Para 3 LW 15V - 3 disappointments, or unrealistic expectations?

[Mage7]

Spyderco has a CQI program, right? How are they supposed to know what they need to improve on if nobody complains about anything?

Also, this notion that users should show appreciation and be grateful for Spyderco as if we're getting far more value than what we're paying for is absurd. I show them I have confidence in their ability to produce a great product by spending much more money on them than their competitors, but that confidence is also guaranteed and warrantied by Spyderco. What I tend to hear when people accuse certain complaints as being frivolous is just a lot of excuses about why Spyderco didn't fulfill their end of the transaction.

For a company that claims to always put performance ahead of aesthetics, I don't find the flaw at the heel acceptable. It shouldn't matter that I can knock that down on my bench stone, as much it matters that I have to. Those little uneven portions are really pesky and can make touching up the existing edge more difficult, regardless of skill level--though I'm sure all the sharpening experts will tell me all about why that should be their problem. I my opinion, if you're going to sell knives that aren't actually finished, you better not sell them for finished prices.

But it's important to remember that Spyderco themselves aren't even the ones trying to pedal in excuses. I am pretty sure Spyderco would agree this should have been a factory second, but they simply didn't catch it. As far as I'm concerned, all the people apologizing and defending Spyderco aren't doing themselves or the company any favors. If you want their products to stand above the rest, then they need to speak for themselves without the help of a choir of diehard fans making excuses about it.

If Spyderco wants to make sure they keep improving and meeting the standards they aspire to meet, I would say it's more in their interest to make sure users feel comfortable letting them know when there's something they can improve upon. On the other hand, I really don't see what benefit it offers them for a vanguard of their defenders to shoot the messenger.

[bobnikon]

Collectors keeping a knife pristine and users beating a knife daily pay the bills for Spyderco equally. One side may get more street cred, but both side's opinions should matter.
I'm in the middle, a light user.

Your point, while excellent is actually understated.

The collectors enable Spyderco to bring new models and steels to the hardcore users. If the outrageous, sell-out in 5 minute, sprint and exclusive runs didn't happen, the sprint and exclusives likely wouldn't happen. If there weren't countless thousands (hundreds of thousands) of spydercos sitting pristine in boxes, the company wouldn't have the funds to run the R&D to bring out these exotic metals and experimental models.

I won't win over the those who cast stones at those who expect a knife to be excellent in BOTH FORM AND FUNCTION, but if it wasn't for the collectors, you would have MUCH less to choose from.

Just facts. Everyone would do well to try and appreciate people's reason for partaking in this hobby. Nobody needs more than one fixed and one folder. Grandpa did just fine that way. So don't judge others, just because your use case differs.

Start casting those stones...

Cheers
Erik

[gimibala]

Spyderco has a CQI program, right? How are they supposed to know what they need to improve on if nobody complains about anything?

Also, this notion that users should show appreciation and be grateful for Spyderco as if we're getting far more value than what we're paying for is absurd. I show them I have confidence in their ability to produce a great product by spending much more money on them than their competitors, but that confidence is also guaranteed and warrantied by Spyderco. What I tend to hear when people accuse certain complaints as being frivolous is just a lot of excuses about why Spyderco didn't fulfill their end of the transaction.

For a company that claims to always put performance ahead of aesthetics, I don't find the flaw at the heel acceptable. It shouldn't matter that I can knock that down on my bench stone, as much it matters that I have to. Those little uneven portions are really pesky and can make touching up the existing edge more difficult, regardless of skill level--though I'm sure all the sharpening experts will tell me all about why that should be their problem. I my opinion, if you're going to sell knives that aren't actually finished, you better not sell them for finished prices.

But it's important to remember that Spyderco themselves aren't even the ones trying to pedal in excuses. I am pretty sure Spyderco would agree this should have been a factory second, but they simply didn't catch it. As far as I'm concerned, all the people apologizing and defending Spyderco aren't doing themselves or the company any favors. If you want their products to stand above the rest, then they need to speak for themselves without the help of a choir of diehard fans making excuses about it.

If Spyderco wants to make sure they keep improving and meeting the standards they aspire to meet, I would say it's more in their interest to make sure users feel comfortable letting them know when there's something they can improve upon. On the other hand, I really don't see what benefit it offers them for a vanguard of their defenders to shoot the messenger.

Agreed!

[Flash]

Although it’s far from the worst blade from Spyderco I’ve seen, I don’t know why the OP is being shot down for posting their concerns over the knife he received.


Just because Spyderco gives us X steel with X heat treatment that we should just hand over our money, shut up and willingly accept poor quality control. No chance. Customers shouldn’t have to apologise for receiving a less than satisfactory knife after paying good money for it.

This is a knife thats the best part of $200 and if Spyderco dont know where the line is, these minor QC issues will start creeping in more often until we’ve reached a stage where it’s normal to receive a unsatisfactory knife.

[Peter1960]

A completely different thought:

Wouldn't it be better if the Spyderco catalogs and website also included pictures of imperfect models? That would give you an idea of ​​what you're getting for your money after you've bought it. Not just perfect views of knives that were perhaps chosen specifically for the pictures or perfected afterwards with software. That just creates unrealistic expectations (I know what I'm talking about, having collected Spyderco knives for 20 years and using some of them).

I mean that seriously... at least a little. Ooops, did I actually write it like that?

[KeepCalm&Carrion]

A completely different thought:

Wouldn't it be better if the Spyderco catalogs and website also included pictures of imperfect models? That would give you an idea of ​​what you're getting for your money after you've bought it. Not just perfect views of knives that were perhaps chosen specifically for the pictures or perfected afterwards with software. That just creates unrealistic expectations (I know what I'm talking about, having collected Spyderco knives for 20 years and using some of them).

I mean that seriously... at least a little. Ooops, did I actually write it like that?

I don't think anyone expects a knife that's truly perfect. This is a case of someone being slightly disappointed by receiving a knife with an obvious QC flaw.

Also, some may assume this is just a cosmetic thing (hashtag pocket-jewelery-problems), but it's not difficult for me to imagine the belt lines having an impact on user experience. For example, what if this user likes to place their index finger on top of the spine near the tip, and those perpendicular belt lines, fine as they are, create an ever-so-slightly different texture on that section of the spine? Same goes for the belt lines that wholly surround the forward portion of the Spyderhole. And another point: What if the belt line striations have an impact on how material interacts with the blade as the material moves toward the spine?

Just thinking out loud here.

[Red Leader]

I don't think anyone expects a knife that's truly perfect. This is a case of someone being slightly disappointed by receiving a knife with an obvious QC flaw.

Also, some may assume this is just a cosmetic thing (hashtag pocket-jewelery-problems), but it's not difficult for me to imagine the belt lines having an impact on user experience. For example, what if this user likes to place their index finger on top of the spine near the tip, and those perpendicular belt lines, fine as they are, create an ever-so-slightly different texture on that section of the spine? Same goes for the belt lines that wholly surround the forward portion of the Spyderhole. And another point: What if the belt line striations have an impact on how material interacts with the blade as the material moves toward the spine?

Just thinking out loud here.

User experience may be more than just cutting performance for some - the way something feels, looks, etc. If each time you looked at it, you were disappointed with the quality, then it is impacting the experience, albeit maybe not performance. 'Would I show my friends this one?' or 'would this one make others want to buy a Spyderco?' if the answers to those are in question, then I would say there is a problem.

I have a knife by Nic Groniger, it is a custom and is one of the best knives I've ever seen. I cannot find a single flaw on it and I look at it nearly every day. Cost less that many Spyderco models. I don't know another person that has ever heard of him, yet here is this near-perfect knife right in front of me. Anymore, I think excellence can be all around us. Granted, it is not a folder (which is at a massive disadvantage for QC), and being a one-off type of knife shop affords a relatively high level of attention. Yet I'm sure many hold Spyderco, as well as I do, to such high regard. It is a credit to Spyderco to be able to hold them capable of these high standards, to be able to say 'whoa, yeah that is not normal' versus 'yeah that's about what you get'.

I don't think OP would be in the wrong to return it for a better example, and in fact this one would probably be better as a second, sort of acknowledging that it is of the 2nd level quality and not necessarily representative of what you should receive. This one got out the door and I'm sure that happens from time to time. Eric was very candid about that with this run in particular in the Blade Show 2025 interview w/ Knife Center, and so they are well aware of it and I believe they do care about it.

[Deadboxhero]

Well, I'm sorry to hear about the disappointments.

I'm happy to hear that the action and tightness is satisfactory.

I would be excited to hear about your experiences with the 15V if you decide to use and keep it.

Thanks for sharing with us.

No doubt I’m keeping (and using) it! I had zero intention of returning the knife because wanting to experience your treatment of 15V is the only reason why I bought it (which doesn’t mean I’m not surprised when it arrives looking very different to my other Para 3 and wanted to know if it’s normal or not).

I am, in fact, so interested in trying out your treatment of the steel, I broke my self-imposed rule of not buying any more triangle/leaf shaped blades! I would buy them because I’m excited to try different steels offered by Spyderco, but truth be told, when I’m actually using my knives, I’ve found myself, more often than not, preferring narrower shaped blades (the shape of the Bugout’s and Sebenza’s blade). It took a whole lot of dicipline for me not get the Rex121 Sage, but you have broken me!

Thank you for taking the time to share with us.

Looking forward to what you think about the edge retention, heat treatment and sharpening.

There's a few threads in here that talk about that, but it'll be nice to get your opinion added to the others.

Again, thanks.

-shawn

[Nestor]

I think that the OP is fully justified with his questions regarding the lacking QC on that, particular knife. Good luck!

[z1r]

Without a doubt, the G10 model is "nicer". That said, I like the FRN Para 3 better for two reasons: 1) Weight, it really is LW compared to G10. 2) The deep carry clip. Hence my walking out of the SFO Saturday with a LW 15V Para 3 in my pocket versus the G10 version. After a long weekend of use, I'm happy with the performance. Now I can give my LW Rex 45 variant a break from time to time.

Random question - did they let you look at several and pick one you wanted, or just got you a box and you got to examine it once purchased?

I might be heading there as early as tomorrow, and I'm curious about picking up something in either 15V or K390, and it might be nice to look it over.

The salesguy, whose name I forget, was super helpful. They keep all the inventory in the back, so he searched through several to find me what he felt was best. As he told me, it was perfectly centered, good grind, and just a tad of what he called lock stick. The knife wasn't nearly as "flickable" as the display model. He said the stick would works its way out quickly. And it did less thana week later. So, while you can't rummage through every box, the advantage of buying at teh SFO is if they hand you a box, and you don't like what's inside, you hand it back and they bring you another. Plus, it is so much fun to see/handle all their different models.

[JNewell]

I hesitate to mention this because this is only the second Spyderco knife I've purchased that had any obvious issues in more than 30 years, and I don't want anyone (especially BBB) to feel like anyone should feel badly or think anything needs to be done about this.

My Para3 LW arrived, I noticed a couple of weeks later, with the stop pin screw on one side not screwed down into the stop pin completely (in other words, standing proud from the scales), bent slightly above the stop pin, and with the Torx recess stripped out. It was pretty well secured with some 242 TA.

I could have/should have sent it back to Spyderco to be fixed, but this wasn't that sort of problem, in my opinion. I got it out by slightly enlarging the hole that should have been a T6 recess and gently, with full support for the stop pin and scales, driving a hardened T7 bit into the drilled-out recess. That's how I discovered that those stop pin screws are in fact the same thread and head size as the clip screws on the Paramilitary 2, Military 2 and some other folders. Al things considered, it was easy to fix this and doing so myself saved a lot of time - all around, no biggie.

[sal]

Thanx for the input. As mentioned, we really need to know if there is a problem. How else can we make changes?

sal

[Red Leader]

Without a doubt, the G10 model is "nicer". That said, I like the FRN Para 3 better for two reasons: 1) Weight, it really is LW compared to G10. 2) The deep carry clip. Hence my walking out of the SFO Saturday with a LW 15V Para 3 in my pocket versus the G10 version. After a long weekend of use, I'm happy with the performance. Now I can give my LW Rex 45 variant a break from time to time.

Random question - did they let you look at several and pick one you wanted, or just got you a box and you got to examine it once purchased?

I might be heading there as early as tomorrow, and I'm curious about picking up something in either 15V or K390, and it might be nice to look it over.

The salesguy, whose name I forget, was super helpful. They keep all the inventory in the back, so he searched through several to find me what he felt was best. As he told me, it was perfectly centered, good grind, and just a tad of what he called lock stick. The knife wasn't nearly as "flickable" as the display model. He said the stick would works its way out quickly. And it did less thana week later. So, while you can't rummage through every box, the advantage of buying at teh SFO is if they hand you a box, and you don't like what's inside, you hand it back and they bring you another. Plus, it is so much fun to see/handle all their different models.

Thanks for relaying your experience. That's great that they will work w/ you until you are satisfied. Yep handled the 15V Para 3 lightweight. Great feeling knife, lovely looking blade. My son really wants one. We will go to the seconds sale and see if he can find one there after saving up his allowance.

I handled the K390 Lil' Temperance 3 and its a good knife. I'm used to Cold Steel for my 'hard use' knives and while Spyderco doesn't really occupy this territory, I like that the LT3LW straddles the fence here, and in a great steel. I'm on the fence on a Manix 2 in 15V...gonna be real hard to resist that one. Thanks again!

[WilliamMunny]

I hesitate to mention this because this is only the second Spyderco knife I've purchased that had any obvious issues in more than 30 years, and I don't want anyone (especially BBB) to feel like anyone should feel badly or think anything needs to be done about this.

My Para3 LW arrived, I noticed a couple of weeks later, with the stop pin screw on one side not screwed down into the stop pin completely (in other words, standing proud from the scales), bent slightly above the stop pin, and with the Torx recess stripped out. It was pretty well secured with some 242 TA.

I could have/should have sent it back to Spyderco to be fixed, but this wasn't that sort of problem, in my opinion. I got it out by slightly enlarging the hole that should have been a T6 recess and gently, with full support for the stop pin and scales, driving a hardened T7 bit into the drilled-out recess. That's how I discovered that those stop pin screws are in fact the same thread and head size as the clip screws on the Paramilitary 2, Military 2 and some other folders. Al things considered, it was easy to fix this and doing so myself saved a lot of time - all around, no biggie.

Feel the same way, had some very bad lock stick on mine. Even Shawn reach out to try and help and I sent him a video of how bad it was. It feels like a fine line of providing helpful feedback and complaining. I eventually exchanged it and have a very good version now.

Very grateful for all the support from Spyderco and Shawn, it why I only buy Spyderco.

First Spyderco I have had that gave me an issue in 30+ years.

[JNewell]

So...here's a little anecdote about lock stick that's pretty wild and definitely went against the grain for me. Some folder with a compression lock that I purchased recently - might have been a Shaman (what a great knife!) - had an annoyingly sticky lock. I don't think it was the 15V P3LW because I wouldn't be eager to do this (next paragraph) with a compression lock that if I recall correctly only supports the stop pin in metal on one side.

I am not someone who abuses his tools, but I thought: I wonder what happens if I snap this thing open as hard as I can a few times? I would generally say that a super-flick probably falls into the "abuse" category, but given the way the lock surfaces engage in a compression lock, I am thinking that if any lock can take that and basically ignore the episode, it would be the compression lock. So I opened the blade just a little past the detent and gave it half a dozen or so really hard snaps from the wrist. That knife was a different knife after that little exercise.

Maybe there was a sharp edge on the tab that locks the blade, or maybe who knows what else. No idea. But completely solved that one knife's stickiness -stat-. OTOH, for context, I tried that one time with a Benchmade folder with a sticky Axis lock and just about had to use tools to pry the lock bar off the tang of that blade, so this is not necessarily a good idea. I would never try it with a liner lock or frame lock.

For the record, I'm not an engineer and don't pretend to be one on the internet, I'm not Sal or Eric, and I'm not recommending that anyone do this with their own knives, even if the knife does have the mighty compression lock. Your own risk, may void your warranty, and all that.

[cabfrank]

Michael Janich has told us he draws and opens his Compression Lock knives aggressively often, and they have tolerated it very well. I certainly believe him. He even mentioned how on one of his Yojimbos, the G-10 scales actually wore more than the lock. That is solid testimony.

[JNewell]

And a solid lock! I think the lock itself is about as close to bomb-proof as you'll find on a folder and IMHO one of the easiest to use, though that's an opinion rather than a fact. Wearing out the scales first more or less proves the point.

[Pacu0420]

Thanx for the input. As mentioned, we really need to know if there is a problem. How else can we make changes?

sal

Here's another reason I like Spyderco so much. I can't think of another company that the founder takes such an interest in hearing from their customers. In this day and age, it's a breath of fresh air.

Thank you Sal!

[Rob-F]

Visible grind lines on a $200 knife is ridiculous. I would exchange that. That should be sold as B stock.

Spyderco needs to be careful. When prices go up and quality goes down it erodes the enthusiast market pretty quick.

Agreed. I wouldn't like receiving an expensive knife that doesn't please me. Spyderco should be able to do better. OP, send it back. That's the only way to let Spyderco know They've done bad work.

[pkennethv]

Visible grind lines on a $200 knife is ridiculous. I would exchange that. That should be sold as B stock.

Agreed. I wouldn't like receiving an expensive knife that doesn't please me. Spyderco should be able to do better. OP, send it back. That's the only way to let Spyderco know They've done bad work.

I don't think Spyderco do replacements for Sprint runs, so at most I'd receive is credit to buy something else from the Spyderco web store. Contrary to what many in this thread seem to assume, I do actually want to use/experience 3V (and not just collect it or posts pics of it on social media - something which I've literally never done with any knife, btw), so if my choice is to keep a B stock knife that I paid full price for, or to not get to experience a BBB 3V knife, my choice would be the former.