S30V, S45VN or S90V. Is one of these better?

[Brant]

Which model are you looking at?

It’s a para 3

[Steeltoez83]

Voted s45vn. I think it makes the most sense bcuz I haven't found some essential details. S30v breaks down into a great working edge with ceramic stones. I find the brown sharpmaker ceramic in my case benchstone is a bit too fine and the edge breaks down slightly faster than I prefer. I like a fine india (400) grit edge for my s30v pm2s and I alternate between a fine india and an 800 king neo for my s30v sages. The s45vn I've tested from spyderco in real world did fine with a 32 grit dressing stone and up to a spyderco fine rod/benchstone. I think s45vn is a chameleon steel that excels in any edge as long as its done correctly. My CRK was very soft in s45vn but spydercos version is way way better. Being able to use alumina based stones is also a bonus for s30v and s45vn. My recent s30v cut testing has a ceiling of 315 with my buck 110, however I haven't gotten around to running the s45vn testing just yet. If I know the model I might take s30v but bcuz I don't s45vn seems like a more obvious choice. I've used s90v alot and I like it. However I own an array of diamond stones to enjoy them. To make sure I get the most optimal edge retention by cutting and shaping the matrix and the harder carbides. S90v hovers around 400 from my cut testing. Realize the cut testing is start to finish. Real world usage depends on the daily workload the cutting tool faces. I do enjoy each steel for different reasons so I'd have to analyze the model to be more accurate.

[Steeltoez83]

Which model are you looking at?

It’s a para 3

I'd go s45vn. I prefer more pushcutting on my Para 3s. Plus I also voted for it.

[Traditional.Sharpening]

They are all brittle, so that is a moot point.

Please define brittle and tell us about your personal experience with S30V. I own a number of knives, fixed and folding, in S30V from Spyderco, Strider, and White River Knives, as well as from several custom knife makers and have used those knives for close on 20 years. None of them have shown any tendency to chip in normal use, except maybe the factory edge on my Nilakka, which did develop several easily fixed micro chips.

Nilakka had a very thin grind at the edge in comparison, most Spyderco edge's are extremely strong by cross-section (ie. thick) compared to what they could be for most uses. This is common in factory knives, not a complaint. I believe you are confusing geometry for actual steel properties.

[Pacu0420]

It depends what you're looking for in the steel. I prefer S90V for the edge retention

[Erich]

They are all brittle, so that is a moot point.

Please define brittle and tell us about your personal experience with S30V. I own a number of knives, fixed and folding, in S30V from Spyderco, Strider, and White River Knives, as well as from several custom knife makers and have used those knives for close on 20 years. None of them have shown any tendency to chip in normal use, except maybe the factory edge on my Nilakka, which did develop several easily fixed micro chips.

Brittle as in chipping under impact or pressure. I actually got a ZDP-189 Endura to chip by putting too much pressure on it when regrinding the edge angle on an India stone; a nice portion of the edge chipped out so loud that I heard the pop. Ironic because I was grinding out a chip on the edge it got from bumping into a car trunk lock while I was cutting something. S30V isn't that bad but it is not far behind. I had a Manix XL years ago that chipped out the edge after hacking the blade into a pine tree pretty hard to test the whole "tough use" idea; the edge was replete with chips and one of the screws on the handle backed out. That was of course severe and unreasonable abuse. It was the factory edge angle but not the factory edge. This is simply a reality of high carbide, high carbon steels. They are all inherently brittle and that doesn't really matter because these knives are for draw cutting, and in this respect they all effortlessly blow away the low carbide steels.

[prndltech]

Can’t go wrong with either here. No bad choice…

S90v is the chefs kiss though.

[dsvirsky]

I own a number of knives, fixed and folding, in S30V from Spyderco, Strider, and White River Knives, as well as from several custom knife makers and have used those knives for close on 20 years. None of them have shown any tendency to chip in normal use, except maybe the factory edge on my Nilakka, which did develop several easily fixed micro chips.

Nilakka had a very thin grind at the edge in comparison, most Spyderco edge's are extremely strong by cross-section (ie. thick) compared to what they could be for most uses. This is common in factory knives, not a complaint. I believe you are confusing geometry for actual steel properties.

No, simply pointing out that the only time it's happened to me was on a knife with a very thin grind and the factory edge. My personal experience is very much at odds with claims that S30V will chip if you look at it wrong, even on a knife that still has the factory grind.

[Traditional.Sharpening]

I own a number of knives, fixed and folding, in S30V from Spyderco, Strider, and White River Knives, as well as from several custom knife makers and have used those knives for close on 20 years. None of them have shown any tendency to chip in normal use, except maybe the factory edge on my Nilakka, which did develop several easily fixed micro chips.

Nilakka had a very thin grind at the edge in comparison, most Spyderco edge's are extremely strong by cross-section (ie. thick) compared to what they could be for most uses. This is common in factory knives, not a complaint. I believe you are confusing geometry for actual steel properties.

No, simply pointing out that the only time it's happened to me was on a knife with a very thin grind and the factory edge. My personal experience is very much at odds with claims that S30V will chip if you look at it wrong, even on a knife that still has the factory grind.

I don't believe that's been the argument. I don't believe it's wrong to call any of those steels brittle as that is by definition what they are as they have very low toughness if you are comparing them to all available steels. If you are doing something silly like comparing them to other even lower toughness steels then you may not consider them brittle. If you were to take these steels down to very acute and high polished edges then I would absolutely expect chipping as that is how they fail in general. The problem is the factory edges are always designed to prevent this by having extreme strength.

[dsvirsky]

Except most of us have neither the equipment nor the inclination to take these steels down to "very acute and highly polished edges." Whether they are brittle under those conditions is moot because 15 dps and a 320 grit edge serve our purposes quite nicely.

[Traditional.Sharpening]

Except most of us have neither the equipment nor the inclination to take these steels down to "very acute and highly polished edges." Whether they are brittle under those conditions is moot because 15 dps and a 320 grit edge serve our purposes quite nicely.

My point was not that you should take your knives to that point but simply that it would illustrate how brittle the steel actually is. What you are discussing is geometry when you talk about 15 DPS coarse finished edges. If you like that type of geometry then the steel works just fine and can be preferable to a less brittle steel with a lower carbide volume, etc.

Me personally, I have a hard time calling a pocket knife a 'knife' when it's at the factory geometry as it's setup closer to a cold chisel on the spectrum of edged tools. I see little value in edges that heavy unless you are giving serious impacts to the edge on the regular. Even the occasional staple cutting a box isn't likely to cause major damage at 10 DPS w/ 15 DPS micro.

To be clear, brittleness is still an actual attribute of the VAST majority of steels Spyderco uses in knives. Whether or not this is relevant to you directly makes little difference. This is a materials property that is a known quantity and can be treated as such. Saying my knife steel isn't brittle because it's never chipped... is simply an incorrect statement in many cases.

[Brant]

I Imagine I’ll have all steels at sometime in the future. Right now I’m looking at the best one to get next. It looks like S90V is really leading and I have my eye on a Light Weight with that. This will be my first LW P3 as well.

I appreciate all the feed back and the info on sharpening these steels. It has been helpful.

[JSumm]

Is the Para 3 Lightweight available in all those steels??

[Brant]

Is the Para 3 Lightweight available in all those steels??

Not that I’m aware of. Only the S90V was a LW, The S45V I found had G10 scales. I had to scour several sellers to find these.

[Ferruginous]

They are all brittle, so that is a moot point.

Please define brittle and tell us about your personal experience with S30V. I own a number of knives, fixed and folding, in S30V from Spyderco, Strider, and White River Knives, as well as from several custom knife makers and have used those knives for close on 20 years. None of them have shown any tendency to chip in normal use, except maybe the factory edge on my Nilakka, which did develop several easily fixed micro chips.

I used to think that S30V was easy to chip, but I was sharpening incorrectly and getting a burr.

Spydero and Strider have the best heat treated S30V I've used.

[JD Spydo]

All three of these selections are really decent and you really can't go wrong using any of them in an EDC folder. However my ultimate favorite pick would be S90V. I truly wish they would make a new Military 2 model in that steel. I think I would also like to have a Golden CO made Native model with S90V.

Now I've never yet used S90V in a full SE blade. And I would like to at some point. But that would probably be an EVIL D question for sure. From all I can gather he is now the Crowned King of full SE blades here on the Forum. Although I think it would be hard to beat and older 440V SE model made from the same company.

[Slash]

Edit: My bad for necro. Did a search and this came up. Didn't read through posts first...

GL, with whatever you choose.

Reply: WAY to vague....

Better and depends on your budget, intended use(blade design), etc...........

Sharpening equipment and sharpening abilities, etc.........

I can honestly say S30v for ease(less difficult) in sharpening would be at the top. ALL blade steels get dull. How much time do you have trying to bring it back is key.

[Wdr65]

Edit: My bad for necro. Did a search and this came up. Didn't read through posts first...

GL, with whatever you choose.

Reply: WAY to vague....

Better and depends on your budget, intended use(blade design), etc...........

Sharpening equipment and sharpening abilities, etc.........

I can honestly say S30v for ease(less difficult) in sharpening would be at the top. ALL blade steels get dull. How much time do you have trying to bring it back is key.

The correct reply on this forum is not how much time but how many spares do you have to take its place until you have the time to sharpen.

[aicolainen]

The correct reply on this forum is not how much time but how many spares do you have to take its place until you have the time to sharpen.

When you put it that way, I'd just as well sell off all my sharpening solutions.