H-1 steel

[Hogflats]

How is Spyderco's serrated H-1 steel compared to the new H-2 steel?

[sal]

Hi Hogflats,

Welcome to our forum.

I don't think you will notice any difference between the two.

sal

[jwesley235]

How is Spyderco's serrated H-1 steel compared to the new H-2 steel?

All I know is that H1 is a wear-hardened steel, which means the serrated teeth get stronger and harder with use; H2 steel doesn't have this property, it's already as hard as it's going to get.

[twinboysdad]

How is Spyderco's serrated H-1 steel compared to the new H-2 steel?

All I know is that H1 is a wear-hardened steel, which means the serrated teeth get stronger and harder with use; H2 steel doesn't have this property, it's already as hard as it's going to get.

Can you cite your source? Not saying you are wrong. In my understanding the only difference between the two is the name

[hobbyist]

How is Spyderco's serrated H-1 steel compared to the new H-2 steel?

All I know is that H1 is a wear-hardened steel, which means the serrated teeth get stronger and harder with use; H2 steel doesn't have this property, it's already as hard as it's going to get.

[Manixguy@1994]

How is Spyderco's serrated H-1 steel compared to the new H-2 steel?

All I know is that H1 is a wear-hardened steel, which means the serrated teeth get stronger and harder with use; H2 steel doesn't have this property, it's already as hard as it's going to get.

Can you cite your source? Not saying you are wrong. In my understanding the only difference between the two is the name

I am curious of this comment myself , I have never read or comments pertaining to H2 SE blades . MG2

[James Y]

I would imagine that Spyderco has tested H2 under the same conditions as it did H1, and found them (including the serrated edges) to be pretty much identical. Yes? No?

Jim

[jwesley235]

Can you cite your source? Not saying you are wrong. In my understanding the only difference between the two is the name

I found this from AG Russel talking about H1 steel: "** from Spyderco "We don't publish Rockwell but I can tell you that it is in the high 50's , low 60's and all of our micro hardness testing shows that it is harder at the edge than at the spine because it is differentially work hardened so in a serrated version, the performance is much higher than a plain edged version.""

While work-hardening by use is disputed, the difference is more than just a name change.

Knife Steel Nerds has a chemistry comparison:

Element by Element Analysis

The elemental changes between H1 and H2 which we can discuss:

• Carbon – reduced from 0.15 to 0.09 percent: Carbon in steel promotes the formation of carbides and increases the steel’s vulnerability to corrosion. Reducing the amount of carbon in H-2 further reduces this risk and therefore helps enhance its corrosion resistance.
  
  Chromium – reduced from 14.00-16.00 to 13.73 percent: Chromium in solution in a steel increases its corrosion resistance by allowing it to form a protective chromium oxide layer on the surface. The slight reduction of chromium was possible due to the reduction in carbon, but still ensures a high amount of chromium in solution.
  
  Copper – 0.17 percent added: The addition of copper in austenitic steel enhances its precipitation hardening properties and increases its corrosion resistance, especially in seawater environments and against exposure to sulfuric acid.
  
  Manganese – reduced from 2.00 to 0.32 percent: Manganese improves the hot-working properties of steel and increases its strength, toughness and hardenability. Like nickel, it is also an austenite-forming element. The reduction in manganese is largely balanced by H-2’s increase in nickel and its substantial increase in molybdenum.
  
  Molybdenum – increased from 0.50-1.50 to 2.24 percent: Molybdenum increases a steel’s strength, hardness, hardenability, and toughness. It also improves its machinability and resistance to corrosion. When added to chromium-nickel austenitic steels, molybdenum improves resistance to pitting and crevice corrosion, particularly in chlorides and environments containing sulfur—like seawater.
  
  Nickel – increased from 6.00-8.00 to 8.25 percent: Nickel’s ability to form austenite gives austenitic steels great toughness and strength. It also greatly improves resistance to oxidation and corrosion.
  Nitrogen – reduced from 0.10 to 0.06 percent: Like nickel, nitrogen is an austenite-forming element. It increases the austenite stability of stainless steel, improves its yield strength, and enhances its resistance to pitting corrosion. The adjustment to H-2’s nitrogen content is balanced by its increase in nickel content.
  
  Phosphorous – reduced from 0.04 to 0.027 percent: Phosphorus improves machinability and increases the strength of austenitic steels; however, it can also have a detrimental effect on corrosion resistance. Reducing H-2’s phosphorous content helps enhance its corrosion-resistant qualities.
  
  Silicon – reduced from 3.00-4.50 to 2.63 percent: Silicon is the most common alloying element in steel. It helps purify the iron ore during the smelting process by deoxidizing it and removing impurities. The fine-tuning of the volume of this element is based on the needs of the smelting process.
  
  Sulfur – reduced from 0.03 to 0.001 percent: Small amounts of sulfur improve a steel’s machinability; however, like phosphorous, it is detrimental to corrosion resistance. Reducing H-2’s sulfur content further contributes to its corrosion-resistant properties.

[jwesley235]

I set myself up for that one, huh?

[Larrin]

Can you cite your source? Not saying you are wrong. In my understanding the only difference between the two is the name

I found this from AG Russel talking about H1 steel: "** from Spyderco "We don't publish Rockwell but I can tell you that it is in the high 50's , low 60's and all of our micro hardness testing shows that it is harder at the edge than at the spine because it is differentially work hardened so in a serrated version, the performance is much higher than a plain edged version.""

While work-hardening by use is disputed, the difference is more than just a name change.

Knife Steel Nerds has a chemistry comparison:

Element by Element Analysis

The elemental changes between H1 and H2 which we can discuss:

• Carbon – reduced from 0.15 to 0.09 percent: Carbon in steel promotes the formation of carbides and increases the steel’s vulnerability to corrosion. Reducing the amount of carbon in H-2 further reduces this risk and therefore helps enhance its corrosion resistance.
  
  Chromium – reduced from 14.00-16.00 to 13.73 percent: Chromium in solution in a steel increases its corrosion resistance by allowing it to form a protective chromium oxide layer on the surface. The slight reduction of chromium was possible due to the reduction in carbon, but still ensures a high amount of chromium in solution.
  
  Copper – 0.17 percent added: The addition of copper in austenitic steel enhances its precipitation hardening properties and increases its corrosion resistance, especially in seawater environments and against exposure to sulfuric acid.
  
  Manganese – reduced from 2.00 to 0.32 percent: Manganese improves the hot-working properties of steel and increases its strength, toughness and hardenability. Like nickel, it is also an austenite-forming element. The reduction in manganese is largely balanced by H-2’s increase in nickel and its substantial increase in molybdenum.
  
  Molybdenum – increased from 0.50-1.50 to 2.24 percent: Molybdenum increases a steel’s strength, hardness, hardenability, and toughness. It also improves its machinability and resistance to corrosion. When added to chromium-nickel austenitic steels, molybdenum improves resistance to pitting and crevice corrosion, particularly in chlorides and environments containing sulfur—like seawater.
  
  Nickel – increased from 6.00-8.00 to 8.25 percent: Nickel’s ability to form austenite gives austenitic steels great toughness and strength. It also greatly improves resistance to oxidation and corrosion.
  Nitrogen – reduced from 0.10 to 0.06 percent: Like nickel, nitrogen is an austenite-forming element. It increases the austenite stability of stainless steel, improves its yield strength, and enhances its resistance to pitting corrosion. The adjustment to H-2’s nitrogen content is balanced by its increase in nickel content.
  
  Phosphorous – reduced from 0.04 to 0.027 percent: Phosphorus improves machinability and increases the strength of austenitic steels; however, it can also have a detrimental effect on corrosion resistance. Reducing H-2’s phosphorous content helps enhance its corrosion-resistant qualities.
  
  Silicon – reduced from 3.00-4.50 to 2.63 percent: Silicon is the most common alloying element in steel. It helps purify the iron ore during the smelting process by deoxidizing it and removing impurities. The fine-tuning of the volume of this element is based on the needs of the smelting process.
  
  Sulfur – reduced from 0.03 to 0.001 percent: Small amounts of sulfur improve a steel’s machinability; however, like phosphorous, it is detrimental to corrosion resistance. Reducing H-2’s sulfur content further contributes to its corrosion-resistant properties.

Why did you delete the part that says, “The article then has a breakdown of the…” in between the first and second lines? That elemental analysis is a quote from Spyderco’s article not my words. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2022/06/06/ ... he-sequel/

[jwesley235]

Why did you delete the part that says, “The article then has a breakdown of the…” in between the first and second lines? That elemental analysis is a quote from Spyderco’s article not my words. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2022/06/06/ ... he-sequel/

Apologies, Dr. Thomas, I didn't think that part was relevant but I should have made it more obvious you were commenting on another article.

[Bill1170]

I would imagine that Spyderco has tested H2 under the same conditions as it did H1, and found them (including the serrated edges) to be pretty much identical. Yes? No?

Jim

Yes. This is what Sal said, and he has to know more than we do.

[wrdwrght]

How is Spyderco's serrated H-1 steel compared to the new H-2 steel?

All I know is that H1 is a wear-hardened steel, which means the serrated teeth get stronger and harder with use; H2 steel doesn't have this property, it's already as hard as it's going to get.

The reason for SE H1’s well-known greater (than PE H1) hardness has not yet been scientifically explained, so far as I can determine.

Work-hardening, long suggested here as the reason, is a just a working hypothesis (waiting to be subjected to falsifying tests). This hypothesis is based on the fact that SE requires more grinding than PE.

Whatever the reason, I’d imagine it’s the same for H2, whose chemistry is only slightly different than H1’s.

[JoviAl]

How is Spyderco's serrated H-1 steel compared to the new H-2 steel?

Hi Hogflats,
Firstly welcome to the forum.

In answer to your question, for all intents and purposes I have found it to be pretty much indistinguishable apart from the number 2 on the side of the blade. For reference I use my SE H1 and H2 knives for arboricultural work in the tropics all day Mon to Fri, making on average 700-2000 cuts a day. They are both excellent. I choose to use H1/H2 over other steels for its outstanding corrosion resistance, toughness (I do a lot of hacking into woody materials) and fantastic sharpening response. I have LC200N and Magnacut knives as well, but H1/2 has proven to be the best balance of properties for my needs.

I would still buy a Magnacut Jumpmaster though…

[zhyla]

All I know is that H1 is a wear-hardened steel,

I think you mean a work-hardened steel.

which means the serrated teeth get stronger and harder with use

This is false.

H2 steel doesn't have this property, it's already as hard as it's going to get.

This is not a factual statement afaik. H2 is a work hardening steel.

I think this is an urban legend at this point. I believe Spyderco has stated higher hardnesses coming out of their manufacturing processes, which has not been conclusively verified. It may or may not be consistently true. But it has been continually misconstrued as this “wear hardening” magic steel. Combined with the statement (I think from Eric?) that H1 SE outperforms some other steel, there’s a lot of room for lay people to misconstrue reality.

[sal]

As mentioned, it's still a bit of a mystery as to the serrated edge performance. On /CATRA tests, the serrated edges seem to stay sharper longer than plain edges, and in the case of H1 / H2, the difference is greater than normal blade steels that are heat treated.

sal

[vivi]

It's not an urban legend - it's just something we don't have a good explanation for (yet).

SE H1 vs PE H1....there's a much wider difference in edge holding than the different edge types should account for.

I've tested SE 8Cr vs PE 8Cr.....less difference than H1 in either edge.

Same with S30V. 420hc. VG10. 1095. D2. etc. etc.

I had always hoped Larrin would explore H1's properties more, especially comparing different edge types,but with it being phased out I doubt that'll ever happen.

It's a special material, that's for sure. Known for being rust proof, but it's also one of the toughest knife steels I've ever used.

Can't comment on how it compares to H2 because I haven't bought any H2 knives yet. But I'm holding on to my H1 forever.

[jwesley235]

This is false.

Citation needed.

[zhyla]

It's not an urban legend - it's just something we don't have a good explanation for (yet).

I was referring to the “wear hardening” bit. Sure, it performs well in SE retention tests, afaik that’s a real thing.

[elena86]

I am a huge fan of H1. From my real life experience H1 is a beast in spyderedge and in plain edge it keeps a decent cutting edge for more than a decent amount of time, given that you know how to sharpen this exotic alloy. I disagree with those who look down on PE H1 pretending that it needs to be sharpened every other day. H1 is a special animal when it comes to sharpening. I am with Vivi on this. If I had to bring a knife with me for the doomsday the Jumpmaster2 would be my only choice. It waits in my bugout bag as I write these lines.