Syderco Subvert - very well made and impressive.

[vjb.knife1]

This is probably one of the most impressive Spydecos that I have owned. I liked it so much that I bought three of them, one orange standard model and two carbon fiber handled limited edition models. These are expensive knives but contrary to some of the other big name brand players these are worth it.
The retail on the standard Orange G-10 handle Subvert model number C239GPOR is $576 and the LE Carbon Fiber model number C239CFP is $600, but they can be had from several online dealers for $345 and $420 respectively. The orange one comes in a regular Spydie Box but the LE CF model is supplied in a Cordura Zippered Taco pouch with the Spyder Logo embroidered onto it.

This is the description from the Spyderco website for the LE version.

“Designed by Israeli goldsmith and custom knifemaker Nati Amor, the Subvert faithfully translates his handcrafted “Sabotage” folder into a premium-quality production knife. This elite Sprint Run™ expression of it further elevates the design by rendering its dramatically styled, full-flat-ground blade in CPM 20CV. This highly wear resistant, powder metallurgy stainless steel contains a high volume of vanadium carbides and the highest amount of chromium of any vanadium-rich stainless steel currently available, giving it a remarkable combination of edge retention, corrosion resistance, and toughness. Equally unique, the beautifully contoured scales of this knife are precision machined from solid carbon fiber. All other features are consistent with the standard version of the knife, including ball-bearing pivot washers, thick, skeletonized titanium liners, a stout LinerLock mechanism, and a custom pocket clip configured for right-side, tip-up carry.”

These are the specifications from the Spyderco Website.

Overall Length - 9.30" (236mm)
Blade Length - 4.12" (105mm)
Steel - CPM 20CV
Closed Length - 5.18" (132mm)
Edge Length - 4.04" (103mm)
Weight - 5.9oz (167g)
Blade Thickness - 0.157" (4.0mm)
Handle - Carbon Fiber/Titanium (LE) or orange G-10 standard version
Clip Position - Right
Tip Carry Position - Tip-Up
Lock Type - Liner Lock
Grind - Full-Flat
Origin - Taiwan

Just reading the description and specs is pretty impressive, but wait until you see this thing. I normally carry a Hinderer XM-24 or a R.J. Martin Devastator and I still think this knife is very heavy duty and impressive to handle. The blade shape reminds me of the old Gerber Flayer model Skinning knife and the belly of the blade is almost 1.25" deep! Spyderco’s dimensions are conservative, this is a big knife and it carry’s big and looks big in the hand, but it is comfortable to hold due to the handle shape and taper. In your pocket it is thick, the butt end of the handle is about an inch thick including the clip. I tried to show the dimensions with the included ruler.

The blade is smooth to deploy, with it’s ball bearing pivot, and it locks up extremely solid; just look at how thick the liner lockbar is! But, it is still easy to operate and the finishing on the lock allows easy disengagement.

Overall the fitup and finishing of the parts is perfect. The satin finish of the blade and the fine bead blast finish of the liners and pivot nut look great and are flawless.

If I missed describing any feature of this knife that you would like to know about let me know and I will try to elaborate on that for you. Or if you would like a picture at a different angle or of a part of the knife that I missed please ask and I will try to post another picture.

Anyway let’s get to the pictures:

[sal]

Hi Vjb.knife1,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

[vjb.knife1]

Hi Vjb.knife1,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

Thank you Sal. I have enjoyed your knives since the mid 1980's. Keep up the good work.

Regards, Vincent

[jwesley235]

The Orange Subvert was my first Spyderco. Like you, I ended up with one in orange and two in CF. They are great knives.

[Jeb]

Vjb,

Great write up and on two big knives I have honestly trolled around hard because of how big a knife they are.

I didn't think both of these knives had the 20CV steel, that is cool though. I thought the orange G10 was S30v but i could be wrong. The one question I have never known for sure is how thick is the grip on these?

They look pretty fat, but they are some very impressive looking knives you have there. These are some killer pix you have of these too. Pix of these in great detail I have wanted to see.

One area of these I have shy'd away from ever getting one is the liner lock on them. I have had two different knives, both different brands but both were the liner locks; that literally closed on my hand as I was really getting after cutting stuff. Neither of these were Spyderco 's

Needless to say I got rid of both of them and I felt really lucky not to have lost fingers when this happened. Specially when you keep your knife as sharp as I do.

Started carrying after those two mishaps, an old Buck 110 model with the back lock for many years, they are a thicker knife, heavy weight too, but that's ok. I have wore out several of these over the years, but they are a big strong knife.

Another thing I have wondered is how are these knives without much of a point on the blade, to use? Sure I always have more than one knife on me, so if a quick point would be a must, I would be covered; just wonder how this blade design is to use as edc?

I do like how big these knives are though and as mentioned have trolled around both of these pretty hard to have never pulled the trigger on either. Thanks for sharing all this above...

[sal]

Hi Jwesley,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

[vjb.knife1]

Vjb,

Great write up and on two big knives I have honestly trolled around hard because of how big a knife they are.

I didn't think both of these knives had the 20CV steel, that is cool though. I thought the orange G10 was S30v but i could be wrong. The one question I have never known for sure is how thick is the grip on these?

They look pretty fat, but they are some very impressive looking knives you have there. These are some killer pix you have of these too. Pix of these in great detail I have wanted to see.

One area of these I have shy'd away from ever getting one is the liner lock on them. I have had two different knives, both different brands but both were the liner locks; that literally closed on my hand as I was really getting after cutting stuff. Neither of these were Spyderco 's

Needless to say I got rid of both of them and I felt really lucky not to have lost fingers when this happened. Specially when you keep your knife as sharp as I do.

Started carrying after those two mishaps, an old Buck 110 model with the back lock for many years, they are a thicker knife, heavy weight too, but that's ok. I have wore out several of these over the years, but they are a big strong knife.

Another thing I have wondered is how are these knives without much of a point on the blade, to use? Sure I always have more than one knife on me, so if a quick point would be a must, I would be covered; just wonder how this blade design is to use as edc?

I do like how big these knives are though and as mentioned have trolled around both of these pretty hard to have never pulled the trigger on either. Thanks for sharing all this above...

Hi Jeb,

You are correct about the steel of the knives Carbon fiber handle is CPM20CV and Orange G10 is CPMS30V.

As I said in my review the handle is thick; the butt end of the handle is about an inch thick including the clip.

As for the safety of liner locks all I can say is that I have used many different brands and styles of knives with liner and frame locks and I have never had the lock fail on any of them.

Concerning the point on the blade it is a little different in shape but it is still very sharp and has a point capable of penetrating material. I have not carried the Subvert very much as I still carry quite a few others at this time.

Thanks for the questions. Even though I have not carried or used the Subvert much I would have no reservations doing so. The design is a little different, but I find it appealing and I believe it is useful, and the quality and build of it is excellent.

Regards, Vincent

[Wartstein]

.....
One area of these I have shy'd away from ever getting one is the liner lock on them. I have had two different knives, both different brands but both were the liner locks; that literally closed on my hand as I was really getting after cutting stuff. Neither of these were Spyderco 's
...
Another thing I have wondered is how are these knives without much of a point on the blade, to use? Sure I always have more than one knife on me, so if a quick point would be a must, I would be covered; just wonder how this blade design is to use as edc?
...

- I think you should try a good (Spyderco) linerlock... they can be more than strong enough, and if you get a linerlock Spydie with choil (like a Milli 1) your fingers in a way are actually safer than with any other lock, cause you can´t accidentally activate the lock without at the same time having one finger in a position where it will inevitably get hit by the choil (and not the edge...)

- For the "point - point" :

This is what I wonder too. I really like the Subvert design, and I am even not a fan of really fine (too fragile) tips, but this one does not look functional and pointy enough for things I tend to do with EDC folders.. at least though the Subvert tip probably is not as "high" as it looks due to the overall curve / negative blade angle of the design (I like rather "low" tips on EDC folders, so that when piercing for example a box, the wrist has not to be bend in a weird, unnatural angle).
Related to the above: I also don´t know how I´d make good use of the very steep belly towards the tip, other than perhaps in scraping or some kitchen tasks...

[Jeb]

Looking at your pix after reading what you said about the knife being 1" wide back at the clip, I notice the with of this knife is tapered toward the blade pivot bolt.
I didn't see that when I first read your thread you tacked up here.

Looks like it might be 3/4" at the pivot bolt, that about right? Interesting design with how the back is open too. Wasn't aware of that either.

Heck your two here are the first really good pix I have seen of these lol. Thanks for the info shared man. I going to be trolling hard on these now more than I already have lol...

[Jesla]

Liner locks… *groan*… the only liner lock I carry these days is an old Buck Tempest limited edition, it has a manual thumb lock that engages open or closed. Liner locks are dangerous and not left hand friendly, nor do they have a strong closing bias. Two pieces of metal meeting at an angle is a major weakness and prone to failure.

The subverts blade shape(not pointy) is a major turn-off for me, the pry bar I carry in my wallet has much better point.

[Manixguy@1994]

I have always liked the design but as a lefty it is a total no go for me . I really like the blade design. Nice post and pictures ! MG2

[vjb.knife1]

So, after writing this and answering questions I decided to carry the CF handle Subvert for a while and see how I like it. I traded out my XM-24 for this beast. A couple of you had questions on the handle thickness so here are the numbers. At the tail end the handle is about 0.805" (just the CF part) and including the pocket clip it is 0.982, and at the pivot end it is 0.690.
As for the point ability to penetrate material. Here is a picture of it going through 21 pages of thick paper in a catalog; it was very easy to push through it without having to adjust to an uncomfortable or unnatural grip. I believe the design is a bit more suited to slashing and it was very easy to slash through 21 or more pages of the same catalog.

[Danke]

I really like mine except I do wish the scales would taper to flush at the bottom. It's just a bit too chunky down there.

[Giygas]

Awesome thread!

I definitely think it's one of Spydercos coolest models, but mine doesn't get much pocket time because of how thick it is behind the edge, and how the handle thins out between the middle body screw and the pivot. I know some people like it, but it makes it super uncomfortable in my hand after any real use.

Heres some pics showing it compared to the Mamba and my K2 that I added CF scales to:

[zhyla]

mine doesn't get much pocket time because of how thick it is behind the edge

Well… what exactly is this knife for then? Nobody is carrying a $350 knife for hard use. I don’t get it.

It’s a cool blade shape. Seems like it would be useful if it were a more normal price and wasn’t quite so thick for thickness’ sake.

[SpeedHoles]

mine doesn't get much pocket time because of how thick it is behind the edge

Well… what exactly is this knife for then? Nobody is carrying a $350 knife for hard use. I don’t get it.

It’s a cool blade shape. Seems like it would be useful if it were a more normal price and wasn’t quite so thick for thickness’ sake.

The designer for this collaboration is a jeweler turned knife maker, who apparently likes flippers and wide blades specifically. I guess there's videos of him using it to chop palm branches.

[Jeb]

The biggest difference between this knife and what your calling normal price ranged knives is the fact this knife has one caged ball bearing race on each side of the blade and the liners and blade tang is machined to accommodate those bearings.

Big difference when compared to a phosphorus bronze thrust washer setup knife. It doesn't take very much machine work and ball bearings to make this much of a price difference.

The top pic is a Manix 2 with the phosphorus bronze washer setup. The bottom is a Smock with the caged bearings.

[vjb.knife1]

[/quote]

Well… what exactly is this knife for then? Nobody is carrying a $350 knife for hard use. I don’t get it.

It’s a cool blade shape. Seems like it would be useful if it were a more normal price and wasn’t quite so thick for thickness’ sake.
[/quote]
Nobody carries a $350 Knife for hard use??? I carry a CRK Sebenza all the time and it gets used for everything. A lot of people carry knives more expensive than that for general use.

[zhyla]

The biggest difference between this knife and what your calling normal price ranged knives is the fact this knife has one caged ball bearing race on each side of the blade and the liners and blade tang is machined to accommodate those bearings.

Captive pivot bearings are pretty much industry standard on anything over $50. They aren’t common on Spyderco knives for some reason. But no, pivot bearings are not a distinguishing mark of an expensive knife. 10 years ago it was less common on cheaper knives but they are everywhere now.

[Wartstein]

Well… what exactly is this knife for then? Nobody is carrying a $350 knife for hard use. I don’t get it.
...

Along the lines of what @vjb.knife said above:
I don't think "nobody" does that.

For me personally it would even be rather the opposite:
Why spend a lot of money on a knife and then NOT carry, test and use it in any possible task (also "hard use" ones)?