MT40 HIC

[Jeb]

Well the curiosity about theseMT40 HIC Mules in particular has been eating away at me all I could bare lol. I just ordered one of these to check this all out myself.

Got one of the cool perfect fit G10 scale assembly for it as well. I am so old school about all this sort of technology, I just don't have a clue about these HIC Mules.

So what better way than with the Mule. Anyway looking forward to checking this amazing technology out, as I am quite certain it's hard blade and it will fit right in around here...

[Jeb]

Got the HIC Mule in today and I must say I am quite disappointed by the lack of an actual bevel on this blade... what bevel there is, it's not even from shank to point.

Looks to me, like when they did try to put the edge on this blade they did this with something that was about .375" wide and a powered wet wheel maybe, and it has dug in in parts of it and other parts of the bevel it just kind of rounded it over, then they flipped it over and repeat the same attempt at a bevel on the otherside.

I basically got a Shiney, wavy line down where the cutting edge should be. I am totally shocked at how this blade looks and feels.

Heck I don't have anything here to even come close to being able to rough a true bevel in on this blade, heck I think I can keep one maintained, but not even sure of that; and the very reason I bought this was to see if I can even keep a good edge honed on it.

Didn't even think it was coming without a good edge to begin with. I do like the color of this blade, the thing doesn't weigh much either.

You other guys that bought these get them like this also?

[Mage7]

The one I got had a decent bevel, but it was extremely obtuse and dull enough that I could run my fingers up and down the edge with considerable pressure. Seriously, I think I have felt plastic cutlery knives that were sharper.

Do you have a set of diamond plates? I didn't actually find it very difficult to reprofile on an atoma 400, but it took a little bit of extra work to get the micro chips from that out on the 1200.

I was never able to get it very sharp. I mean, not shaving sharp anyways, but sharp enough to cut up receipt paper wasn't too difficult, just took time.

[sal]

This is an experimental Mule Team blade that was brought to us by one of you, and further discussion indicated that you wanted to try one. It was time consuming, and expensive to get the piece to you, which included our having to make special tooling. But we did. We said that it is difficult to sharpen and I asked that you come up with sharpening methods.

I'm please to say that some of you really did take on the challenge and figured out how to get a good edge and shared it on this forum. We put a rough edge on it, which was also time consuming. We're steel guys, not ceramic guys. If you read through this forum, you will find that some methods of getting a good edge are available, as explained by members of this group.

sal

[Jeb]

Thanks fellows, I too will take on the challenge to first just get some kind of an established bevel on the blade. I just didn't expect it to not have something of a bevel lol.

Heck I have to admit too, I asked for this by basically placing the order lol. So I will do some more reading on here before ordering more diamond hones to tackle this.

I have a couple sets here now, but I think from what I have power read over several posts here, I am going to need some finer grades to tackle this blade.

I can't even begin to grasp how much time these were/are at the manufacturing level Sal... thank you for your time in the response here, more time on the HIC project lol.

I am sure I can figure something out with post from some the others here and a little grit in my elbow and determination. Heck I really like the look of the black blade and the black G10 scales I bought with it.

It looks truly awesome together. I get this blade honed I am really curious as to how it cuts. Thanks again for building blades like this and whether we really need them or not. We asked for it, now I got one, the rest is up to me to see if I have the sand to finish this up...

[Jeb]

Still working on getting the bevel profiled in this hard blade. Without doubt the hardest blade I have ever honed.

This HIC is simply amazing at how hard it is. I have decided to hone this at 19 dps and I can safely say I got the biggest part of the bevel established at this point. Finally lol

Still have not ordered a finer grit hone I need for the finished edge, just so many things going on around here that gets in the way of these more fun projects.

One thing is for sure, honing the edge on this blade darn sure doesn't happen quick, at least with mine it hasn't lol. There was a lot of material to remove even at 19 dps .

I really like the black color of this Mule also. Going to be really interesting to use this once I get it honed properly...

[TomAiello]

Have you tried diamond plates (or belts)?

I have been using the Rahven HIC kitchen knives for a couple years now, and when they need sharpening (maybe once a year) I use diamond plates.

I think if I wanted to work on the bevel, I would probably use diamond belts of some kind.

FWIW, the achilles heel of the material appears to be twisting. We have broken two in the kitchen (the Rahven blade is much thinner than the MT40 blade) cutting things like frozen butter. For anything that takes more force (frozen chicken, for example) I always reach for a steel blade.

FWIW, the blade in our kitchen that does the most meat prep is the Spyderco South Fork.

[Bolster]

Still working on getting the bevel profiled in this hard blade..

Jeb, you did see this thread, yes?

viewtopic.php?t=96198

[Jeb]

Thank you for the response about this. I did see this and read in it many of the guys could actually cut paper with theirs out of the box.

Mine I guess is one of those at the other end of that spectrum lol. It had no even bevel anywhere on the cutting edge.

I have been just trying to establish the resemblance of a 19 degree angle on each side of this blade to just start with.

It's really slow going by hand honing with 600 grit when you don't have anything that is even, were the edge of the blade is, it's not consistent in any regard. It's more rounded over, well was; I do have the beginning of angles on each side of this blade.

I have spent several hours just to get to this point. I did order some really fine grit diamond hone bars to finish this once I get it to that stage. Got those ordered yesterday. I am a steel guy and never figured I would need anything finer grit than what I already had lol.

This blade, I should have got back when I had more seat time to spend on projects like this. Right now seat time is hard to come by. I will get this blade sharp, the time frame in which it happens is going to be much more than what I have read about on the others that started out with actual bevel established though lol.

This blade really was received what I would call as blanked out. Ready to start the cutting edge. I will get this blade sharp though, like the look of the black Mule, think it looks pretty cool actually...

Thanks again for the response.

[Jeb]

Got in some finer grit diamond hones, 1200, 2000 and 3000 to help finish the edge once I finish chewing away the rough and uneven angles on each side of my HIC Mule with 600 and 800 grit.

I did get somewhat better results when I started wetting the hone with rubbing alcohol. I don't have my HIC Mule like a Razor, but it will cut paper now.

I really have spent a lot of seat time getting this Mule where it is now and it being the first Ceramic blade I have ever had, must say these HIC Mules are killer looking cloaked in all black, all my other Mules shine lol...

Think I got a few more hours before I will have this Mule where it will finally become a real sharp blade, but I have the hones to finish the edge I am capable of putting on this HIC Mule, so a little more seat time and I will know if I can make this blade a Razor lol...

[Jeb]

Double post. Having trouble with the forum slow to respond.

[sal]

Hi Jeb,

Let us knowhow the finer grits work. It is an awesome piece in general.

sal

[Jeb]

Sal,

The finer grit is up next, once the final profile is established. I will say that the rubbing alcohol wetted hones really makes for much smoother draws of the Mule across the hone. I really like how it feels while I draw it across the hone. Its got to help lol, I will take every little advantage I can get...

[Jeb]

Well, I still have not been able to hone this HIC Mule to Razor. It isn't from the lack of seat time on the hones either.

I have the honed bevels on this Mule where you can see yourself in them lol. They are a true 19 dps profile, which may be some of the issue here with it only being just really sharp.

I have concerns of this blade being made from ceramic breaking and or fracturing, is the main reason I started this blade at the 19 dps. Heck it's my first ever ceramic blade and I have no idea what I am doing lol.

I just know this blade is really hard and the blade has taken me many hours to get it just sharp. To re-profile this blade to a lower profile would be a major challenge for me if that is what I need to do lol.

Yet, here I am with this HIC Mule and it's only just sharp. Heck I don't have any blade around here that isn't like a Razor or I can hone out to one in short order.

The ceramic is kicking my tail lol. I have had visions of taking this blade to my 12" X 2" bench grinder and re-profile it on that sucker lol and then I just wake up lol.

It did really well all day yesterday around here using the hound out of it to see how quick it would dull out, or break. I shaved bark off tree limbs and even hacked at a few smaller, more hairy limbs that just needed to be cut from the big hardwoods and Cedars around here.

I can't say enough about the black finish on this Mule either, I really like the finish. I took B-12 Chemtool to clean all the sticky tree sap off it and never once had a concern. Looks brandy new and it's still just sharp lol...

Just wanted to report back on this, and if anyone has a better profile to use on these I am all ears(eyes, since we read here)...

[burlyspyder]

I have tried sharpening extensively. You can find my methods and images in the sharpening thread. After extensive testing across many methods, I have found the only reliable way to sharpen to extremes (not fully documented) was to use very high grit diamond or CBN. CBN takes longer, but is a little less prone to chipping with more shallow abrasion.

HOWEVER. I have found the trick to this is to continuously remove the material from the sharpening surface/media. Any ceramic material removed causes accelerated additional chipping.

Based on this, my hypothetical ideal scenario would be using a plastic 20-30k diamond film belt that moves through a water bath with a surfactant to aid in the removal of ceramic particles from the belt. To be clear - I have not tested this. But if I use 30k diamond film, and replace it, or rinse it off, VERY FREQUENTLY, I have been able to get it hair popping.

If you achieve this at any point - STOP. Odds are you will only make it worse beyond a shave. The good thing is, when you get it there, it will stay there, as long as you use standard blade-edge care.

Actually, if you have the a LOT of time - I have also gotten reasonable/usable results from hand-sharpening on a king 3k stone followed by a 6k. Same principal applies though - do this under running water. Otherwise the HIC material will eat itself.

Hope this helps.

-burly

[Jeb]

Burly,

Thanks for the response... I have gotten where it will shave hair easy enough with working up to the 3k grit diamond hone and alcohol bath. The alcohol really made the big difference for me.

It has been the most different thing I have ever tried to sharpen. Makes perfect sense to me you saying the hone needs to be rinsed off too. The alcohol works really well for me as it will rinse off the hone and it dries not leaving a mess on the concrete floor lol, yet it also wets the hone and makes for a more smooth draw across it.

Once the alcohol has dried off the hone, it's time to rinse off and re-wet the hone. The alcohol dries so nice not leaving a mess on the concrete floor too.

As hard as this material is, in my mind it should be able to be honed to a Razor sharp edge. But I have not read anyone mentioning this.

I am wishing I had chose a more flat blade angle now with the results I have gotten lol. A re-profile of the 19 dps may be required is my thinking on this to get this blade any sharper. I have never seen a Razor made from anything that was really thick lol.

This has been a very interesting material, very time consuming as well. If I do re-profile the angle that will really be quite time consuming lol. Thanks again for your response and the info shared.

[Jeb]

Here my HIC is at 19 dps, part of the blade right by the finger choil never cleaned up with the hone so far, I think it will show in the pix.

I have messed with this Mule at 19 dps ever which way and yet it's not a Razor... it will shave hair, slice paper all easy enough, but it's not like the humpteens of other blades I have around here. Which is they all are like a Razor!!!

So, I started to re-profile this hard headed ol'e Mule to 16 dps this time. Heck I am still so uncertain about this being made from ceramic, I am afraid to take it to low of an angle, fear if it breaking and chipping or fracturing.

I have never had anything that was really nice and hard metal, that could not be really sharpened to Razor like edge. Been honing on this Mule all day, to re-profile it and start this Mule all over differently.

[Jeb]

While the re-profile from 19 dps to 16 is some really slow going I have been thinking more and more toward going for 15 dps, after all I like most of my knifes at 15 dps and they are all honed to a Razor right now with the exception of one that was used hard yesterday lol.

[Jeb]

Ok, I got three other new knives in last week, so I got off this HIC Mule for a minute to re-profile them all at 15 dps.

Two were M4 steel and one was M398. So all this took a minute or two lol. There is one thing I have seen, the HIC Mule has smoothed the diamond grit right off 4 hones already and I still lack a long way from having this Mule profiled to 15 dps...

Didn't notice it till I switch from the HIC to the M4 steel and I could tell instantly that 4 of my nice diamond hones were done far lol. The HIC Mule is one more hard devil...

So, now I am back on the HIC Mule and I guess I am going to be buying more diamond hones to get this Mule profiled... all I can say is wow.

There needs to be something that is a powered, wet wheel for this HIC, least to get the angle profiled close. I am sure they make one, I just don't have one lol, they are probably big money for a good one that you most certainly going to need for the HIC. I have never messed with the ceramic blades and only have the one.

I got all kinds of grinders, sanders and hones for steel. Never did I expect something like this beast of a blade. I will get this blade profiled to 15 dps though, even if I have to buy a pallet of hones to get there lol. Heck, I have sharpened more than just a little tungsten and it's hard to mess with, but it's nothing like the HIC...

The edge I got looks good so far, it's just taking forever and using up a lot of good diamond hones to get there.

[Fireman]

I’m wondering if a paper wheel on a bench grinder that was impregnated with fine diamond powder would make these hair popping sharp. Question is what to use as the binder, wax?