Why do so many refuse to ship outside USA?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Why do so many retailers refuse to ship Spyderco knives to customers outside the USA? Is it because of high shipping costs, fear that the package will be stolen, restrictive anti knife laws or what?

[Evil D]

Yes.

[ChrisinHove]

Customs/border authorities can be overzealous, customers can order items that are unlawful and obtain refunds when items get seized at a loss to the retailer, governments can impose ridiculous tax collection obligations on the retailer and/or delivery company ….

It’s unfortunate, but you can’t blame those retailers who decide it’s not worth the trouble. They’re not a public service.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Customs/border authorities can be overzealous, customers can order items that are unlawful and obtain refunds when items get seized at a loss to the retailer, governments can impose ridiculous tax collection obligations on the retailer and/or delivery company ….

It’s unfortunate, but you can’t blame those retailers who decide it’s not worth the trouble. They’re not a public service.

Great points. What alternatives do people have if they live outside the USA? Find a local retailer or a friend who can get the knife to them?

[benben]

Is it because of high shipping costs, fear that the package will be stolen, restrictive anti knife laws or what?

I just recently shipped a knife to apollo in Belgium, my first time ever shipping anything like that. The very short answer to your questions....yes! And everything ChrisinHove said is exactly spot on!

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Is it because of high shipping costs, fear that the package will be stolen, restrictive anti knife laws or what?

I just recently shipped a knife to apollo in Belgium, my first time ever shipping anything like that. The very short answer to your questions....yes! And everything ChrisinHove said is exactly spot on!

Do you think those are also why many Spyderco models cost alot more in places like Europe and Asia, because those retailers must take those costs into account?

[ChrisinHove]

The importers have to fund shipping, import duties, their profit, if there’s a retailer they need a profit, then sales tax get added on top of all that.

Often for a knife we can’t carry off our own property

[benben]

Is it because of high shipping costs, fear that the package will be stolen, restrictive anti knife laws or what?

I just recently shipped a knife to apollo in Belgium, my first time ever shipping anything like that. The very short answer to your questions....yes! And everything ChrisinHove said is exactly spot on!

Do you think those are also why many Spyderco models cost alot more in places like Europe and Asia, because those retailers must take those costs into account?

Sorry, I'm really not the one to correctly answer that question? But logically I'd have to guess the retailers would have more cost in them just simply by paying the shipping it cost to get them there from Golden, Japan, and Taichung. But does it actually cost more to ship them to Asia and Europe from Japan and/or Taichung Taiwan, no idea? And does a retailer in Europe have to pay the additional tax to receive their merchandise from customs like apollo did? I'd just about have to think so?

But again, this is way out of my element, I could be 100% wrong on all accounts! However shipping that knife to apollo was definitely a learning experience.

[Zipper]

What has already been said can certainly be the case. I can only respond from someone who imports knives to one country - a big island in the pacific.
Certain USA retailers are great to deal with and have little divisions set up specializing in exporting. Even then they have some countries on their ‘no-go’ lists. That’s understandable with fraud and in some cases corruption or unrest. Generally they are better than most at understanding what will get through and what won’t. I have a list of about 1/2 a dozen I regularly use. I don’t get the impression the dealers don’t want to export due to postage costs, after all they are not paying them (even on returns). Internationals don’t get free postage from any USA retailer over a certain purchase level.
Postage is high, however the price gouging our local authorized retailers do, makes buying from local sources even more prohibitive than the postage costs! Those local authorized dealer arrangements with some manufacturers can be frustrating (a popular multi-tool manufacturer is a good example). Frustrating because the commercial importer doesn’t import all products, or again jacks the prices up to a stupid level.
Weirdly enough, the best value I can get purchasing USA made/owned knives is from a European retailer - Lamina. Once over the ‘free postage’ threshold, it significantly brings the overall cost down. To the point where I really only buy from USA retailers like DLT, KnifeWorks, Knife Joker, Copper and Clad and so on for exclusives or limited runs. They have all been great to deal with.
One observation is, USA retailers who don’t export, is usually more about their choice. The extra work in international business is just not worth their while. The retailers I have corresponded with usually say they had a bad experience with customers, or dealing with warranty issues, or just not being worth their while venturing in to that market.

[JFR1]

I live in Canada and importing a knife can have its risks. Wasn't always this way, but the last decade has been more difficult with customs seizing knives when they don't fit the (open to interpretation) rules. I buy from Canadian retailers whenever possible, but I have had very good luck recently with a US reseller that I buy from on occassion. I typically only buy lockbacks and slipjoints, which really shouldn't be an issue anyway, but I've also had good luck with a liner lock making it across the border.
I can completely understand retailers not wanting to take the risk of a buyer being upset that the knife they purchased got confiscated, or the added hassle of a customs declaration form. Keep in mind, foreign markets are TINY compared to the US domestic market and probably not worth the extra hassle for a lot of retailers. I'm fortunate that Canadian retailers seem to carry pretty much everything I'm interested in. Just makes things easier all around.

[mikey177]

I once ordered an exclusive that was missent to Indonesia before reaching the Philippines. When I picked up the package from the post office, it was just an empty box.

I reached out to the retailer and they shipped me another knife and didn't charge me for it. Shipping internationally is definitely risky.

On the bright side, that experience has made me a loyal customer of said retailer, but now I route my orders through a cargo forwarder for added protection.

[TimButterfield]

I have not had a dealer ship outside of the US, but I have had many orders sent to a logistics company with a US address. Those knives were then shipped to me where I was at the time and I had to pay the import tax on those. But, one order was lost/stolen in transit and that cost was never reimbursed because the logistics company used a third-party shipper with no insurance. That only happened on one shipment, but there is always the risk of it happening again. Since the US address had already received it, there was nothing a dealer could have done. If the dealer was shipping it, it would likely be insured, but at some extra cost/risk. Also, the import duties may not be as easy to track to a personal address compared with the logistics company shipping, which can manage some of that for you.

As mentioned previously, a local dealer has to handle all of that themselves and add their profit to the prices. And, unlike US dealers, the quoted prices often include the taxes, which may be 20% on top of their costs + profit. If you can import it yourself, you would still need to pay the tax, but you wouldn't be taxed on their profit.

[Donut]

Personally, it takes me 5-10 minutes to mail a package to the continental US. The lines at the Post Office have been pretty long and they're going to get worse because of the holidays.

When I ship an international package, I have to wait in the 30 minute line and fill out that pretty long customs form. I would avoid it if I can.

[JoviAl]

I am eternally grateful for companies like Knife Centre and Lamnia that ship to Asia - they are usually cheaper than buying them locally (although there is the occasional notable exception) and provide excellent customer service. Hennie Haynes used to be fantastic value (tax deductible outside the EU) but now the UK post office no longer handles knife deliveries that boat has sailed.

[Doc Dan]

Besides the import duties fraud and scams are a really serious problem globally. There are many retailers that just won't even bother and the ones that do have a restricted list of places that they will ship to. There are some retailers in America that I have to call and tell them it's me before they will ship. We've had a long-standing relationship so they will unlock the restriction long enough to ship and then lock it back down again. It's sad that it's that way, but it is absolutely the truth and it's not just countries like Nigeria and Malaysia, though those top the list. There are many others that are running scams and there are actually some places that it is part of the culture to be that way.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Besides the import duties fraud and scams are a really serious problem globally. There are many retailers that just won't even bother and the ones that do have a restricted list of places that they will ship to. There are some retailers in America that I have to call and tell them it's me before they will ship. We've had a long-standing relationship so they will unlock the restriction long enough to ship and then lock it back down again. It's sad that it's that way, but it is absolutely the truth and it's not just countries like Nigeria and Malaysia, though those top the list. There are many others that are running scams and there are actually some places that it is part of the culture to be that way.

Doc, there are cultures that teach it is okay for them to steal like that??

[standy99]

A lot of people buy restricted knives in their country. These are seized at the border and the purchaser wants a refund.
Take Australia Butterfly knives, Daggers, All double sided knives and flick knives are illegal. Customs does not just return the knives for you…they seize them. You’re out of pocket for whatever they cost. (Obviously person didn’t get their knife and wants a refund which causes a headache for the seller.)

Most retailers don’t want to learn 200 countries knife laws so it common. And I don’t foul that stance.

Somewhere like Knifecenter is happy to ship to Australia and won’t allow me to order these above banned items.

[Doc Dan]

Besides the import duties fraud and scams are a really serious problem globally. There are many retailers that just won't even bother and the ones that do have a restricted list of places that they will ship to. There are some retailers in America that I have to call and tell them it's me before they will ship. We've had a long-standing relationship so they will unlock the restriction long enough to ship and then lock it back down again. It's sad that it's that way, but it is absolutely the truth and it's not just countries like Nigeria and Malaysia, though those top the list. There are many others that are running scams and there are actually some places that it is part of the culture to be that way.

Doc, there are cultures that teach it is okay for them to steal like that??

I'm not going to get into a discussion here because it would be inappropriate. Most Americans just don't realize what they deal with. There is even a religion that teaches that if you do something dishonest to a person that is not in your religion then it is actually counted as a good thing. So, yes, there are places that actually teach that it is the right thing to do to get over on somebody. And there are some cultures or subcultures that teach that also because they think it's good business. And some places I'm aware of the only time it's bad is if you get caught, and then it's bad only because you did get caught.

[apollo]

To answer the OP's question.
It happens because the world we humans created is to put it nicely a piece of crap.
You can probably melt spydercos servers if you reply and sum up the total amount of problems with buying from overseas.

I have only 2 knives that have come from the US that i either bought or recieved for myself. The first is a little custom fixed blade i got as a gift from Dan and the second is the old 154cm Manix from benben.
Both got here because off the efforts and care off these 2 amazing gentleman who i will be forever grateful to.

Besides those 2 examples i see no reason to even ever buy anything again from outside of europe. Because it is not worth it in the end if it all needs to go officially.
You will pay an unreasonable amount of taxes for an item that has a big chance of getting "lost or stolen" by our so called friends at the local customs office.

That said buying inside your customs zone is not always a fun thing either.
Depending on the foreign brand you buy an item from you get screwed in a total different way. But i am not going to open that can of worms today.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Thank you everyone for helping me understand this issue. Apollo you are so very right. Now I see it and I greatly respect the effort and patience you exercised in having to go through that. My next question related to this to you and others is this: based on this knowledge, how easy or difficult would it be for a knife enthusiast like us to start a special international knife shipping business (say a group of people or individual getting the business loans from small business association or crowd funding) that limits the size to standard shipping containers that can fit knives ( so its not a general purpose shipping company if that makes things easier) and ship knives only to retail customers worldwide? Will such a company still face all the red tape and bureacracy even if they tell those countries they will have their own employees watching over the package of knives from start to finish to prevent theft?