Benchmade AFCK

[aicolainen]

I struggle enough to get some grasp of Spyderco's history, so I generally don't even bother to look at older models from other companies.
Anyways.. a day or so ago I was looking at a knife review on YT, and the reviewer pulls up a AFCK for comparison and I was instantly intrigued. Now I don't even remember what knife he reviewed in the first place

Beyond the first eye-catching qualities e.g. round opening hole, appealing design lines and no axis lock (early versions), it gets even more interesting as soon as you look into it a little bit and realize how intertwined Spyderco is in the story of this knife.

Now I'm not sure it's true that the designer, Chris Caracci went to Spyderco with his idea first, but it seems to at least be very well established that the inspiration for his design was the Spyderco Police. And he came up with a slightly modified Police, mainly to make it with a liner lock and an edge that goes all the way back to the handle. Changes that he felt would make it more suitable for his military application as a Navy seal.
Spyderco, apparently wasn't too enthusiastic (at this point), but he was able to convince Benchmade. Who in turn had to get a licensing agreement with Spyderco to use the round opening hole that was such a critical feature of the knife Chris wanted.
It's also interesting that not long after Chris Caracci got Benchmade to make his ideal, militarized version of the Spyderco Police, Spyderco releases a new model which incorporates some of the same ideas - and calls it the Military Model.

This is a very uninformed summary of the info I've stumbled across in the few waking hours I've known about the AFCK. It should not be considered as fact, just inspiration for more research.

And my reason for making this thread is exactly to see if there are some better informed people on this forum. For a knife (AFCK) that seems to have a very loyal following and collectors status, it's surpringly hard to find in-depth historical information as it relates to generations and different versions.
I'm not a regular user of BladeForums, but I tried reviving and old thread about the AFCK, and ask around, but it's not getting any traction. Given the close ties this model has to Spyderco, I'm hoping that there could be some knowledge and interest in the model on this forum.

[vivi]

I remember really wanting an AFCK back in the day. Then the Police 3 came out and I got that instead.

Interesting thread. I'll be watching it.

[yablanowitz]

Have you read the "Shiny footprints" thread? There has been some friction in the past that is best left there. That said, here are a few tidbits I remember from over the years.

The first US made Spyderco knives were manufactured by Benchmade before Spyderco had their production facility done.

When the AFCK was being designed, Sal's patent on "a depression in the blade" to facilitate opening with the thumb was in force, as well as the trademark on the round hole.

Spyderco's trademark was acknowledged on the packaging but not on the knives themselves.

I seem to recall that Sal actually sent Chris to Les DeAsis , but I could be wrong about that.

[Skywalker]

Your information tracks pretty well with what I remember reading about the AFCK a few years ago. There used to be more information on old bladeforums threads but it looks like a lot of those are completely gone now, not even archived.

I'll add that I got the impression Caracci might not have been the easiest person to work with, between the short relationship with Benchmade and the lack of relationship with Spyderco (I've heard it both ways, that Spyderco passed on the AFCK design, or that Caracci passed on working with Spyderco when an acquaintance/friend of his who worked for Spyderco was let go while Caracci was working on the AFCK design).

As for the circle vs oval opening hole and Spyderco's licensing - the circle works a lot better for me, and if you want a stronger opinion on the matter go dig up Deacon's old posts.


Personally I have not owned any Benchmade 800s (original liner lock AFCK) or 812s (liner lock mini AFCK), but I do have an 806D2 (later Axis lock version, oval opening hole) and previously owned an 806BK-1101 (black M390 blade, circle opening hole, nice contoured blue/black scales w/blue standoffs rather than usual 806 solid backspacer).

It's a cool design although not the best for me personally. The one finger groove in the handle without a clear choil I don't find as natural as either the 710's more neutral handle or the Military's forward finger choil. The saber ground blade is also not as efficient of a slicer as the Military's ffg, though it may be more durable if you expect that to be a concern.

I did eventually get my 806D2 reground to FFG which helped a bit but the D2 still noticeably lags S30V or other more modern PM steels. The 806BK-1101 I sold because I preferred the 710 or Millie and one AFCK was enough.


As far as variants, in addition to the basic 800 in ATS-34 and 806 in D2 also keep an eye out for limited runs of the the 800 in M2 and M390, 806 in M4 and M390, and 800 "knife of the month" (KOTM) with green tortoiseshell scales. I think that the 800BK-1001 and 806-1101/806BK-1101 in 2010 and 2011 were the last hurrah, so anything you find is going to be about 15 years old at least by now.

There's also the 805 TSEK, which is the same Axis lock handle as the 806 but with a thumbstud blade, but this post is already long enough.


I think I have some solo pics of the 806D2 regrind on my imgur; I'll also try and get some comparisons with the 710, Millie, and Millie 2.

It's a cool knife that like many other 90s-2000s Benchmades we don't see much of anymore, lost in a sea of Griptilians and 940s from the same era and Bugouts and 940s from the present day. :)

[Skywalker]

806D2 regrind to FFG with a little bit of swedge - very clean low-grit (because I'm cheap) job done by Josh at REK years ago.




In the D2, PSF-27, CTS-XHP lineup.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Yum yum yum I love that whole family of knives.

[aicolainen]

Have you read the "Shiny footprints" thread? There has been some friction in the past that is best left there. That said, here are a few tidbits I remember from over the years.

Thanks Yab, for shedding some light on the early history of Spyderco and the cooperation with Benchmade.

I do indeed try to keep my footprints shiny. I was not aware of any friction in this story (though very few stories are completely frictionless) and my motivation is not to open old wounds.
I just happened to come across a vintage non-Spyderco knife that appealed to my curiosity, in no small part due to the round hole. A favorite feature of any folding knife and a clear indication that there could be some shared, interesting history with my favorite knife brand. It quickly became apparent that the shared history went further than just the opening hole. Which on the surface made the AFCK even more interesting in my eyes. But of course any indication of paths crossed in the past could be seen a red flag for potentially uncovering an old conflict, but if we're being that careful we can't do much research at all. And while stories of cooperation and friendship gives me more joy, even unpleasant chapters from the past can be an important part of history that better help us understand both the past and present. Both as it relates to knife designs and otherwise. And just to be clear, if there is unflattering information relating the individual persons in this story, or even the companies themselves, I'm not interested. I'm just interested in the knives, how they came about and how they might have inspired each other.

Your information tracks pretty well with what I remember reading about the AFCK a few years ago. There used to be more information on old bladeforums threads but it looks like a lot of those are completely gone now, not even archived.

Thank you for the long and informative post, Skywalker!

If I pick one up, it's purely for collecting purposes, so I'm not too worried about blade geometry and ergonomics. Though I may choose to carry it if I should suddenly feel the urge to carry a 4" beast :D

I know I've said in the past that I'm not a knife collector. I guess that statement didn't age so well.
My collecting interest is very narrow in scope, and relates purely to designs with a law enforcement or military origin. Which is funny because I don't have any interest in tactical knives for EDC. I still hardly have any "collection" knives and still no safe queens, so it's still more of an idea at this point.

[aicolainen]

806D2 regrind to FFG with a little bit of swedge - very clean low-grit (because I'm cheap) job done by Josh at REK years ago.

That turned out very nice!
I prefer a functional/toolish esthetic, so I really do like it.

In the D2, PSF-27, CTS-XHP lineup.

There's no use putting it next to a Junction. That's all I see in that picture
Can't think of a discontinued Spyderco I want as much as the Junction. Oh well, different story for a different time. Thanks for taking the time to share pictures of your AFCK.

[Midnightrider]

I have a 1st edition CQC7 somewhere that I carried non-stop for about 10 years. Great grind, great steel, great serrations, outstanding knife. The disc worked for what it was for, but I like the lower profile of the Spydie hole better.

I prefer a larger knife, my dailies are either a P4 in K390 or an OG Military in S110V. Otherwise, for a knife the size the CQC7 was, I haven't seen anything more useful. The serrations were sharp enough that I used to cut my fingernails with them.

[James Y]

I have a full-sized and a mini-AFCK. As well as a couple of TSEKs. If I can, I'll try to post a pic of them at some point. My AFCKs, which I got in the late '90s, have the round hole instead of the oval hole.

I remember many years ago, Chris Caracci used to have a sub-forum on BF, and had a thread discussing this. One thing I'll add is that he said he'll always prefer liner locks over back locks, which it seemed he didn't trust for 'tactical' use. He also didn't trust the Axis lock, feeling it would be too easy to disengage.under stress.

When the AFCK was designed, liner locks were the "in" thing. And some people still favor them over other lock types today.

Jim

[aicolainen]

I have a full-sized and a mini-AFCK. As well as a couple of TSEKs. If I can, I'll try to post a pic of them at some point. My AFCKs, which I got in the late '90s, have the round hole instead of the oval hole.

I remember many years ago, Chris Caracci used to have a sub-forum on BF, and had a thread discussing this. One thing I'll add is that he said he'll always prefer liner locks over back locks, which it seemed he didn't trust for 'tactical' use. He also didn't trust the Axis lock, feeling it would be too easy to disengage.under stress.

When the AFCK was designed, liner locks were the "in" thing. And some people still favor them over other lock types today.

Jim

Thank you for contributing to the discussion Jim.
I've also picked up some info here and there indicating that Mr. Caracci didn't trust the Axis lock for some reason (Navy seal stuff). So far I've not found any info suggesting he disliked the backlock, only some posts indicating he chose the liner lock over a backlock for the AFCK to avoid having a choil or ricasso and as such have an edge that goes all the way to the handle. That's my current interpretation at least, but it would have been nice to have better source material for these kind of details.

Edit: this statement aged poorly and quickly. https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/chr ... ns.171773/
No specific reasoning for why he doesn't like backlocks, but there's hardly any love there.

[aicolainen]

Found an interesting thread where Sal himself chimes in with what he remembers regarding being approached by Caracci for the production of the AFCK.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/chr ... ci.119426/

This genuinely appear to have been a clean process without bad blood or hurt feelings.

[Manixguy@1994]

No need to add what has already been said on the subject , but here is a visual of my BM 812 Mini . MG2

[Skywalker]

No need to add what has already been said on the subject , but here is a visual of my BM 812 Mini . MG2

Dan with the deep collection and the pocket clip on the correct side

[Skywalker]

Couple of visual comparisons. Millie, Millie 2, 806, 710.

Personal taste and all but Millie 2 > all the others. I do still often carry the 710 hunting.






Something special about that first generation of axis lock Benchmades, though. And big props to Knifeworks for all the limited editions of these they did late 00s - early 10s. Lots of M390 and M4.

806, 710, 615, 732

[vivi]

full sized ruckus was my favorite BM. If I saw one for a fair price I'd snag it.

710 is a classic but the thumb ramp placement was too far back for me.

they had some cool designs in the 2000's. not much catches my eye from their current catalog.

[James Y]

Top to bottom:

TSEK, AFCK, mini-AFCK, Spyderco Police (obviously).



Jim

[James Y]

full sized ruckus was my favorite BM. If I saw one for a fair price I'd snag it.

710 is a classic but the thumb ramp placement was too far back for me.

they had some cool designs in the 2000's. not much catches my eye from their current catalog.

The last Benchmade I bought was back in 2004.

Jim

[Manixguy@1994]

No need to add what has already been said on the subject , but here is a visual of my BM 812 Mini . MG2

Dan with the deep collection and the pocket clip on the correct side

Ha ha ! Friend was a knife dealer and bought this Lefty on close out for $67.00 . Dan

[James Y]

I have a full-sized and a mini-AFCK. As well as a couple of TSEKs. If I can, I'll try to post a pic of them at some point. My AFCKs, which I got in the late '90s, have the round hole instead of the oval hole.

I remember many years ago, Chris Caracci used to have a sub-forum on BF, and had a thread discussing this. One thing I'll add is that he said he'll always prefer liner locks over back locks, which it seemed he didn't trust for 'tactical' use. He also didn't trust the Axis lock, feeling it would be too easy to disengage.under stress.

When the AFCK was designed, liner locks were the "in" thing. And some people still favor them over other lock types today.

Jim

Thank you for contributing to the discussion Jim.
I've also picked up some info here and there indicating that Mr. Caracci didn't trust the Axis lock for some reason (Navy seal stuff). So far I've not found any info suggesting he disliked the backlock, only some posts indicating he chose the liner lock over a backlock for the AFCK to avoid having a choil or ricasso and as such have an edge that goes all the way to the handle. That's my current interpretation at least, but it would have been nice to have better source material for these kind of details.

Edit: this statement aged poorly and quickly. https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/chr ... ns.171773/
No specific reasoning for why he doesn't like backlocks, but there's hardly any love there.

I seem to remember reading Chris Caracci's actual post, way back when his subforum was active, where he stated he would never trust a lockback for a knife intended for his uses (tactical).

* Edit: Just went back to that link and saw his full statement on that again, and for the most part, my memory was accurate. It's been around 25 years, maybe longer, since I read his original post.

Jim