper tab has to be located on the pointy end when you're using it for the knife to be classified as a front flipper.

Ok... well since that doesn't make any sense, I am still just as confused as I was before.

[CDEP]

I deploy both the Ikuchi and the Smock with a "regular flipper" index finger motion, but one *can* use the thumb "front flipper" motion. I guess that qualifies them as Front flippers.

Regular flipper tabs *cannot* be deployed with the thumb.

That's been my understanding, anyway...

[zhyla]

The front's the pointy end when you're using it.

It's not a trick answer.

This is a new development in my understanding...