Why Did The Jumpers Fail?

[sal]

Thank you for all of the comments and suggestions. The test was to see if there was a large enough market to bother to continue with the "handle forward" concept. Putting in special steels, colors or anything else would have created more of a distraction and confusion to the analysis of the concept. All of the objections had little to do with the concept of using the "handle forward" concept. I will keep all of it in mind, if I decide to do something in the future with the concept. But we do have many things in the queue for you. We'' see if there are more comments in the future. Thanx much for the interest, support and comments. We have tooling for the handle and may, in the future, do something else. I'll discuss it here before moving on it.

sal

[Manifestgtr]

I had never given much thought to these models but with this thread and their imminent discontinuation, I decided to pick up a k390 leafjumper. Too little, too late for the model itself but hey…

[Wartstein]

I had never given much thought to these models but with this thread and their imminent discontinuation, I decided to pick up a k390 leafjumper. Too little, too late for the model itself but hey…

Sure you´ll really like it...
In my case in the end the Endela "won" just ever so slightly over the Leaf Jumper in that size category... and I really love the Endela, so that´s saying something!

[Manifestgtr]

Sure you´ll really like it...
In my case in the end the Endela "won" just ever so slightly over the Leaf Jumper in that size category... and I really love the Endela, so that´s saying something!

The Endela just has so much going for it, it’s tough to beat in that mid-sized back lock category. At the end of the day, I mostly like the variety…whatever I’m in the mood to carry as I’m about to head out the door. Sometimes it’s a Delica, sometimes it’s the viele phoenix lol

[adv23]

I have the RockJumper and a K390 LeafJumper, both serrated, I think they’re fantastic knives! If I had to pick anything….I do think I’d prefer them with the dent, but that’s minor, I can easily live without it.

My serrated K390 LJ is a top 3 knife for me!

+1 I have both

[2HB]

I liked the size and idea of the handle forward design and bought both the VG10 and K390 versions. I have not used either much, and have stayed with my K390 Endela as my beater EDC. I use a "pinch" grip for most cutting tasks, and the handle forward design really limits such a grip. If you use a pinch grip on the LeafJumper, you are right up on the "pointy" guard of the handle, which is uncomfortable. And unlike the Endela, which has a v-shaped "notch" between the handle and blade, you cannot get above the guard because your index finger is right on the sharpened blade. There is a little of that same limitation on bearing down to cut with a "hammer" grip as well. I don't feel like I can get my grip right at the edge for maximum leverage because of the pointy guard. Softening and flatting out the guard or angling it like the Stretch could perhaps alleviate this issue.

[sal]

Hi 2HB,

Welcome to our forum.

sal

[wrdwrght]

Thank you for all of the comments and suggestions. The test was to see if there was a large enough market to bother to continue with the "handle forward" concept. Putting in special steels, colors or anything else would have created more of a distraction and confusion to the analysis of the concept. All of the objections had little to do with the concept of using the "handle forward" concept. I will keep all of it in mind, if I decide to do something in the future with the concept. But we do have many things in the queue for you. We'' see if there are more comments in the future. Thanx much for the interest, support and comments. We have tooling for the handle and may, in the future, do something else. I'll discuss it here before moving on it.

sal

No Cliff Jumper or Sequoia, then? That would disappoint me, but given the understated Bodacious, I can hardly complain.

[Razzy]

I have the LJs in k390. I love the handle forward concept and the wider handle. It feels solid in hand, much more so than my Delica.

[soulspy]

I got a SE Rockjumper when they first came out. I used to rock climb and always had a SE small Rescue on me while climbing. So I wanted to check out the new design.

The Rockjumper seems a bit too heavy and the blade shape still a little pointy for slipping under webbing if you did have to make emergency extraction cuts in a rock climbing situation. I really like the handle though, as it fills the hand nicely.

Mine had rock lock right from the get go which was the biggest let down for me in the model. When it's open, there is noticeable slack in the lockup. It doesn't seem like that should still be an issue given the length of time Spyderco has made their lockbacks. I keep mine in the car because the lock bothers me enough to not want to actually carry it.

[Wartstein]

Thank you for all of the comments and suggestions. The test was to see if there was a large enough market to bother to continue with the "handle forward" concept. Putting in special steels, colors or anything else would have created more of a distraction and confusion to the analysis of the concept. All of the objections had little to do with the concept of using the "handle forward" concept. I will keep all of it in mind, if I decide to do something in the future with the concept. But we do have many things in the queue for you. We'' see if there are more comments in the future. Thanx much for the interest, support and comments. We have tooling for the handle and may, in the future, do something else. I'll discuss it here before moving on it.

sal

I really wish the backlock-handle-forward-concept does have a future! Something like a Leafjumper XL could absolutely become my personal perfect EDC!

I still think though that "the market" was not (made) aware enough and explicitly about that new handle forward concept and its potential advantages, so that this was not really a test of its (the markets) response.

When reading Spydercos own description of the Rockjumper (https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details/C254BK/1882) and Leafjumper (https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details/C262BK/2339) or as an example what KC says on their site (https://www.knifecenter.com/item/SP262S ... rn-handles), there is almost no real, direct, explicit input about the concept itself, let alone its potential advantages - which mainly would be
a) hand close to the edge without the need of a choil
b) still possible to safely close the knife like many seem to prefer with backlocks (let the (hidden or not) ricasso/choil drop on the forefinger)

I don´t think that many who are not really deeply into Spyderco (and/or on this forum) actually fully realized THAT there was a truly new concept they might want to try, but "just" saw another black FRN linered Seki Spydie with VG10 blade. Which, sadly (!), many seem to find not too exciting and intriguing anymore.

So I still believe it would perhaps have been a good thing to have some kind of vehicle serving to actually bring handle forward backlocks in peoples hands so that then in use they could have become fully aware of the concept and its advantages, since those might not be obvious at first glance for the general knife market.
And such a "vehicle" perhaps could have been announcing a completely new, exciting, a bit more outdoor/mountain focused Salt line knife, light, with no liners and a new (for Salts) color like orange.. and also a completely new backlock concept (handle forward).

Just my 2c, and I could be completely wrong of course.

[Razzy]

Well thought out Wartstein. Good points. I believe that if you want to succeed with disruption or a new concept, it's better to go for it in a big way. How about a major release of a HFC collection. Exciting new knives, a few classic knives revamped in sprint, some fresh colors and exciting steels. We"d be supporting the HFC, handle forward concept like kids after candy :)

[ugaarguy]

Thank you for all of the comments and suggestions. The test was to see if there was a large enough market to bother to continue with the "handle forward" concept. Putting in special steels, colors or anything else would have created more of a distraction and confusion to the analysis of the concept. All of the objections had little to do with the concept of using the "handle forward" concept. I will keep all of it in mind, if I decide to do something in the future with the concept. But we do have many things in the queue for you. We'' see if there are more comments in the future. Thanx much for the interest, support and comments. We have tooling for the handle and may, in the future, do something else. I'll discuss it here before moving on it.

sal

I think the reason is very simple: The handle forward concept with little to no ricasso is hard to close safely when done as a back lock. The Lil' Temperance has stayed in the lineup with it's compression. The Tenacious Walker liner locks have been huge sellers for you by all accounts. The Tenacious titanium R.I.L. has already spawned a premium version within a year of its release, despite all R.I.L.'s other than the Techno and SpydieChef getting cut from the lineup. The Bodacious seems to be well received.

I'd like to see the handle forward concept done with a CBBL. The CBBL has a similar self close and bias toward closure to a back lock, with the advantage of being able operate the lock without placing one's fingers in the blade's path of travel.

[jwbnyc]

There is zero problem getting the kick to land on the index finger with the RJ/LJ designs. Sal is very well aware, from what I’ve seen and experienced, of that particular problem. Even the Temperence 3 leaves just enough room to drop the blade onto a finger. Righties may not do this with compression locks. Lefties do it all the time. Not saying a CBBL would or would not have sold better, just that, that, was not an issue with the design.

[vivi]

Lockback design shouldn't be held back by people who refuse to adapt any more than the spydie hole should have been axed before it reached the market because everyone was used to nail nicks.



There's something like 5 different ways to close lockbacks other than dropping the blade on your index finger. I don't understand the fixation with one particular method.

[Wallach]

To be real, I didn't even know this model existed. I only found out about it because of this thread, really. Looking at it on KnifeCenter, it looks like a really cool design; I might have to grab a K390 one before they are gone, I guess. I have an Endela in K390 (the wharncliffe model they had on clearance here recently) and I really like it, but the handle feels a bit weird between the second and third fingers sometimes. This looks like it has a more Native 5 style handle, which is one of my favorite knives ever.

[Skywalker]

Lockback design shouldn't be held back by people who refuse to adapt any more than the spydie hole should have been axed before it reached the market because everyone was used to nail nicks.



There's something like 5 different ways to close lockbacks other than dropping the blade on your index finger. I don't understand the fixation with one particular method.

Just wanted to say I appreciate you posting the closing method vids/gifs to illustrate your point. I think the last time you posted a bunch all together I ran through all of them, just to try.

(Although, after experimenting, dropping the kick on my index finger is still my preferred method.)

Tried this one just now and even with my most broken-in Endura I don't have any lockback that free-swinging past half-closed. Is there any play in that Salt when locked?

[vivi]

Lockback design shouldn't be held back by people who refuse to adapt any more than the spydie hole should have been axed before it reached the market because everyone was used to nail nicks.



There's something like 5 different ways to close lockbacks other than dropping the blade on your index finger. I don't understand the fixation with one particular method.

Just wanted to say I appreciate you posting the closing method vids/gifs to illustrate your point. I think the last time you posted a bunch all together I ran through all of them, just to try.

(Although, after experimenting, dropping the kick on my index finger is still my preferred method.)

Tried this one just now and even with my most broken-in Endura I don't have any lockback that free-swinging past half-closed. Is there any play in that Salt when locked?

No side to side play. I keep my pivots just barely tight enough to prevent free swinging blades, on purpose.

https://streamff.co/v/c9a40d9b

much easier to do this with my old pinned pacifics with generous side to side play, but still possible for me to do with tight pivots, and even tri-ad locks.

[tzirconia]

I had never given much thought to these models but with this thread and their imminent discontinuation, I decided to pick up a k390 leafjumper. Too little, too late for the model itself but hey…

Also just ordered a K390 leafjumper. Love K390 and with the discount now is the chance to grab one before they're gone.

[Wallach]

Also just ordered a K390 leafjumper. Love K390 and with the discount now is the chance to grab one before they're gone.

Same here. I feel like it deserves a head-to-head with my Endela K390 wharnie. I'm most curious about the handle shape, because if it feels anything like a FRN Native it may wind up retiring the Endela for me. I am also pretty curious how a Sypderco with a thumb ramp but no jimping feels like in practice.