My tastes have changed...

[Studiousworkman]

For years all I cared about collecting was what was cool or what I liked. While that hasn't entirely changed, my tastes and opinions have shifted drastically over years of experiencing and carrying all types of production and custom knives.

While I have sold the majority of my collection, I still focus on quality and what works for me over quantity.

I have become more fond of closed back or full length back-spacer designs over pillar construction or open back designs. Not that I don't own a few open back designed knives, but the closed back designs are much more comfortable in actual use.

One can fantasize about what has the best ergonomics but until you start using something, that's when said particular product reveals it's inherent flaws.

Open back designs (unless properly chamfered and contoured - and even then it's not as good or ideal) pinch the palm of your hand when handling and applying under real world use. It creates serious hand fatigue. Why do you think screwdrivers, power tools, hammers, chisels, commercial box cutters/razors and other tools have such incredible ergonomics? Because when using that tool day in and day out your hand will not wear down or become unusable due to thoughtless ergonomics. With those regular tools that you find in your hardware store, there really isn't any such thing as "hot spots"; as there shouldn't be.

Steering wheels in automobiles are very comfortable. Why? It creates no hand or muscle issues during long drives.

Baseballs bats under extended use can't have a rigid edge, anywhere; or else players wouldn't use them. They'd have to develop something else.

The list goes on and on with things we use and/or encounter every day to which ergonomics plays a huge role, but we take it for granted because we don't think about them.

I understand more so now why lockbacks are still around. Some custom makers focus on creating a bulbous handles with half or full back-spacers because they understand the importance of filling out the hand in use.

Heat treatment, tempering and edge geometry are vitally important and necessary, but excellent ergonomics are crucial and monumental. This should be the primary focus with an uncompromising approach of the masses in the industry.

[gdwtvb]

I agree and often lament that few spyderco knives have scales as thick as I would prefer. That said, a pocket knife by it's very definition is a compromise. One has to take the ergonomics and comfort of the knife when it's in your pocket into account. If I'm going to cut down some boxes in the garage, I grab the dewalt utility knife out of the toolbox and leave my pocketknife in my pocket. If I think I might need to cut down some boxes away from home, I just use whatever pocketknife I have on me because I'd hate to carry that thick utility knife around in my pocket.

Grizz

[riclaw]

One of the nice things about the PM2 and Para 3 is that there are aftermarket backspacers available. I've started using the G10 ones from Ripps Garage Tech because they make the handle more comfortable but don't add enough weight to change the balance.

[aicolainen]

a pocket knife by it's very definition is a compromise. One has to take the ergonomics and comfort of the knife when it's in your pocket into account. If I'm going to cut down some boxes in the garage, I grab the dewalt utility knife out of the toolbox and leave my pocketknife in my pocket. If I think I might need to cut down some boxes away from home, I just use whatever pocketknife I have on me because I'd hate to carry that thick utility knife around in my pocket.

Grizz

This is exactly it.
We all look for the perfect balance between carry comfort and having a knife that is sufficiently ergonomic and suitable for the work load and situation. It will be different for everyone, and I guess Spyderco has the sales numbers to determine approx. where this bell curve peaks. Which in turn dictates what they make and what we get to choose from.

For my own use, carry comfort is a very important factor. In a situation where I'm likely to only carry a folding knife I very rarely need to cut for prolonged periods, so for regular carry it's way more important to have a decent cutting tool readily available when I need one. And to facilitate that I choose knives that carries comfortably and discreetly.

This is really just the knife adaptation of a well known proverb from the photography world; "the best camera is the one you have with you".
This is also why we choose to carry inferior multi tools over the mentioned, dedicated hand tools with "incredible" ergonomics.

[RugerNurse]

I’ve started liking finger choils like on the Para 3 or Native 5. I don’t know who I am anymore

[Evil D]

When I open my tote full of knives and look at what I've bought in chronological order, it's very clear that my tastes are evolving or I'm maybe schizophrenic. So many models that held such high significance to me years ago now rarely get used. It's a similar situation if you're a concealed carry guy, we all have a drawer or box full of holsters we've used and upgraded over and over. On one hand it takes an open mind and really evaluating what you like and need, but on the other hand I also feel it's partly to blame on very specific preferences and finding models that are always just a little bit better or closer to my ideal knife.

[gdwtvb]

I also feel it's partly to blame on very specific preferences and finding models that are always just a little bit better or closer to my ideal knife.

Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner!

I cannot agree with this enough. The older and more experienced I get, the easier it is to immediately spot a 'feature' of a Knife that I had tried and found I didn't like, or conversely know of a feature that is a must have in any new knife I might purchase. If a knife doesn't have a lanyard hole, (Or a way to add a lanyard attachment point.) it's a hard pass for me.

Blade width is another. I need to be able to spread butter, peanut butter, mayo or whatever. As much as I am nostalgic for the slim clip points of my youth and the types of knives my dad and grandad carried, they just don't hold up to my demands that a pocket knife be a jack of all trades but perhaps master of none. Which is one of the reasons I first came to love Spyderco knives!

Grizz

[Evil D]

Yeah I don't mean to sound like I'm bragging but I've gotten good enough that I can look at a picture of a knife and if I at least know the dimensions of the handle length and all that, I know pretty well if I'm going to like it or not. I guess you could say I've learned a lot about ergonomics and what works for me. There are always surprises like the Ayoob and Ulize, both of those look super strange because they've pushed certain aspects of ergonomics to the extreme and those knives really need to be held and even used to appreciate.

[ejames13]

Interesting discussion.

Back before I'd ever heard of Spyderco, I carried Kershaws. The Leek was always my favorite, but I didn't know why. I tried many other knives after I lost my Leek, yet none of them felt quite right.

Years later, the Delica became my favorite Spyderco, though I still didn't know why. I finally figured out I have a strong preference for wharncliffe shaped blades once the Jazzlica was released. Now I rarely carry anything but wharncliffes or models with a negative blade angle.

[Blacksprucy]

I was thinking about this the other day myself, as my tastes have changed as well - or more accurately have returned full circle.

I first Spyderco I purchased in the late 1990s was a basic Delica still sporting the FRN pocket clip that I carried while in the Army. After that I had a real keeper (C120 Mariner Salt) that got absolutely thrashed during a career in wildland firefighting. Wish I had bought a spare or 2 while they were still available. Over the years since then, I have bought/sold a number of Spydercos mostly while venturing into the pursuit of "better" steels.

While that has been interesting, I have sort of lost interest in finding the "next best thing" and have sort of naturally settled in on a minimalist approach to the knife collection with designs that have been around for decades. 2x Dragonflys (one Salt, one Stainless Tattoo), 1x Pacific Salt (basically an Endura), 1x Stainless Delica (just ordered). Fixed blades are a few sub-$20 Moras.

VG10 is hardly a supersteel, but there is something nice about knowing you can restore a dull edge back to scary sharp in a about a minute with minimal effort, and minimal equipment.

[JoviAl]

I very much started off buying knives to use for work and thought I knew what I liked. After going on 7 years on the job my prior tastes have been thoroughly smashed on the altar of practicality.

I used to love a knife I could flick out, use, then drop shut (autos are illegal here), so a comp lock was top of my feature list. I spend a fair bit of time climbing up then eventually jumping back down out of trees, both for grafting and occasionally talking scared/stuck child down out of. Unfortunately every comp lock knife I owned (around 20 at my peak) would occasionally pop slightly open in my pocket, the impact of landing from a couple of meters up being enough of a jolt to defeat the closed detent. My favourite of all comp lock designs - the Carribean Leaf SE, was particularly bad for this and has caused me to retire it from general work use.

These days most of my work knives are either back lock or fixed SE blades, although the PE Cruwear Manix 2 XL gets its fair share of pocket time when I’m grafting fruit trees.

Size preferences have evolved too - I used to like a sub 3.5 inch blade for most tasks, but I’ve come to accept that old hot rodder’s adage of ‘there’s no replacement for displacement’ and all of my normal stable of work knives are larger than that now.

Steel wise, I aim for either super tough and stainless or Cruwear (which I believe to be secretly stainless). I used to chase maximum initial edge sharpness a bit, but I’ve come to realise that my sharpening technique has almost as much to do with a steel’s performance as the actual steel itself, and I’m much more bothered about a lasting working edge these days. Dual grit and coarse finishes are my norm nowadays, which can still be extremely sharp but take less time to do and last longer for what I use them for at work.

I’ve basically done a full U-turn on preferences for work, although I still love my S90V Yojumbo for home (although the Chap LW SE gets a lot of pocket time these days).

[Wartstein]

Double post

[Wartstein]

This is exactly it.
We all look for the perfect balance between carry comfort and having a knife that is sufficiently ergonomic and suitable for the work load and situation. It will be different for everyone, and I guess Spyderco has the sales numbers to determine approx. where this bell curve peaks. Which in turn dictates what they make and what we get to choose from.

For my own use, carry comfort is a very important factor. In a situation where I'm likely to only carry a folding knife I very rarely need to cut for prolonged periods, so for regular carry it's way more important to have a decent cutting tool readily available when I need one. And to facilitate that I choose knives that carries comfortably and discreetly.

This is really just the knife adaptation of a well known proverb from the photography world; "the best camera is the one you have with you".
This is also why we choose to carry inferior multi tools over the mentioned, dedicated hand tools with "incredible" ergonomics.

Quite some interesting stuff in this thread.

In your post to me it is the "carry comfort" point:

Three aspects in that line of thought:
Short closed package, but long edge; light in carry ;thinness in carry

1.) Actually one of the reasons why I often like a good edge (and not necessarily blade) to handle ratio.
I find a longer edge more versatile, but also a too long handle less nice in carry (for example: I do a lot of commuting on bike, wearing jeans, and a too long handle in rfp can get less ideal then).
So I want a comparably short handle, but still a long edge. One of the reasons why I prefer the Stretch 1 over the Stretch 2 (the former having more edge in a shorter package).

2.) Also light knives tend to carry better in certain types of garment (lighter, "floppier" pockets and the like)
Thus the Seki Salts are really nice in carry and I like them for that aspect, though admittedly in most scenarios I don´t really notice the difference to a linered Seki knife, but in some I still do.

3.) And, of course my advocation for a Chap XL- ish folder in part (!) has to do with that carry aspect: Very, very thin in carry (one should be easily able to pass the hand by the knife in pocket), and due to that thinness also still light, but would offer a good amount of edge in a supersolid package with still good ergos for most EDC tasks.

[Evil D]

Interesting discussion.

Back before I'd ever heard of Spyderco, I carried Kershaws. The Leek was always my favorite, but I didn't know why. I tried many other knives after I lost my Leek, yet none of them felt quite right.

Years later, the Delica became my favorite Spyderco, though I still didn't know why. I finally figured out I have a strong preference for wharncliffe shaped blades once the Jazzlica was released. Now I rarely carry anything but wharncliffes or models with a negative blade angle.

The Leek is still an All Star knife design. I used to have a local brick and mortar knife store and the owner carried one, and I asked him why since he could carry any knife he wanted and he just said "because it works".

[Wartstein]

.....
I have become more fond of closed back or full length back-spacer designs over pillar construction or open back designs. Not that I don't own a few open back designed knives, but the closed back designs are much more comfortable in actual use.
....
Open back designs (unless properly chamfered and contoured - and even then it's not as good or ideal) pinch the palm of your hand when handling and applying under real world use. It creates serious hand fatigue. Why do you think screwdrivers, power tools, hammers, chisels, commercial box cutters/razors and other tools have such incredible ergonomics?
.....
I understand more so now why lockbacks are still around. Some custom makers focus on creating a bulbous handles with half or full back-spacers because they understand the importance of filling out the hand in use.
.....

Another good point - and one of several aspects I often mention when explaining why I prefer backlock - (and CBBL) - over comp.lock (and in this capacity also linerlock) Spydies.

I would actually not agree that an open back in a majority of typical "real world use" folder tasks is an issue at all or "creates serious hand fatigue".
And to me EDC folders are more about a good carry and decent ergos, then about the best ergos ever, but a bulky and long carry,

BUT, that said: There ARE those tasks that require both "hard" and prolongued use, and there ergo considerations come into play indeed.
And anyway, if I can have better ergos (for harder use) without paying a price for it (by more weight or bulkier carry), why not take it? And a backlock or CBBL knife usually gives me that over a comp.lock and to a lesser degree (for me!) also linerlock knife.

Let´s say someone would create a comfortable fixed blade handle: No one in their right mind would start out by giving it an "open back" = a gap alongside the whole back of the handle, or a cutout right where the palm of the hand squeezes the handle, like a comp.lock has.

But of course rather the closed back and no real cutout that a backlock offers.

One of the reasons why I´d prefer a backlock in larger, more hard use and outdoorsy knives like Shaman, Caribbean, Military...

Also, there of course are more reasons "why lockbacks are still around": Very good for operating with gloves, very safe in pocket (strong closing bias), several good ways of closing them one handed (including fingers out of the blade path for those who need that)....

[40mm]

Interesting discussion.

Back before I'd ever heard of Spyderco, I carried Kershaws. The Leek was always my favorite, but I didn't know why. I tried many other knives after I lost my Leek, yet none of them felt quite right.


Years later, the Delica became my favorite Spyderco, though I still didn't know why. I finally figured out I have a strong preference for wharncliffe shaped blades once the Jazzlica was released. Now I rarely carry anything but wharncliffes or models with a negative blade angle.

The Leek is still an All Star knife design. I used to have a local brick and mortar knife store and the owner carried one, and I asked him why since he could carry any knife he wanted and he just said "because it works".

My local knife shop owner was friends with Warren Osborne. He always has an Osborne folder in his pocket. Last time I was in there he had a beat up 940 clipped to his jeans.

[aicolainen]

Three aspects in that line of thought:
Short closed package, but long edge; light in carry ;thinness in carry

You know me all to well :D

Late response, I know. We've had non stop powder alarms since Christmas. Massive snowfall. It's been truly amazing, but it also means I've had to prioritize more important and serious things like ski touring, snowboarding, cross country skiing.. oh and the (very frequent) occasional snow shoveling. No time for forums

Today someone upstairs decided we've been playing around in the snow long enough, so in a matter of hours we now have +8C, rain, strong winds and time for the forum again.