Boye dent

[zhyla]

For the life of me, I can't figure out how to grip the knife so the blade wobbles.

Open the knife, hold it with a hammer grip, squeeze your grip really tight, and on some knives you will be able to jiggle the blade with your other hand a tiny bit.

Has nothing to do with actual use of the knife.

[JoviAl]

I use back locks at work with and without Boye dents without issue when gripping hard in a hammer grip, but thinking about it I only engage full grip force when I’m pressing through the cut. As soon as I’m out the other side of the material (usually wood when I’m doing this) I relax my grip. If I’m going to be doing that a lot I just bring a fixed blade out to the job site.

[Doc Dan]

I have meaty hands. It is possible to grip the knife in such a manner that slightly lifts the lock bar if there is no dent, but this does not normally happen. I like the extra security the dent gives, even if not needed. Plus, and this is likely the most important, it looks cool. It is something beyond the norm for such locks.

[sal]

Thanx much for sharing your thoughts. Keep them coming. I wonder if a poll might help?

sal

[Wartstein]

I’m puzzled how anyone is getting any amount of force applied to the lock in a hammer grip. Reverse hammer grip I get.

For the life of me, I can't figure out how to grip the knife so the blade wobbles.

I have the habit of almost never putting my thumb on the spine / ramp, but rather on the flat/side of the blade or using a hammer grip in the first place (just how I always did it and am used to)

When utilizing that kind of grip, in harder use there definitely are two backlock Spydies where the blade gets a bit "loose and rattly" (though not even close to unlocked!)

- First one is the Siren (yes, the cqi -ed, newer version!): Hammergrip or thumb on the flat of the blade, a bit more squeezing like one would do when cutting into hard wood: Blade gets loose enough to rattle when I shake the knife even just a bit.
In real use it is not really an issue though.
Now I always thought this appeared cause the Siren has no boye dent and even thought of adding one myself...

- ... Enter the Goddard: In overall shape pretty similar to the Siren, but HAS a boye dent...and: Same thing. With "my" grip and when held tight: Blade gets a bit loose and rattles

- NOT a thing at all though with both models if I put my thumb on the spine, even when really "squeezing"

- And NO issue it all with any other backlock Spydie I own(ed) (mostly Endura family ones and Stretches ("regular" and XL), but also Chap, Native, Chief....)

- As the examples of Siren (no dent) and Goddard (dent) show: It might not only be the dent (or lack thereof) but perhaps rather the overall construction that contributes to that "blade gets loose in tight hammer grip" - thing - ?!

[Doc Dan]

I also like the Boye Dent because when closing the knife I just have to let my thumb fall into the divot instead of feeling for the optimum place to unlock the knife.

[RustyIron]

I prefer the UnDented Lock because the Spine Line is preserved. The design’s “flow” is undisturbed by bumps, dents, or other unsightly modifications.

My first Boye Dent knife offended me visually because the dent was off-center. Sal politely explained that while the dent may appear off-center, it’s actually in the center when the lock is depressed. This impressed me because what appears wrong is actually right. Now, every time I look at a Boye Dent, I appreciate the irony.

Despite this, I still prefer the Straight Back knife.

[Switchback]

I prefer the UnDented Lock because the Spine Line is preserved. The design’s “flow” is undisturbed by bumps, dents, or other unsightly modifications.

My first Boye Dent knife offended me visually because the dent was off-center. Sal politely explained that while the dent may appear off-center, it’s actually in the center when the lock is depressed. This impressed me because what appears wrong is actually right. Now, every time I look at a Boye Dent, I appreciate the irony.

Despite this, I still prefer the Straight Back knife.

I read that comment from Sal in one of the links posted in this thread. I tried it with my Delica 4 and sure enough, the dent is centered when depressed. Pretty impressive to me as well.

[vivi]

one thing to keep in mind for the "easier to add than remove" crowd, is not every lockback without a boye dent can have one added and still be functional

some models without boye dents require you to depress the lock release so far adding a dent wouldn't be practical.

[Bill1170]

I like the dent, but I'm also fine without it. I've never had any issues with my grip inadvertently unlocking a back lock either way.

The real advantage of the dent for me is it's a little quicker to locate the lock bar by feel, without having to look to unlock it. Not a big deal to me.

Jim

This is my experience as well. I like the dent.

[Fastidiotus]

I think my Rock/Leafjumpers are my only current backlocks without one. If I specifically move the knife around in my palm I can find a sweet spot where it's possible to lightly depress the bar in a hammer grip but it's not a grip position I'd ever actually use and it's not enough to cause the blade to unlock. I enjoy the lack of dent and jimping on the Jumpers but I'm clearly the odd one out since they were in production for such a short time.

[Roefisher]

For me, the Boye dent is a much classier looking knife. I have both and always think this every time I look at both together.

If there is any percentage whatsoever of a chance that a lock-back without the dent is easier opened, then it takes away any ideas of which way I'd lean. "If there is any doubt, there is no doubt."

I round off all my knife edges with MicroMesh and must admit than the dent looks and acts beautifully when given this attention.

Mark

[RazorSharp86]

Thanks for everyone’s feedback.

To clarify a few things,
I do not care that a knife looks “sleeker” without a dent. I want functionality, and a rattly knife makes for a real inferior ownership experience for ME.
To each their own. I understand that ppl can put aesthetics above other factors.

I also prefer the debt because it allows to easily find the lock to depress it, even if you’re blind, so to speak.

I also do not claim that this phenomenon unlocks the knife, but simply allows for a very annoying (to me) rattle, which detracts from the “quality build” feeling I’ve learned to associate with the Spyderco brand.
Important to note that in my experience, all the non-dented knives do not exhibit this phenomenon, while all the knives I’ve had that did not have a dent did.

In any case, I managed to figure out how to upload a video (thanks Danke, you’re literally the best!).
This cf/s90v Siren is my most solid backlock, btw. It isn’t a knife that exhibits the problem the most, but that’s what I had in pocket when I felt compelled to do the vid. This knife has zero blade play and lock rock. It is the most perfect example of a backlock I’ve had from Spyderco, ASIDE from the rattly issue when gripped hard.
Quality is subpar and volume is soso, but you can check it out below:

[RazorSharp86]

I’m puzzled how anyone is getting any amount of force applied to the lock in a hammer grip. Reverse hammer grip I get.

For the life of me, I can't figure out how to grip the knife so the blade wobbles.

I have the habit of almost never putting my thumb on the spine / ramp, but rather on the flat/side of the blade or using a hammer grip in the first place (just how I always did it and am used to)

When utilizing that kind of grip, in harder use there definitely are two backlock Spydies where the blade gets a bit "loose and rattly" (though not even close to unlocked!)

- First one is the Siren (yes, the cqi -ed, newer version!): Hammergrip or thumb on the flat of the blade, a bit more squeezing like one would do when cutting into hard wood: Blade gets loose enough to rattle when I shake the knife even just a bit.
In real use it is not really an issue though.
Now I always thought this appeared cause the Siren has no boye dent and even thought of adding one myself...

- ... Enter the Goddard: In overall shape pretty similar to the Siren, but HAS a boye dent...and: Same thing. With "my" grip and when held tight: Blade gets a bit loose and rattles

- NOT a thing at all though with both models if I put my thumb on the spine, even when really "squeezing"

- And NO issue it all with any other backlock Spydie I own(ed) (mostly Endura family ones and Stretches ("regular" and XL), but also Chap, Native, Chief....)

- As the examples of Siren (no dent) and Goddard (dent) show: It might not only be the dent (or lack thereof) but perhaps rather the overall construction that contributes to that "blade gets loose in tight hammer grip" - thing - ?!

Thanks for sharing this.
Interesting. So the dent doesn’t necessarily “solve” the rattle issue in all cases.


Side-note, it is also something that I’ve been acutely aware of during heavier cutting tasks. The feeling is quite eerie, if I may say. Not very confidence inspiring.

[Wartstein]

I have the habit of almost never putting my thumb on the spine / ramp, but rather on the flat/side of the blade or using a hammer grip in the first place (just how I always did it and am used to)

When utilizing that kind of grip, in harder use there definitely are two backlock Spydies where the blade gets a bit "loose and rattly" (though not even close to unlocked!)

- First one is the Siren (yes, the cqi -ed, newer version!): Hammergrip or thumb on the flat of the blade, a bit more squeezing like one would do when cutting into hard wood: Blade gets loose enough to rattle when I shake the knife even just a bit.
In real use it is not really an issue though.
Now I always thought this appeared cause the Siren has no boye dent and even thought of adding one myself...

- ... Enter the Goddard: In overall shape pretty similar to the Siren, but HAS a boye dent...and: Same thing. With "my" grip and when held tight: Blade gets a bit loose and rattles

- NOT a thing at all though with both models if I put my thumb on the spine, even when really "squeezing"

- And NO issue it all with any other backlock Spydie I own(ed) (mostly Endura family ones and Stretches ("regular" and XL), but also Chap, Native, Chief....)

- As the examples of Siren (no dent) and Goddard (dent) show: It might not only be the dent (or lack thereof) but perhaps rather the overall construction that contributes to that "blade gets loose in tight hammer grip" - thing - ?!

Thanks for sharing this.
Interesting. So the dent doesn’t necessarily “solve” the rattle issue in all cases.


Side-note, it is also something that I’ve been acutely aware of during heavier cutting tasks. The feeling is quite eerie, if I may say. Not very confidence inspiring.

The "rattle" was certainly a bit more pronounced in my Siren than my Goddard (can´t compare anymore, sold the Siren) - just like in your vid above! (I did not really notice it much in use, though it was certainly there)

No idea if this has something to do with the Goddard boye dent - so if the Goddard would rattle more without and the Siren less with one. I assume so though.

And again: For those (many) who put the thumb on the spine anyway this should not be an issue at all.

[Wartstein]

God almighty.
Would you ever give it a rest, you Gobshite.
Mark

Sounds angry...
Perhaps it aids in calming down if you consider that I was trying to help out RazorSharp and not talking to you

Hey, AND there is the foe - button!
Anyway, have a nice and peaceful day

[vivi]

I had two Sirens. Pre cqi and post cqi. They both did what yours in the video did.

for me it wasn't a problem. I never unlocked the knife that way, and I was conscious about it so I worked around it.

Every knife has its limitations. Can't do twisting, prying motions with a Military 1 without risk of accidentally unlocking it, lockbacks are more prone to vertical play than other locks, fixed blades don't carry as compact etc.

I'd try to learn to not let it bother you if the knife remains functional.

edit: for comparison sake here's a video on my sirens lock from my review

viewtopic.php?t=87480&hilit=siren+lock

[endura3]

I like knives with the boye dent because it helps with indexing the lockbar when you're wearing gloves.

I've also noticed a variety of lockbacks are more or less prone to rattle when you use them with a hammer grip. Moreso than the presence or absence of the dent alone, I think it also has to do with the geometry of the lockbar relative to where you concentrate your grip:



This image (poorly) shows the distance on each knife between the lockbar pivot point and the "furthest forward" you can grip the knife, excluding the choils on knives that have them. For the Siren up top for example, there's very little distance there. That means that the majority of the force you're applying to the back of the knife when cutting hard is going behind the lockbar pivot, so it's raising the lockbar ever so slightly and introducing some rattle.

I love the Siren, but again, the thing to note is that the lockbar pivot is really close to the furthest point forward you can hold the handle in a hammer grip. The N5 is similar, and I also notice a lot of rattle if I hold it in a hammer grip without using the choil, but I almost never use the knife in that grip.

The other factors seem to be (in order of impact):

1. The thickness of the blade/lockbar: Thicker blades, like the Siren, Native, and original Manix, seem more prone to this rattle with hammer grips. That makes sense, as the surface area to push down on is larger so it's easier for your hand to "bight" down onto the lockbar and introduce some play.

2. The distance between the lockbar cutout and the pivot/forward grip area: take the Atlantic and the D4 above for example. The D4's lockbar cutout is much further back, which might make you think it would be less prone to rattling. But this isn't a difference I've noticed in practice, as long as the knife has sufficient grip area forward of the lockbar pivot point.

3. Boye dent: I think this is most pertinent for knives with "round" backs where the lockbar is sitting at the "top" of the handle, like my beloved E3:



For the P4 in the top pic for example, the lack of a dent has never contributed to any wobble. In the D4 above, I don't think the lack of a dent would be an issue. But I previously owned an AT55 E3 without the boye dent and have noticed the newer version with the dent feels much less "rattly" in a hammer grip.

That's all to say I think it's overall a good thing in knives that have the lockbar travel/depression to allow it. I certainly love it for indexing the lockbar cutout. But I'm not sure it's the main thing that contributes to this hammer grip rattle outside of specific designs, and I think the geometry of the lockbar relative to the grip area is probably more important for most knives

[Wartstein]

I like knives with the boye dent because it helps with indexing the lockbar when you're wearing gloves.

I've also noticed a variety of lockbacks are more or less prone to rattle when you use them with a hammer grip. Moreso than the presence or absence of the dent alone, I think it also has to do with the geometry of the lockbar relative to where you concentrate your grip:



This image (poorly) shows the distance on each knife between the lockbar pivot point and the "furthest forward" you can grip the knife, excluding the choils on knives that have them. For the Siren up top for example, there's very little distance there. That means that the majority of the force you're applying to the back of the knife when cutting hard is going behind the lockbar pivot, so it's raising the lockbar ever so slightly and introducing some rattle.

I love the Siren, but again, the thing to note is that the lockbar pivot is really close to the furthest point forward you can hold the handle in a hammer grip. The N5 is similar, and I also notice a lot of rattle if I hold it in a hammer grip without using the choil, but I almost never use the knife in that grip.
...

That´s actually a great observation and would perfectly explain why the Goddard blade rattles in a hammer grip, while the Endura blade does not (both knives feature a boye dent).

Similar to your pic I marked the distances from lockbar pivot to "furthest forward where one will usually grip":

- Very short on the Goddard
- Pretty long on the Endura


server host gratis

[Wartstein]

@endura3
And, added to my post above:
Just tried to grab my Endura very far back on the handle in a hard hammer grip: And, voila: Rattle...
Really proves your point!