Reveal 15 - Live!

[weeping minora]

I have no interest in a an 8Cr13MoV Tenacious, but I would certainly love one with a titanium frame lock. If the blade from M4 Tenacious model can be swapped out for the 8Cr13MoV blade on the upcoming titanium model, I might just have to spend about $300 to frankenstein me up a monster of a Tenacious. I guess I could go with S35VN instead of the M4 and save, like, twenty bucks, but I'd happily pay that much more for M4.

I would’ve got this one if they had made the blade 14C28N. Been waiting to see what a Spyderco heat treat could do with that metal. Plus the CQI treatment would only improve it.

You know, I'd never thought about it because it's not a steel that I specifically seek out, but Spyderco doesn't have any models with 14C28N blade steel, do they? How very odd. That seems like just the sort of low-priced, solid performer-type steel Spyderco is so adept at getting the best out of. I definitely agree with you: I'd be interested to see what their processes did for 14C28N, and in that same vein, Nitro-V as well.

8Cr is sourced locally in China, whereas 14C would need to be imported, and would increase the cost. Compare the costs of the Tenacious in S35VN and M4.

While I do not doubt the data from CATRA testing, I find that in actual use there is very little noticeable difference in edge retention between Spyderco's superior 8Cr and the 14C28N found in budget knives from other companies. YMMV, but I'd rather take the superior geometry and ergos of the Spyderco Tenacious in 8Cr, at its price point, than an inferior knife with a steel that looks better on paper but may not actually perform better due to heat treatment.

I have a lot of 14C budget knives from China, and most perform just fine, but I'd choose the Tenacious in 8Cr over any of them.

I did buy an M4 Tenacious, and was happy to pay the premium for that steel.

I understand that the assumption is that Spyderco would presumably work their Voodoo on 14C as they have with 8Cr, but for me the bump would not be worth the price. I passed on the S35VN Tenacious.

Well said, CDEP. I read/hear time and time again that "14C is already in China!!", without folks realizing that 14C is in fact imported into China; that is if the maker is actually using 14C.

The power of perception is king when it comes to marketing, and ultimately sales, so I'd expect at some point 14C, or similar, will undoubtedly make presence within Spyderco's China produced knives, irregardless to the actual benefit of such a steel versus 8cr at a pricepoint. Folks have already shown their interest in buying expensive Chinese made knives. The S35VN and M4 Chinese produced Spydercos already approach or exceed expensive for most folks perceptions, yet I'd wager they still sell very well.

We could make this same discussion towards the Mule Team, or Sprint Runs in general, but it wouldn't sell more knives perceived as inferior, in limiting the market option. I always find at least minute differences amongst steels within the "same class" to entice an interest in exploring such differences. Whilst most of my personal pocket knife interest resides within the more maximal performance tuned steels, for those of interest in the more simple steels, I think it would be great that they too have options available, and I find no real better company to offer it than Spyderco. The perceived trade-off doesn't always have to be justified by the many, to make the juice worth the squeeze. We on this forum are but a pinch of salt when in comes to the overall understanding of what the market wants. From what I can tell, Spyderco just prefers to sink their efforts into their other factories, which seems to please us AFIs more often than the more budget minded users.

[benja-man]

Edge retention isn't where 14C28N has its theoretical strengths over 8Cr13MoV though.

[bandaidman]

Will Rex-121 be on any lefty friendly models in the future. ie Manix, stretch or native?

thanks!

[riclaw]

Guess what came in the mail today? Reveal 15! If the pictures aren't 1:1, they're pretty close.

[phaust]

I have no interest in a an 8Cr13MoV Tenacious, but I would certainly love one with a titanium frame lock. If the blade from M4 Tenacious model can be swapped out for the 8Cr13MoV blade on the upcoming titanium model, I might just have to spend about $300 to frankenstein me up a monster of a Tenacious. I guess I could go with S35VN instead of the M4 and save, like, twenty bucks, but I'd happily pay that much more for M4.

I would’ve got this one if they had made the blade 14C28N. Been waiting to see what a Spyderco heat treat could do with that metal. Plus the CQI treatment would only improve it.

You know, I'd never thought about it because it's not a steel that I specifically seek out, but Spyderco doesn't have any models with 14C28N blade steel, do they? How very odd. That seems like just the sort of low-priced, solid performer-type steel Spyderco is so adept at getting the best out of. I definitely agree with you: I'd be interested to see what their processes did for 14C28N, and in that same vein, Nitro-V as well.

8Cr is sourced locally in China, whereas 14C would need to be imported, and would increase the cost. Compare the costs of the Tenacious in S35VN and M4.

While I do not doubt the data from CATRA testing, I find that in actual use there is very little noticeable difference in edge retention between Spyderco's superior 8Cr and the 14C28N found in budget knives from other companies. YMMV, but I'd rather take the superior geometry and ergos of the Spyderco Tenacious in 8Cr, at its price point, than an inferior knife with a steel that looks better on paper but may not actually perform better due to heat treatment.

I have a lot of 14C budget knives from China, and most perform just fine, but I'd choose the Tenacious in 8Cr over any of them.

I did buy an M4 Tenacious, and was happy to pay the premium for that steel.

I understand that the assumption is that Spyderco would presumably work their Voodoo on 14C as they have with 8Cr, but for me the bump would not be worth the price. I passed on the S35VN Tenacious.

I'm not sure I buy it would come with a price increase. There's tons of it in country already and lots of well made folders at cheaper prices than the Tenacious coming out of China.

For me, 8cr is a good for nothing steel. It's not particularly bad, just it has no particular benefit. It rusts easy, working edge doesn't last, fine edge doesn't last. In contrast, 13c26/14c28n are very rust resistant, have very good toughness, and they punch above their belts in fine edge retention at low edge angles. I am with you I wouldn't take one over the other in working edge holding though. But at this point I'm my knife buying, I don't bother with anything in 8cr, but I will not hesitate to buy something in 14c or 13c where I like the design because they actually have some strong traits (even if working edge retention is bad).

It all depends what you're looking for out of your blade and edge I suppose