H1Spyderco Machete?

[Fireman]

Spyderco could get a patent on a machete specific serrations, so please don’t post serration designs here. A leaf shape machete would have a double negative blade angle AND have a forward weight optimal for placing energy where needed and reducing vibration transfer. A person could swap the handle around if the handle was single sided or use either side if the handle was double sided like the smatchet

[JoviAl]

+1 for Silky's handle designs (replaceable rubber).

I also think their saw sheath designs are simple, probably low cost, and effective.

With them being based in Japan (like H2...) and in the commercial/serious consumer saw/big knife market i wonder if a collaboration is in order?

I would LOVE a collaboration between Spyderco and Silky, but I would imagine as two titans of the ‘making one thing into many things’ industry there would likely be some conflicts of interest.

Husqvarna or Stihl might be a different proposition, but apart from improved visibility to their target demographics I don’t know what else they could bring to a relationship with Spyderco.

[sal]

Hi Al,

I'm a fan of Silky products. Have more than a few. I Even thought about a Spyderco/Silky collaboration on a folding saw. (another subject). I use the Nata and the two part rubber handle is brilliant.

That's what I was thinking for a handle design. I think it would need to maybe have a longer rear hook. But the concept and execution is very good.

sal

[JoviAl]

Hi Al,

I'm a fan of Silky products. Have more than a few. I Even thought about a Spyderco/Silky collaboration on a folding saw. (another subject). I use the Nata and the two part rubber handle is brilliant.

That's what I was thinking for a handle design. I think it would need to maybe have a longer rear hook. But the concept and execution is very good.

sal

Hi Sal,

I think (ironically) in the industry Silky is more renowned for their comfortable and well designed handles and sheathes than their actual blades. I’ve been using them commercially on and off for 23 years now (saying that makes me feel old!), in that we often find a blade from another manufacturer that is a better design, but we always end up swapping back to Silky for their lovely handles and well designed sheathes (the arborist climbers’ saw range of sheathes particularly are exceptional). ARS Turbocut saws have a better blade than any Silky I’ve worked with, but as an overall package Silky works better. I would cherish a Spyderco x Silky collab of any sort, especially if you could iterate/improve on their saw teeth design.

As for the hook at the end of the Nata handle I agree it could be improved. I was considering the notion of a machete mule from the position of handles not being available to buy from you guys. If you’d be willing to do a handle for it as an add on purchase I’d be thrilled, as I’d be the first person to admit I’ve no idea how to make an impact absorbent handle

[vivi]

One question: Are rubber handles (or rubber inserts on handles) prone to more wear and rotting compared to, say, solid FRN?

Jim

that dogfather is close to 20 years old and the handle is immaculate. It has been used very hard. Clearing trails, splitting countless logs, chopping through downed limbs etc. Whatever they're using holds up well. It feels denser than my SRK handles.

[sal]

Hi Al,

We'd probably make a handle available, and others might as well.

If we were to make a proto, Maybe you, and some others, could do some testing for us? Maybe a pass-around?

sal

[JoviAl]

Hi Al,

We'd probably make a handle available, and others might as well.

If we were to make a proto, Maybe you, and some others, could do some testing for us? Maybe a pass-around?

sal

I’d be happy to do my bit, whatever that looks like

[Bill1170]

IMG_5541.jpeg

They fit on like a lock and key to some nubs on the tang. People could still make their own, but if a hypothetical machete mule has interoperability with a commonly available proven handle design it would make like very simple for commercial users in the Tree Surgery/Arborism/Landscaping/Land Management sectors to get on board.

Just a thought.

That’s a lot like the two-piece handle design I had in my head, and it just snaps on/off. Brilliant simplicity.

[Red Leader]

IMG_5541.jpeg

They fit on like a lock and key to some nubs on the tang. People could still make their own, but if a hypothetical machete mule has interoperability with a commonly available proven handle design it would make like very simple for commercial users in the Tree Surgery/Arborism/Landscaping/Land Management sectors to get on board.

Just a thought.

That’s a lot like the two-piece handle design I had in my head, and it just snaps on/off. Brilliant simplicity.

The handle looks good and the design is excellent, but I do think we would have to be careful about translating the snap-on/snap-off handle design from a saw to a high impact machete. Likely, the forces are very different, and if you've ever watched any share of Joe X videos on destructive testing (he also tests a bunch of machetes), handle design and stress risers become extremely important in high impact use. Those destructive tests end up being very instructive. As Sal has previously said, you never know what the limit is until you surpass it.

I do think the design still needs to be some version of full tang with no stress risers near the handle junction...but to incorporate a clamshell handle around that, that can still somehow absorb those shocks...it is a fine line that a very careful design just might be able to pull off.

[JoviAl]

IMG_5541.jpeg

They fit on like a lock and key to some nubs on the tang. People could still make their own, but if a hypothetical machete mule has interoperability with a commonly available proven handle design it would make like very simple for commercial users in the Tree Surgery/Arborism/Landscaping/Land Management sectors to get on board.

Just a thought.

That’s a lot like the two-piece handle design I had in my head, and it just snaps on/off. Brilliant simplicity.

The handle looks good and the design is excellent, but I do think we would have to be careful about translating the snap-on/snap-off handle design from a saw to a high impact machete. Likely, the forces are very different, and if you've ever watched any share of Joe X videos on destructive testing (he also tests a bunch of machetes), handle design and stress risers become extremely important in high impact use. Those destructive tests end up being very instructive. As Sal has previously said, you never know what the limit is until you surpass it.

I do think the design still needs to be some version of full tang with no stress risers near the handle junction...but to incorporate a clamshell handle around that, that can still somehow absorb those shocks...it is a fine line that a very careful design just might be able to pull off.

That is off Silky’s line of machetes and choppers - the Nata is a heavy duty chopper/axe substitute.

Edit - here’s a pic of the whole thing

The handle is really on there - it has these sort of T shaped metal protrusions that it attaches to in the rubber.

[Red Leader]

IMG_5541.jpeg

They fit on like a lock and key to some nubs on the tang. People could still make their own, but if a hypothetical machete mule has interoperability with a commonly available proven handle design it would make like very simple for commercial users in the Tree Surgery/Arborism/Landscaping/Land Management sectors to get on board.

Just a thought.

That’s a lot like the two-piece handle design I had in my head, and it just snaps on/off. Brilliant simplicity.

The handle looks good and the design is excellent, but I do think we would have to be careful about translating the snap-on/snap-off handle design from a saw to a high impact machete. Likely, the forces are very different, and if you've ever watched any share of Joe X videos on destructive testing (he also tests a bunch of machetes), handle design and stress risers become extremely important in high impact use. Those destructive tests end up being very instructive. As Sal has previously said, you never know what the limit is until you surpass it.

I do think the design still needs to be some version of full tang with no stress risers near the handle junction...but to incorporate a clamshell handle around that, that can still somehow absorb those shocks...it is a fine line that a very careful design just might be able to pull off.

That is off Silky’s line of machetes and choppers - the Nata is a heavy duty chopper/axe substitute.

Edit - here’s a pic of the whole thing
IMG_5542.png

The handle is really on there - it has these sort of T shaped metal protrusions that it attaches to in the rubber.

Oh good! Happy to be wrong about that one. I have a Silky saw and it is great, not aware of their other offerings.

Any you can get the handles aftermarket? If there is no infringement, it seems like a step in the right direction!

[JoviAl]

That’s a lot like the two-piece handle design I had in my head, and it just snaps on/off. Brilliant simplicity.

The handle looks good and the design is excellent, but I do think we would have to be careful about translating the snap-on/snap-off handle design from a saw to a high impact machete. Likely, the forces are very different, and if you've ever watched any share of Joe X videos on destructive testing (he also tests a bunch of machetes), handle design and stress risers become extremely important in high impact use. Those destructive tests end up being very instructive. As Sal has previously said, you never know what the limit is until you surpass it.

I do think the design still needs to be some version of full tang with no stress risers near the handle junction...but to incorporate a clamshell handle around that, that can still somehow absorb those shocks...it is a fine line that a very careful design just might be able to pull off.

That is off Silky’s line of machetes and choppers - the Nata is a heavy duty chopper/axe substitute.

Edit - here’s a pic of the whole thing
IMG_5542.png

The handle is really on there - it has these sort of T shaped metal protrusions that it attaches to in the rubber.

Oh good! Happy to be wrong about that one. I have a Silky saw and it is great, not aware of their other offerings.

Any you can get the handles aftermarket? If there is no infringement, it seems like a step in the right direction!

Yeah, the handles are available on their own. They cost about $13 if I remember righty.

[zhyla]

Though I must admit that a 16" fully serrated Machete Mule is an interesting thought.

I think it would take some testing to determine the size and edge geometry of the serrations?

sal

I think it’s important to define what the testing should look like. As I hope is clear in the thread “machete” means a lot of things to a lot of people. And everyone pretty much adapts them to the vegetation around them.

Off the top of my head, bamboo, banana, some kind of tall grass or weeds, and 1/2” hardwood branches represent the range of vegetation I would use a traditional machete on. Others have their own of course. I predict an advantage with grass and a disadvantage with bamboo. But that’s just a guess.

I’m skeptical an SE machete will be a clear win but I’m interested in the testing.

Jovial’s idea of cutting serrations into an off the shelf machete has some advantage in that it’s easy to A/B test vs a plain edge machete of the same geometry. I’m half tempted to throw one on my CNC and serrate it but got no time right now.

[Naperville]

Last year my mother approved work for the removal of upwards of 50+ large diameter weed trees on the property. There is still a patch of land with trees on it and I can test whatever comes of this project on those trees and branches, assuming a mule is forthcoming.

If there is no mule, I'll try to buy two of the final product, make one a user and go to town on the trees.

Right now I am going to buy one or two machetes that have been discussed in this thread for a comparison of the cutting event.

I think a double edged tool is an excellent idea, one fully serrated and one plain edge.

[JoviAl]

Jovial’s idea of cutting serrations into an off the shelf machete has some advantage in that it’s easy to A/B test vs a plain edge machete of the same geometry. I’m half tempted to throw one on my CNC and serrate it but got no time right now.

I think you’ve got a solid point there. I’ve just ordered two 18 inch parang machetes that should arrive early next week. I’ll SE one of them and try to do some apples to apples tests. It’s always a bit tricky with the materials that machetes are used to cut as it’s rarely perfectly homogeneous, but I’ll try averaging the tests out.

[Jeb]

Here is my first chewing on a junkie Kukri that after getting the new BK21, this old Kukri is a great test bed, but after using it before and after the SE, then using the new BK21, the BK21 is going to be what would make a better blade shape for the SE imo.

I left the very tip not SE'd, for the fact the Kukri will get snagged to easy. The other area you will see in the pix I didn't SE from the handle through this more narrow part of this Kukri, I was more worried about the bending of it as this thing is cheap and not much improvement over the hrc of regular tie wire lol.

I used the more wider rock for the most of the SE, but then I used the smaller one in groups of 3 cuts just to break the pattern up. Not sure if this will be seen clearly in the pix.

I used a power wired brush to clean the rust and corrosion off this Kukri, so it looks the same cut more so than not.

I need to sharpen this entire blade as it not very sharp by my likes, this will enhance the SE more as well as the tip of this Kukri. I never try to use the more narrowed part for cutting or anything of this thing, never dared too lol. The new BK21 first.

[Doc Dan]

I know I’ve been banging the H2 drum throughout this thread, but I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the 14C28N machete I’ve serrated’s rust resistance. I don’t know the relative costs, but I would put it forward for consideration for this project. Then again I’m sure Spyderco have a vastly more encyclopaedic knowledge of what steels might be fit for purpose than I do.

I like 14C28N pretty well. I have some knives in that steel and never an issue. But, this is about H2 and I wonder about it. I know it would be more corrosion resistant, but edge retention? I don't know if it can do it or not.

[Fireman]

Last year my mother approved work for the removal of upwards of 50+ large diameter weed trees on the property. There is still a patch of land with trees on it and I can test whatever comes of this project on those trees and branches, assuming a mule is forthcoming.

If there is no mule, I'll try to buy two of the final product, make one a user and go to town on the trees.

Right now I am going to buy one or two machetes that have been discussed in this thread for a comparison of the cutting event.

I think a double edged tool is an excellent idea, one fully serrated and one plain edge.

For a test mule, a symmetrical double edge would take out all the other factors so you can get a good test of plain edge vs serrated.
Even if it is serrated and the other side not sharpened, the user could put a plain edge on it pretty easily. This Cold Steel double edge Machete would be a good test mule for someone who has the ability to add serrations for testing.

[Fireman]

Jeb, that serrated Kukri would have given the Japanese nightmares.

[cabfrank]

It looks ferocious.