Community Sharpening Journal

[kennbr34]

I have not yet needed to condition the shapton 5k stone. When it's time would you recommend using one of my diamond plates, or something else? I'm very inexperienced when it cokes to flsttening and conditioning stones that wear faster because I've been using diamond plates and Spyderco ceramics basicslly since I started sharpening seriously.

I know a lot of people who sharpen Japanese chef knives with waterstones and flatten any stone up to #2000 grit (Japanese scale) with a 140 grit (ANSI) diamond plate. It leaves grooves in the stone, but it still cuts fine even with the grooves. I can't say whether it would work better with a smoother finished surface, but I have heard people say that waterstones seem to cut more aggressively with a coarser surface finish. For grits above #2000, most people seem to like using a 320 grit instead of 140.

I actually use 600 grit Wet or Dry sandpaper on a glass plate to flatten my stones, a #1000 grit Cerax soaker, and a #2000 grit Naniwa splash and go. Once again, I'm not sure if there are better methods, it was just cheap and easy and seems to work alright for me, plus I admit the grooves left in my stones bugged me. I draw a grid across the stone then scrub my stone until the grid is gone and call it good.

I flatten my all my Shapton Kuromakus (120,2k,5k,8k) and my Naniwa Gouken 12k on the Atoma 140, but it does leave some pretty deep scratches. When it comes to polishing things, they don't seem to affect the polish you can get, because they seem to grind out as you're polishing. However, I use my 5k, 8k and 12k to sharpen my straight razors, and they do kind of a crummy job at that after having been flattened on the Atoma 140. However, I simply lap them against one another until their surfaces are nice and glassy before sharpening my straight razors, and that works great.

Just throwing it out there... I don't know if they have QC problems or if I got a counterfeit or something, but their 12k was noticeably coarser than their 8k. I even ordered a replacement, so I doubt I got two counterfeits in a row. But in any case, for the longest time I was chasing my tail wondering why I couldn't get a good edge off their 12k and why I was getting scratches in my near-perfect mirror bevel off the 8k. Switched to the Naniwa Gouken 12k and had better results right away. Love the 5k and 8k, but dunno what went wrong with that 12k. I have heard that Shapton Kuromaku stones are supposed to be color-coded for different steels they work best on, as in some work better on carbon steels, and some work better on stainless, etc. So I wonder if that might have been the difference.

[Traditional.Sharpening]

I have not yet needed to condition the shapton 5k stone. When it's time would you recommend using one of my diamond plates, or something else? I'm very inexperienced when it cokes to flsttening and conditioning stones that wear faster because I've been using diamond plates and Spyderco ceramics basicslly since I started sharpening seriously.

I know a lot of people who sharpen Japanese chef knives with waterstones and flatten any stone up to #2000 grit (Japanese scale) with a 140 grit (ANSI) diamond plate. It leaves grooves in the stone, but it still cuts fine even with the grooves. I can't say whether it would work better with a smoother finished surface, but I have heard people say that waterstones seem to cut more aggressively with a coarser surface finish. For grits above #2000, most people seem to like using a 320 grit instead of 140.

I actually use 600 grit Wet or Dry sandpaper on a glass plate to flatten my stones, a #1000 grit Cerax soaker, and a #2000 grit Naniwa splash and go. Once again, I'm not sure if there are better methods, it was just cheap and easy and seems to work alright for me, plus I admit the grooves left in my stones bugged me. I draw a grid across the stone then scrub my stone until the grid is gone and call it good.

I flatten my all my Shapton Kuromakus (120,2k,5k,8k) and my Naniwa Gouken 12k on the Atoma 140, but it does leave some pretty deep scratches. When it comes to polishing things, they don't seem to affect the polish you can get, because they seem to grind out as you're polishing. However, I use my 5k, 8k and 12k to sharpen my straight razors, and they do kind of a crummy job at that after having been flattened on the Atoma 140. However, I simply lap them against one another until their surfaces are nice and glassy before sharpening my straight razors, and that works great.

Just throwing it out there... I don't know if they have QC problems or if I got a counterfeit or something, but their 12k was noticeably coarser than their 8k. I even ordered a replacement, so I doubt I got two counterfeits in a row. But in any case, for the longest time I was chasing my tail wondering why I couldn't get a good edge off their 12k and why I was getting scratches in my near-perfect mirror bevel off the 8k. Switched to the Naniwa Gouken 12k and had better results right away. Love the 5k and 8k, but dunno what went wrong with that 12k. I have heard that Shapton Kuromaku stones are supposed to be color-coded for different steels they work best on, as in some work better on carbon steels, and some work better on stainless, etc. So I wonder if that might have been the difference.

Shapton does have a chart with a description of the types of knives/steels that are best suited to each stone they produce. It is located on the inside of the paper packaging slip that came wrapped around the stone holder when you bought it. I can share a picture here of what came with mine if you need to see it but you are correct. This is in general true of most any stone as the qualities of the stone can either be a good or poor fit to whatever steel and outcome you are pursuing.

Lapping the stones against one another is generally not an ideal solution as you will not ideally condition them this way. For instance, you would lap the 8k stone with something at least slightly more coarse than the 8K surface your are conditioning. If you go finer than 8k then what you are doing is actually glazing that stone and wearing the abrasive to cause more burnishing then cutting. This is why many stones (such as Suehiro) often come with a small nagura of suitable grit.

I'd say you are better off getting a second Atoma plate in the 400 or 600 grit, possibly even the 1200 for the very fine stones you have. This will tend to minimize the scratches that you see on the stone. In general, I'd say leaving the stones with the scratches would be preferable to lapping them off with another stone as you simply wear both stones in an undesirable way when you do this. You don't want smooth per se, you want the stone to cut at the actual grit level it's supposed to cut at.

[troutinCO]

Trip to my parents this weekend. Knew they had some knives to sharpen so brought my kit. I already have a few on the docket to sharpen. Then I saw my dads PM2 sitting around and I wanted to see what work it needed, last I saw it I knew I wanted to reprofile it since he still had the factory edge and it was dull then. Well it seems he has used it more since then....

[vivi]

here's something different. repairing a chipped robo-coupe blade with a dmt diafold.

[kennbr34]

Shapton does have a chart with a description of the types of knives/steels that are best suited to each stone they produce. It is located on the inside of the paper packaging slip that came wrapped around the stone holder when you bought it. I can share a picture here of what came with mine if you need to see it but you are correct. This is in general true of most any stone as the qualities of the stone can either be a good or poor fit to whatever steel and outcome you are pursuing.

That would be great if you could post a pic, I have long since lost the packaging inserts and it's hard to find a photo of it with Google.

[p_atrick]

here's something different. repairing a chipped robo-coupe blade with a dmt diafold.

How does a chipped robo-coupe blade affect performance from a culinary point of view? Like, I'm not sure it would be all that different when making something like a pesto. Or is this just about maintaining a tool?

[vivi]

here's something different. repairing a chipped robo-coupe blade with a dmt diafold.

How does a chipped robo-coupe blade affect performance from a culinary point of view? Like, I'm not sure it would be all that different when making something like a pesto. Or is this just about maintaining a tool?

Basically the same as a knife. Cuts instead of tears / bashes. It was completely dull so sauces like pesto would come out with big chunks of garlic that clog up squeeze bottles, rosemary wasn't getting chopped up in our chili oil, etc.

It works a lot better now. It's fun sharpening odd ball blades. I've done the blades to italian pasta machines too.

[benja-man]

Yesterday I managed to split my first hair, using modest 12C27 steel (think Opinel) sharpened on the fine grit side of a Spyderco Double Stuff pocket stone. I even think I developed good muscle memory for maintaining micro-convex edges.

I feel happy about my progress with freehand sharpening!

[Deadboxhero]

Yesterday I managed to split my first hair, using modest 12C27 steel (think Opinel) sharpened on the fine grit side of a Spyderco Double Stuff pocket stone. I even think I developed good muscle memory for maintaining micro-convex edges.

I feel happy about my progress with freehand sharpening!

Congrats man, Good job.
Keep it up.

[Cycletroll]

Yesterday I managed to split my first hair, using modest 12C27 steel (think Opinel) sharpened on the fine grit side of a Spyderco Double Stuff pocket stone. I even think I developed good muscle memory for maintaining micro-convex edges.

I feel happy about my progress with freehand sharpening!

Excellent!
Love the Doublestuff :)

[vivi]

Picked up a used Seal Pup Elite with a hilariously bad edge. Like, 3-4 bevels in spots yet still so dull I can slice my skin with no effect. For the price I don't mind, it'll be fun cleaning up the edge and making a sheath.

[benja-man]

Love the Doublestuff :)

Same. I own some diamond plates and bought a full set of Spyderco ceramic bench stones when they were announced to be discontinued, but the little double stuff is just so convenient to use in the evenings on the couch or wherever.

[Scandi Grind]

bought a full set of Spyderco ceramic bench stones when they were announced to be discontinued,

Wait, are these being discontinued?! That would be kind of a bummer.

[Ramonade]

Yesterday I managed to split my first hair, using modest 12C27 steel (think Opinel) sharpened on the fine grit side of a Spyderco Double Stuff pocket stone. I even think I developed good muscle memory for maintaining micro-convex edges.

I feel happy about my progress with freehand sharpening!

Congrats man ! Took me some time to be able to do that consistently ! my goal is now to cut a standing cigarette paper, I sometimes manage it, but rarely.

The satisfaction from free hand sharpening is worlds apart with using a fixed system. Too bad I have wrists and they naturally want to move, even if I block them !

[vivi]

bought a full set of Spyderco ceramic bench stones when they were announced to be discontinued,

Wait, are these being discontinued?! That would be kind of a bummer.

yes. they haven't announced replacements. they did put some new sharpening tools in the latest reveal but I don't recall anything around this size & material.

I've kept the fine version in my knife roll since I started carrying one to work. Got a back-up of that and the medium.

[barnaclesonaboat]

Baby's first microbevel.

I'm not new to using knives, but I am pretty new to being a whackadoodle nerd about them and carrying high-end steels and Spydercos. For all my lack of knife nerdom prior to March-ish of this year, I have absolutely been and continue to be a knife user for all matter of gardening, cooking, camping, making things all the time, wood carving. To this end, I have been an average traditional/freehand sharpener since I was a webelos scout with a toten'chit. But along with my knife nerdom leap earlier this year, a renaissance of sorts, I've gone a little hard down the rabbit hole of sharpening... but that's not to say that I am 1) good at it, or 2) an expert in any stretch, so please do field your constructive criticisms.

But here we are, a noob on one of the cooler threads in the forum in my opinion, so I'll quit with the background story...

I carry my S90V PM2 very often and use it routinely for light garden work and light forest/woods work in addition to the typical EDC stuff like packages, cutting up snacks, manually shredding documents because it's fun, and unnecessarily shaving forearm hair. I ran the so-so factory edge for about 3 weeks of routine use before getting sick of it and putting on a 15 degree mirror, one of my first mirror edges. I use a fixed-angle system with diamonds abrasives only and know how to recognize and weaken burrs, and that initial sharpening went:
Jende 120 plate for gross stock removal, apexed and made a horrendous burr at this step because I’m basically a grom.
Venev Orion 240 C100 to clean that up
Atoma 400 plate to set a clean-looking bevel
Jende 600 plate
Venev Orion 800 C100
Venev Orion 1500 C100
Gunny Juice 1um on leather

I loved it. Push cut my way through life and overall was just super impressed with the cutting performance improvement. But what’s this?! After just a week or two of routine use I found light glinting off the apex and rougher cutting when drawn through smooth/light materials. Still cut like crazy for all tasks, but I was disappointed. So, I did more research, learned about all sorts of potential explanations like:
1) Apexing on the lower stones is unnecessary and will almost certainly lead to microchipping/edge stability problems, particularly in a steel like S90V.
2) Not using a microbevel on hard/chippy steels, and then proceeding to use them relatively hard, can lead to edge degradation earlier in the ghost’s life.

Fair. So, I stroped my way to more mirror-like, but nary better cutting performance using Gunny Juice 3um on leather followed by 1um, and I’ve used it this way for ~4 months. Somewhere in there I dropped it into the sink and boogered the tip. The entrance of a CruCarta PM2 into my life in the middle of that period probably satiated my sharp-etite, but now that it rains all the time in Seattle I’m back to relying on the S90V and the edge had to go.
An aged mirror:

Clearly visible glint:

That boogered tip:

So, last night I set about coming up with a different edge for my beloved teal PM2. Same sharpening system, different parameters.

Reset the bevel to indicated 13 degrees per side and took it all the way to polished and sticky-sharp state:
Atoma 400 plate for the reprofile, no apex
Venev Orion 400 C100 to refine that a little further
Jende 600
Venev Orion 600 C100
Venev Orion 800 C100
Venev Orion 1500 C100
Gunny Juice 3um on leather
Gunny Juice 1um on leather

Then, I turned it up to 17 degrees per side for the microbevel (~4-6 alternating passes for each):
Venev Orion 800 C100
Venev Orion 1500 C100
Gunny Juice 3um on leather
Gunny Juice 1um on leather
Assorted views of the new edge:

This view registers glare on the microbevel:

And then there I was, with my first microbevel edge, super happy with the up-front sharpness (*won’t tree-top hairs, but shaves with minor effort against the skin). Slicer performance is notably improved with the 13 degree bevel. I’m going to use it for another few months and plan to report back with results that probably won’t surprise anyone. This is a 'journal', so I'm not expecting heavy responses, but I'm all ears for suggestions and testament. Onward!

[benja-man]

Yesterday I managed to split my first hair, using modest 12C27 steel (think Opinel) sharpened on the fine grit side of a Spyderco Double Stuff pocket stone. I even think I developed good muscle memory for maintaining micro-convex edges.

I feel happy about my progress with freehand sharpening!

Congrats man ! Took me some time to be able to do that consistently ! my goal is now to cut a standing cigarette paper, I sometimes manage it, but rarely.

The satisfaction from free hand sharpening is worlds apart with using a fixed system. Too bad I have wrists and they naturally want to move, even if I block them !

Quit smoking years ago but haven't gone bald yet, so hairs it is for me I keep receipt paper at hand when sharpening though to quickly gauge how clean my edge.

[vivi]

this hurt to look at



buddies SM before I showed him how to clean the rods.

if yours look like this you're leaving performance on the table.

[Bemo]

Thanks for the reminder Vivi, I needed it.

[TimButterfield]

Thanks, vivi. Something else for me to learn.