Para 3 LW 15V - 3 disappointments, or unrealistic expectations?

[Evil D]

The finish is pretty consistent with other 15V's I've seen. I'd use it but if you're unhappy nobody can tell you not to be, you can always return it.

[Skar]

None of that would bother me personally.
I’ve had a few (all tool steels) with those lines on the blade. I saw them and shrugged went to get a patina going.

[The Mastiff]

We always ask for new and high performing steels to try out at the least expensive prices they can keep them down to and we still have people expecting pocket jewelry. It has got to be frustrating to the Spyderco crew to perform miracles and have people then complain about flaws that have nothing to do with safety and performance.

I got mine in a couple weeks ago. The edge is fantastic. It cuts and slices better than all but my best and most time consuming edges. The steel is a bonified exotic that not even custom makers would touch before BBB and Spyderco worked together to find a way to bring it to us at what has to be an almost non existent markup.

I tried for 4 years to give away a sample sheet of 15V to dozens of custom makers and no one wanted to touch it because of the vanadium content and the amount of grinding belts and time they would need to complete a finished knife out of this steel.

Sean and Sal ignore the conventional wisdom and break through barriers to bring out another product no one else would at an amazing price and..... " I hate it, it has a spot!"

Dude, maybe Spyderco exotic steel knives are not for you.

[TkoK83Spy]

I agree with @mastiff 100%!!

Feels like this place has been slowly turning into another Spyderco Customer Service line for all the folks crying about not being able to flick their knives, not dropping shut, bad centering, "uneven" bevels, etc. All MINOR issues that don't effect the use of the knife. The Instagram clout people have been infiltrating and it seems our actual users with great feedback have been drifting away. Sad to see!

[Ex-Phys]

I purchased my Para 3 LW 15v as a functional tool, not to collect. I have never purchased a wrench and examined it for imperfections. If it opens, closes, locks, and cuts, it’s good with me. As soon as I use it and sharpen it, it’s no long new anyway. Spyderco provides us with amazing performance for affordable prices. I think I paid $158 for my P3 LW. That’s an incredible value.

[pkennethv]

...people expecting pocket jewelry.
...people then complain about flaws that have nothing to do with safety and performance.
..." I hate it, it has a spot!"

-I don’t hate it, I literally said in my OP that I am keeping the knife and do not want a refund

-I literally asked the people on this forum to tell me and inform me if this is normal. That means I have not made up my mind or arrived at a conclusion of what is acceptable or not (otherwise, I wouldn't be asking). How are you misconstruing that as a complaint? How could I have more clearly expressed that I am not set on imposing my standards on any company, person, or knife, and am, in fact, asking to be told what the standard is?

-I’m not expecting pocket jewelry from an FRN knife from the most affordable way I can possibly get exceptionally well treated exotic steel. I use my Sebenza; I don’t even treat that like safe queen piece of jewelry. There are knives that I would feel bad about scratching up, but that threshold is somewhere along the lines of Benchmade gold class, and not an FRN Spyderco or even Sebenza.


-This point is not directed at The Mastiff, but broadly to a number of replies in this thread:
Yes, I am going to use this knife, like I use my Demko and Chris Reeve knives. Yes, it will get sharpened. No, I am not comparing the finishing standard of an FRN Spyderco compared to Demko or Chris Reeve knives. I am, in fact, comparing the finishing standard of this Spyderco knife to my other Spyderco knives, and have noticed the grind/finish falls short of my other Spyderco knives. I wanted to know if I had simply gotten lucky with my other 3 Spyderco knives with perfect-to-me grinds, and it would seem the answer is yes, I did get lucky with my other ones, and this one still falls within acceptable tolerances/standards for a Spyderco knife at this price point. And that is okay with me. I just wanted to know.

[w3tnz]

I think what you have is about par for the course, of the knife and Spyderco’s utilitarian lineup in general. Expectations of aesthetic excellence don’t always align with the design brief, or commercial realities and complexities of manufacturing.

[KeepCalm&Carrion]

It's nice to see so many giving OP reasonable, kind responses, even if they themselves would happily keep this sample. That said, some posts seem dismissive and others are borderline disrespectful, which is really too bad.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being disappointed with receiving this sample. If anything, it's a sign of respect to Spyderco, the Golden factory, and (with all due respect to our non-American friends!) American manufacturing capabilities to expect better.

[nerdlock]

Sean and Sal ignore the conventional wisdom and break through barriers to bring out another product no one else would at an amazing price and..... " I hate it, it has a spot!"

It wasn't just a spot, it was belt grind marks, spanning almost the entire length of the blade, starting from about 1/3rd-1/4th from the middle of the blade to the spine, on what is supposed to be a full stonewashed finish blade. So the OP should just ignore this blemish and keep quiet, and totally forget about quality control?

By that logic, even if dealers sell knives with no logo, no finish, let's all just keep quiet and buy it - as long as it has an edge and it cuts, right? I mean, those defects don't really contribute to cutting performance now don't they?

I didn't see OP say anything about "hating" it. Hate and disappointment are two different things.

Dude, maybe Spyderco exotic steel knives are not for you.

Maybe next time, Spyderco should just put a warning label on all exotic steel knives stating that these are only for super hardcore edge junkies; casual Spyderco collectors, pocket jewelry afis and quality control advocates, stay away and don't even think about purchasing this. It doesn't matter how many Spydercos you've purchased through the years, if you're not an edge junkie, stay away.

Even better, maybe dealers should have a checklist before you can buy an "exotic" steel knife, like maybe you should have invested $$$$ amount in CBN/diamond stones or sharpening jigs, have xxx years of experience in sharpening steels harder than S30V, can reliably treetop hair, etc.

I think that would be good business to gatekeep the majority of Spyderco fans who are just casual collectors and not hardcore edge junkies...That would show them casuals out the door, eh? Sure would help sell out the 1000-2000/whatever production numbers these 15Vs have been run, eliminating all casual collectors and focusing only on the hardcore edge junkies... I'm sure all that lost revenue won't count into the production of another "exotic" super steel request from the steel junkies in these forums...

Sorry, I digress. Not trying to start a fight here, but I think these needs to be said. We are all fans here, we all love and appreciate what Spyderco and BBB has done with these Sprint runs. I have several 15Vs and they've been great. But if it means shutting down any talk about quality control issues and gatekeeping, then my apologies, but that is just ridiculous.

If we can't even discuss QC issues here, then let it be stated in the forum rules that all discussions about QC are banned to prevent future threads like these.

[nathanours]

We always ask for new and high performing steels to try out at the least expensive prices they can keep them down to and we still have people expecting pocket jewelry. It has got to be frustrating to the Spyderco crew to perform miracles and have people then complain about flaws that have nothing to do with safety and performance.

I got mine in a couple weeks ago. The edge is fantastic. It cuts and slices better than all but my best and most time consuming edges. The steel is a bonified exotic that not even custom makers would touch before BBB and Spyderco worked together to find a way to bring it to us at what has to be an almost non existent markup.

I tried for 4 years to give away a sample sheet of 15V to dozens of custom makers and no one wanted to touch it because of the vanadium content and the amount of grinding belts and time they would need to complete a finished knife out of this steel.

Sean and Sal ignore the conventional wisdom and break through barriers to bring out another product no one else would at an amazing price and..... " I hate it, it has a spot!"

Dude, maybe Spyderco exotic steel knives are not for you.

It is not unreasonable to expect a newly purchased knife to exhibit a high standard of finishing. The strides Spyderco has made in offering a diverse array of premium steel options are, of course, appreciated by us steel junkies - this was never in question by the OP. However, it is disappointing to see such exceptional designs undermined by subpar finishing—a standard that, in some cases, falls short even of a budget model like the Chinese Tenacious. While you may prioritize cost over craftsmanship, the same cannot be said for all of us.

[Vamais]

We always ask for new and high performing steels to try out at the least expensive prices they can keep them down to and we still have people expecting pocket jewelry. It has got to be frustrating to the Spyderco crew to perform miracles and have people then complain about flaws that have nothing to do with safety and performance.

I got mine in a couple weeks ago. The edge is fantastic. It cuts and slices better than all but my best and most time consuming edges. The steel is a bonified exotic that not even custom makers would touch before BBB and Spyderco worked together to find a way to bring it to us at what has to be an almost non existent markup.

I tried for 4 years to give away a sample sheet of 15V to dozens of custom makers and no one wanted to touch it because of the vanadium content and the amount of grinding belts and time they would need to complete a finished knife out of this steel.

Sean and Sal ignore the conventional wisdom and break through barriers to bring out another product no one else would at an amazing price and..... " I hate it, it has a spot!"

Dude, maybe Spyderco exotic steel knives are not for you.

Well said. I think we need to appreciate the effort that Spyderco goes to to offer us so many flavors of steel and to be on the cutting edge of materials.

Personally, I think that I would prefer if Spyderco offered knives unassembled with blades unsharpened if they did it for a lower price (like, they sell the model in both a "finished" version and a "kit" version). That may be a faster/cheaper way to get new steels to the end user. Maybe interested people would need to sign up for a "Kit Buyer's" program or whatever, or Spyderco would just sell the kit versions without any warranty on assembly.

[TkoK83Spy]

We always ask for new and high performing steels to try out at the least expensive prices they can keep them down to and we still have people expecting pocket jewelry. It has got to be frustrating to the Spyderco crew to perform miracles and have people then complain about flaws that have nothing to do with safety and performance.

I got mine in a couple weeks ago. The edge is fantastic. It cuts and slices better than all but my best and most time consuming edges. The steel is a bonified exotic that not even custom makers would touch before BBB and Spyderco worked together to find a way to bring it to us at what has to be an almost non existent markup.

I tried for 4 years to give away a sample sheet of 15V to dozens of custom makers and no one wanted to touch it because of the vanadium content and the amount of grinding belts and time they would need to complete a finished knife out of this steel.

Sean and Sal ignore the conventional wisdom and break through barriers to bring out another product no one else would at an amazing price and..... " I hate it, it has a spot!"

Dude, maybe Spyderco exotic steel knives are not for you.

Well said. I think we need to appreciate the effort that Spyderco goes to to offer us so many flavors of steel and to be on the cutting edge of materials.

Personally, I think that I would prefer if Spyderco offered knives unassembled with blades unsharpened if they did it for a lower price (like, they sell the model in both a "finished" version and a "kit" version). That may be a faster/cheaper way to get new steels to the end user. Maybe interested people would need to sign up for a "Kit Buyer's" program or whatever, or Spyderco would just sell the kit versions without any warranty on assembly.

But how does one go about flicking an unassembled knife, or worry about centering!?! Oh the horror!!

[nerdlock]

That may be a faster/cheaper way to get new steels to the end user.

It's called the Mule Team program.

[cabfrank]

I don't think there are enough antacids in the world for Sal and Eric to start a kit program.

[Scandi Grind]

I think it is important to realize that not all of us buy knives with the same use in mind. Some are looking for knives that will do hard work and suffer blemishes in short order anyway, so asthetic finish isn't that important. Others are adding to a large rotated collection where many knives will and are intended to stay in very good looking condition, so having something with a high level of finish is part of the point of getting it. What it "should" be has to be balanced by Spyderco based on what the average buyer wants, out of thousands of people that each want something different. I seem to hear complaints about QC and prices about as often as the other, but usually for one you will have to give up the other, or go for a knife made with cheaper materials. The fact of the matter is that none of us will get exactly what we want, so we have to decide what compromises we are willing to make when we purchase a knife.

In the case of 15V, it is much harder to produce, and it has only been around for so long, so there are more risks of something turning out imperfect. There are also less of them, but that is the nature of introducing a new super steel to market. If it were me, I don't buy knives to keep them pretty, I just use them and don't worry if they get blemished in the process. That knife would be fine with me. But if looks are a concern, that is something that I couldn't answer for the OP. Obviously it is a disappointment when you know it could have been better, but there is also a reason you can only get this steel from Spyderco right now. I imagine this isn't a super easy decision to make, but it is very personal so I can't really give much input there.

[cabfrank]

Collectors keeping a knife pristine and users beating a knife daily pay the bills for Spyderco equally. One side may get more street cred, but both side's opinions should matter.
I'm in the middle, a light user.

[nathanours]

I understand that producing knives in steels like 15V is a more complex and labor-intensive process compared to something like S30V. However, the issues raised by the OP are unrelated to the inherent difficulty of working with this steel. A more precise hand during edge grinding or a bit more time spent in the tumbling process could have easily addressed these problems. Alternatively, stricter quality control measures would have prevented them from reaching the end user.

It’s also worth noting that not all knives from this production run suffer from these issues. Many purchasers have reported receiving flawless examples.

For instance, I own a factory second Sage in Rex121 with a perfectly ground and finished blade, free of any apparent flaws. This factory second surpasses the OP’s factory first in terms of quality by a pretty large margin.

[z1r]

I don't think there are enough antacids in the world for Sal and Eric to start a kit program.

Yeah, I can only imagine the number of complaints that arise due to the assembler's skillz or lack thereof!

I know it is disappointing when one gets a product that doesn't live up to expectations, especially if there is an actual flaw. That said, despite best efforts, everyone lets a product that doesn't meet their standards slip by. What distinguishes a good company from a bad is how that company addresses and resolves the problem. Like many here, I own way too many Spydercos! But that is due in large part to the overall quality, ergonomics, steel choices, and value. Yes, Spyderco knives are not inexpensive, but, for the most part, neither are they expensive. I personally feel that, on the whole, they offer a lot of value for what you pay. There aren't many other brands that consistently offer the same bang for your buck! Over the years, I've gotten one or two "bad" examples, but I've never been let down by Spyderco's efforts to resolve the issue. The combination of value and customer service, just keep me coming back.

[GonzoRider]

I agree with @mastiff 100%!!

Feels like this place has been slowly turning into another Spyderco Customer Service line for all the folks crying about not being able to flick their knives, not dropping shut, bad centering, "uneven" bevels, etc. All MINOR issues that don't effect the use of the knife. The Instagram clout people have been infiltrating and it seems our actual users with great feedback have been drifting away. Sad to see!

People like you don't make this place any better. I don't see you complain much about knives but you sure do bring negative vibes in many other ways. Feel free not to throw your 2 cents into every thread or post you don't like.

P.S. I dig your Alex Terrible avatar pic

[nerdlock]

Collectors keeping a knife pristine and users beating a knife daily pay the bills for Spyderco equally. One side may get more street cred, but both side's opinions should matter.
I'm in the middle, a light user.

Agreed 100%.

This is probably one of the most reasonable and sane statements I've seen so far regarding this issue here.