Native 3.5?

[GaTChE]

Any one else like to see a larger Native? Probably wishful thinking, but the chief is larger than I like for a folder. Pm2 and Shaman are nice, but like the native format, maybe in magnacut or cruwear.

[Mushroom]

It's been asked for a handful of times in the past. I wouldn't be surprised if we see it happen within the next few years.

[mikey177]

Some of the more recent threads on this topic are Native Scout? and Mid-sized Native?.

With the release of the Bodacious, I feel that this fills my need for a mid-sized Native, but I would also be happy if a backlock version becomes a reality.

[kobold]

Yes, absolutely. Those are great steels, but would buy one (or three) in any steel at this point.

[apollo]

Perhaps finally a return of the Spyderco C24 Blackhawk? (The predessesor of the native)

[Wartstein]

Totally yes on a 3.5" Native.

It has turned out to be pretty fruitless to discuss if this would be "mid sized" or whatever, in any case and in my humble opinion there is an obvious gap between Lil Native and Native 5 on the one end and the Chief on the other - just that 3.5" option.

I assume that is a very popular size category for EDC on the one hand (could be wrong of course) and then there are those areas with stupid laws where people want to carry a larger folder in that great Native family layout, but the Chief is (legally) to big.

Can´t find the mock ups of 3.5 Natives folks did allready right now, but on top of the points above this (fictional) version just looks so cool and perfectly proportioned! (Just like in my eyes the Endela - also 3.5" size range - is the best proportioned looking option in the Endura family).

Last but not least and differently to the Native 5 the finger choil would make a lot more sense (to me!) in an a bit larger version: While on the shorter Native 5 handle for my hand size the choil just takes up too much handle space, eats up cutting edge AND forces me to use just one grip (choked up) in the end anyway, on a 3.5" Native a choil would offer two good grip options.

Though this is nothing more than a layman gut feeling, I am somehow convinced that a 3.5" Native would be a success and sell good enough!

[Wartstein]

..
With the release of the Bodacious, I feel that this fills my need for a mid-sized Native, but I would also be happy if a backlock version becomes a reality.

It might for you, and of course I respect that and can see why... but to me Bodacious and a 3.5" Native are (would be...) very different folders:

- As you said anyway: Comp.lock vs backlock. To me personally a huge difference, and I happen to much prefer the latter.
- Weight: The Bodacious is a comparably rather "heavy" and "heavily built" knife (with all the pros and cons this can have).
The Native, especially the LW, is a pretty light, linerless option. Bodacious weighs 4.4 oz, the even larger Chief LW only 3.1 oz...(a 3.5" Native LW would most likely come in under 3 oz).
- Also, the Native platform looks to be slimmer / less tall both in blade and handle...?

[Ramonade]

Perhaps finally a return of the Spyderco C24 Blackhawk? (The predessesor of the native)

Oh yeah, that would be cool ! PE and G10 in a screw construction so that I can make myself some custom scales ahah

[Evil D]

I wouldn't be against it but it is a bit of a Goldilocks size. The Chief really isn't as big as it seems once it's in your hand and it carries basically the exact same as a Native as long as you don't have shallow pockets.



Actually now that I'm looking again, I probably would pass on this idea because it would put me into the Para 2 zone where the handle is too short behind the choil so my only comfortable grip option is on the choil, so there's little chance I'd choose the middle size over the Chief. The Chief has one of the best behind the choil grips of all time, feels fantastic in my hand.

[Netherend]

I wouldn't be against it but it is a bit of a Goldilocks size. The Chief really isn't as big as it seems once it's in your hand and it carries basically the exact same as a Native as long as you don't have shallow pockets.



Actually now that I'm looking again, I probably would pass on this idea because it would put me into the Para 2 zone where the handle is too short behind the choil so my only comfortable grip option is on the choil, so there's little chance I'd choose the middle size over the Chief. The Chief has one of the best behind the choil grips of all time, feels fantastic in my hand.

I agree 100% on the grip behind the choil being the best on the chief and It really does not feel as big as it looks. When folded it sits slim due to the flat spine and it feels like a much smaller knife.

I was surprised at how similar the chief felt in hand compared to the native 5. The handle really is an elongated N5 handle which i found to be useful. The chief ‘s long handle is provides a perfect reach for keeping my hands clear of thorns when pruning my berry bushes.

The chief has a cutting edge that is very close to the Bodacious in size however the choil and long handle make it feel much longer.

I would buy a pm2 sized N5 if it had a long handle like the chief.

I wonder if chaparral xl can fill that spot

[vivi]

you like the para 2 but the chief is too big?

there's only 0.2 of an inch difference between the two though, lol.

people act like the Chief is some monster of a knife but its the same length as an Endura, and nearly everyone here is comfortable pocketing one of those.

Not saying a chief-in-training is a bad idea for a new model....but it cracks me up how many times I've seen people act like the Chief is a Tatanka.

[kobold]

Can´t find the mock ups of 3.5 Natives folks did allready right now, but on top of the points above this (fictional) version just looks so cool and perfectly proportioned! (Just like in my eyes the Endela - also 3.5" size range - is the best proportioned looking option in the Endura family).

this one? i see some fibonacci-like harmony in this 'missing link'.

[GaTChE]

Some of the more recent threads on this topic are Native Scout? and Mid-sized Native?.

With the release of the Bodacious, I feel that this fills my need for a mid-sized Native, but I would also be happy if a backlock version becomes a reality.

Thanks. I missed those. Haven't put my hands on a bodacious. Sounds like I should.

[Red Leader]

Can´t find the mock ups of 3.5 Natives folks did allready right now, but on top of the points above this (fictional) version just looks so cool and perfectly proportioned! (Just like in my eyes the Endela - also 3.5" size range - is the best proportioned looking option in the Endura family).

this one? i see some fibonacci-like harmony in this 'missing link'.

I've seen this picture before, and I agree it would be insanely good. I also think a Native 3.5 with a button compression lock could end up being one of the best potential Spydercos ever made. Perfect size, perfect ergos, perfect blade shape, perfect lock setup, AND made in USA. And Magnamax. I couldn't possible imagine a world in which it wouldn't be a top seller. I would buy several.

[Wartstein]

this one? i see some fibonacci-like harmony in this 'missing link'.

Yes, this one, thanks!

Practically speaking I just have to prefer the Chief (just cause I like more edge to work with), but that 3.5" mock up just looks so cool and perfectly proportioned!

Pretty much the "Endela-effect":
While rationally the Endura just has to be better for me (more edge, still not too long when closed, my personal perfect regular size for EDC) the Endela has something about it with its perfect proportions that make me grab it over the Endura whenever the shorter edge does not matter...

[Wartstein]

you like the para 2 but the chief is too big?

there's only 0.2 of an inch difference between the two though, lol.

people act like the Chief is some monster of a knife but its the same length as an Endura, and nearly everyone here is comfortable pocketing one of those.

Not saying a chief-in-training is a bad idea for a new model....but it cracks me up how many times I've seen people act like the Chief is a Tatanka.

I have to agree.

I prefer the Endura/Pac Salt 2 over the Chief for other reasons, but in closed length they are really, really close, in "real life" practically no difference.

(Though the Chief IS/feels a bit longer in pocket - a tad longer handle plus clip sits a bit further back on the handle. Still not really a huge difference to the Endura carry though).

The Chief is clearly more efficient than the Endura concerning how much BLADE(length) it can pack into that handle.

[Wartstein]

......
Actually now that I'm looking again, I probably would pass on this idea because it would put me into the Para 2 zone where the handle is too short behind the choil so my only comfortable grip option is on the choil.....

David, I know what you mean, this is exactly my "issue" with Para 3 and Native 5, and PM2 / Manix 2 handles are on the verge of being too short for me behind the choil.

But: Despite I know you have wider palms than me, I'd be not so sure when it comes to a 3 5" Native... I actually figure its long, flat handle end with NO "beak/rearguard" would leave enough space for your hand behind the choil...

The following is just a rough estimation but still could help:

The Endela has a 3.41" blade, so a bit shorter than 3.5", and it also has that "grip area maximizing", no "beak" handle end.

- Yes, the Native family is more efficient in how much blade length it packs into the handle (so the handle can be shorter for a given blade length) - and the Endelas blade does not fill all of the handle...

- Still a 3.5" Native handle should be roughly in the same ballpark as a 3 .41" Endela handle... now look how much additional grip area (yellow line) the Endela offers over for example a Manix... if a 3 5" Native is close to that it could work for you..??

[Evil D]

It's just a redundancy problem. If I never had the choice of a Chief then I'd probably be excited for an idea like this. For the smaller models like a Native or Sage or Chaparral there's really only one grip option, or at least that's how I see the designs, I see the finger choil as an essential/intended part of the full grip design. I think this even despite having larger hands, I just think this was the intention of the design.

When we look at the middle sized models like a Para 2 and Manix 2 or even a Shaman, I feel like they tried to give two separate grip options (on the choil and behind it) and this is where hand size becomes an issue. There's plenty of people who don't have an issue with this at all, the popularity of these two models proves that, but this is where if I have the choice I'm going to choose the larger model.

I own all three of the models I mentioned so it's not like this is a deal breaker, but again options are the issue here. This is one of those ideas I'd never vote against because this is a ME problem and most average size handed people would probably love this.

And besides all that, I think the Shaman is essentially the knife that this would end up being. It's a bit more overbuilt than a true medium sized Native would be, but I think the size is spot on. I like the grip behind the choil on a Shaman way more than a Para 2 but again if I could get a Shaman XL with just an inch more blade and handle length then I'd be even happier.

And to sum all of this up, this is why the Bodacious is superior to all of these knives

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I have been asking Uncle sal this for years :)

Supposedly a Byrd Scimitar may be on the way.

[vivi]

It's just a redundancy problem. If I never had the choice of a Chief then I'd probably be excited for an idea like this. For the smaller models like a Native or Sage or Chaparral there's really only one grip option, or at least that's how I see the designs, I see the finger choil as an essential/intended part of the full grip design. I think this even despite having larger hands, I just think this was the intention of the design.

When we look at the middle sized models like a Para 2 and Manix 2 or even a Shaman, I feel like they tried to give two separate grip options (on the choil and behind it) and this is where hand size becomes an issue. There's plenty of people who don't have an issue with this at all, the popularity of these two models proves that, but this is where if I have the choice I'm going to choose the larger model.

I own all three of the models I mentioned so it's not like this is a deal breaker, but again options are the issue here. This is one of those ideas I'd never vote against because this is a ME problem and most average size handed people would probably love this.

And besides all that, I think the Shaman is essentially the knife that this would end up being. It's a bit more overbuilt than a true medium sized Native would be, but I think the size is spot on. I like the grip behind the choil on a Shaman way more than a Para 2 but again if I could get a Shaman XL with just an inch more blade and handle length then I'd be even happier.

And to sum all of this up, this is why the Bodacious is superior to all of these knives

A lot of your points are why I moved on from the mini manix, the para 2, shaman, etc.

on those models, can I fit all of my fingers on the handle behind the index choil?

Yes, but there was always some kind of issue.

On the mini manix it always felt like my pinky was about to slip off the handle, since there was only room for about half my pinky to grip the knife.

On the Para 2 my hand always felt cramped gripped behind the choil.

On the shaman, the choil is massive so I didn't like how far away my hand was placed from the edge behind the choil, and it felt blade heavy.

Caly 3 used to be a favorite, so I bought a 3.5 hoping I could grip it behind the choil. Could I? Yep. But it felt bad, like the knife wasn't meant to be used that way. The full sized calypso fits me so much better behind the choil, and feels designed to be used that way.

"sheeple" horror stories on BF had me convinced of a dumb mindset early on in my higher end knife collecting. That I needed to carry the smallest knife possible I could get a full grip on.

I say it was a dumb mindset because it was based on experiences I never had then, and never have these days.

I don't know if its the culture where others live, or if they're making a big show of flicking open their knives or what, but I can carry an XL Voyager to work or out and about with no issues. I've used a Military at an elementary school to cut up an orange. A fully serrated Pacific Salt at a 1 year olds bday party to cut balloon strings. I've carried XL Voyagers and Recons to different jobs, no issues.

So I got rid of the dumb mindset and adopted a more practical one. Carry whatever works the best for my needs, as long as its legal.

Hasn't been an issue yet, and carrying the longer knives gives me a more ergonomic grip and more efficient blade. Longer edges cut better than shorter ones for most tasks.

I tried pairing big knives with little knives but my life never presented me with a reason to use, say, a UKPK over a Military day to day. So I dropped them from my rotation.