Mid-sized Native?

[Mushroom]

Their catalog is not immune to redundancy. The most recent discontinued list is proof of that.

This knife would require the use of resources and catalog space that I would rather see used for something less redundant.

In my opinion, “Because I want it” hardly seems convincing enough to justify the great expenses it would cost for Spyderco to develop this knife. I guess I just don’t have it in me to ask Spyderco to make this kind of investment, when I could make my own, exponentially smaller, investment to modify a Native Chief to achieve this request on my own.

That's the entire point of their enterprise, to deliver what people want. That not only justifies use of resources, it's the entire point of those resources. What else are they making knives for?

All I'm saying is that they are good at listening to their customers. If they decide there's enough of a demand, then a smaller crowd saying "I DON'T like that" isn't enough justification to prevent it from happening.

If they decide they want a larger catalog with more "redundancy" (a businessman would use the word "options") then that's up to them, not the "no" crowd.

Their business, their resources, their catalog... all that exists because of what the collective "we" likes. This message board, market research, social media, etc, determines what that catalog is and how resources are used. And I guarantee statistics will win that fight every day.

If the "we want" crowd isn't large enough to justify production and turn a profit, then it simply won't happen. It's not my call or yours. It's a decision that Spyderco may or may not make.

Anf if they do make that decision, it truly doesn't affect anyone that's not interested in such a model. They simply don't have to buy one.

In fact I'd go as far as to say they've yet to design a model that 100% of their market buys. That's just the nature of manufacturing and offering goods for sale.

I can tell where this is going.

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

[Wartstein]

Seems like the Native would be the "mid sized Native" ...Lil Native, Native, Native Chief.

Well, if you take the existing line up: Kind of, yes. Just cause it is in the "middle" there.

But just somewhat in the way (and I exaggerate a bit) as if there was only a Manbug, a Dfly and an Endura, the Dfly would be the "mid sized Endura"

It is just semantics though, anyway. Perhaps it would have been better if the OP called the thread "3.5" blade Native?", I don´t know.

/ Generally (not an reply to you, Rick!)

People who love and appreciate Sals great Native design just naturally discuss and dream of a version in the very popular 3.5" blade length category - only a good thing for Sypderco, only an appreciation of Sals ideas and designs, only what knife folks and people with real interest in Spydercos products do and what this forum is partly for.

No one is "demanding" anything, no one is complaining.

So far I just read that people who appreciate that great design that already works for so many dream of a variant in the perhaps most but at least very popular PM2, Stretch, Manix 2... size category.

Some perhaps just cause hey can´t carry a Chief legally but still want to go as large as possible, some perhaps cause a 3.5" Native would be a more convenient carry than a Chief, some perhaps cause it would have an a bit stronger tip just by geometry while still offering a lot of blade, some perhaps cause the Native 5 handle is just too short behind the choil...

If it is technically "mid sized" or not does not matter to me, really.

I think it is pretty clear that there are rough size categories most people agree on:

So most would put the Dfly and Lil Native in the same category, just as Delica, Native 5, Sage, Para 3, just as PM2, Manix, Endela, Stretch... and in THAT latter and obviously popular category, no matter if "mid sized" or not, is no Native.

[Tristan_david2001]

For the type of knife the native 5 is (edc utilitarian pocket knife) 3” blade is mid size for the category of knife it is.

No offense (!), but I am not sure I understand?

How is the Native as a platform more in a "utilitarian pocket knife category" than a Para 3 / PM2..or Delica/Endela...?

And why, especially for a UTILITARIAN knife that comparably small Native 5 is "midsized" objectively?
To me (subjectively!) the Native 5 is clearly too small and the blade (and the handle) too short for being best as a "utilitarian" knife.

No offense taken at all, I love good knife discussion. Utilitarian just means very well at functioning at its intended use, I’m not the biggest native platform fan but I’d have to admit the designs are very utilitarian and versatile cutting tools. I strongly believe the general purpose of a folding locking knife that’s meant to conceal inside your pocket is mostly is used to cut peoples oddball every day small cutting chores the most, actual “utility” types of cutting. That’s why knives labeled utility knives have short straight edged blades. But the pocket knife is meant to be more versatile than that. It’ll serve better at possibly saving your life, it can slice, it can whittle wood, it can slice your tomatoes etc. perhaps I’m not the best at articulating my point. Take it from sal, someone who Knows the philosophy of knives better than anybody here, I’ve seen him talk about it on this forum before that 3” blades have found to be the most versatile size and the “no more than necessary and no less than perfect” size for the majority of people who need a pocket knife to do what they need it to do. Doesn’t mean everyone will agree and that’s okay, but it does kinda irk me in a way when people try to claim mid sized knives are small when it’s really just small for their personal preferences which is another statement.

[TkoK83Spy]

You're a better man than I am Nick haha! But you're lumped into the grumpy old forumites he likes to toss around lately. So apparently what we say these days in this guys presence doesn't hold any water. At least this week his favorite knife is the Lil Native, so there's always that.

[ImHereForTheMilitary2]

You're a better man than I am Nick haha! But you're lumped into the grumpy old forumites he likes to toss around lately. So apparently what we say these days in this guys presence doesn't hold any water. At least this week his favorite knife is the Lil Native, so there's always that.

Man it's starting to smell like prep H in here

[ImHereForTheMilitary2]

Ah, it never gets old. The higher your post count goes, the more important you think you are, and that your feelings are somehow more important than facts

[Steeltoez83]

The lil Temperance fills the void between native 5 and shaman in my collection. Id put the leaf jumper in there too.

[Araignee]

There are posters who worry that Spyderco's lineup is/could become bloated. It's a legitimate concern. It's inefficient to maintain great number of SKUs which seldom sell ; both for the manufacturer's bottom line, and for the customers who are being drowned in potential choices.

On the other hand it's also perfectly legitimate to ask for further options, be it new models or variants of existing models (yeah I'm rooting for a Magnacut Chaparral, so what ?). If there's enough demand for these, manufacture them. If they sell well, keep them in the catalog. If they don't, cut the losses quickly.
And when it comes to variants (as opposed to new models requiring new moulds), the manufacturing risks vs sales rewards should remain acceptable.

Let us air our wishes, and let Sal and Eric decide what they want to try. The Market will eventually call the shots as to what it likes and what it doesn't.

[Naperville]

You're a better man than I am Nick haha! But you're lumped into the grumpy old forumites he likes to toss around lately. So apparently what we say these days in this guys presence doesn't hold any water. At least this week his favorite knife is the Lil Native, so there's always that.

Who in the heck are you other than a guy with a lot of forum posts and a few knives? The other day you attempted to insult me and called me a "random guy on the internet" when I was bringing facts. I've never treated you or anyone else here with disrespect and yet you and a few others here like to talk down to people like you are part owners of Spyderco Knives.

Knives are tools, they are what they are picked up and used for at the moment. Every one of us has a different explicit use case although there are broad categories that we may fit into. Your use for a knife may not match mine, and my use case is no less important than yours, but some of you guys act like you have $250,000 invested in Spyderco Knives and hold 10% of the stock.

Just stop already.

[Naperville]

Ah, it never gets old. The higher your post count goes, the more important you think you are, and that your feelings are somehow more important than facts

And the comment that I just made was not so much in support of you than it was to let that other forumite know he is a customer here like everyone else. You do not have more important or accurate insight than anyone else here on Spyderco operations. None of us are from Sal's family and we are looking in on operations, not OUT.

We like the knives that Spyderco makes for us. That is our unifying attribute, let's not lose sight of that.

[TkoK83Spy]

Naperville, my issue with your post was because 9/11 is a very sensitive subject for me, as my cousin going to war because of that drastically changed his life and our family forever. Something far more important than knives. Sorry to get off topic here everyone.

On this topic, all I've said is that I thought of the Native already as the "mid sized Native" being that it's between the Lil' Native and Native Chief. Though Gernot did explain quite well what his, and many other's interpretation of what a "mid sized Native" would be to them. So I'm not sure where you're going with the rest of that post.

[Naperville]

Naperville, my issue with your post was because 9/11 is a very sensitive subject for me, as my cousin going to war because of that drastically changed his life and our family forever. Something far more important than knives. Sorry to get off topic here everyone.

On this topic, all I've said is that I thought of the Native already as the "mid sized Native" being that it's between the Lil' Native and Native Chief. Though Gernot did explain quite well what his, and many other's interpretation of what a "mid sized Native" would be to them. So I'm not sure where you're going with the rest of that post.

I have no gripes with anyone. Once in a while I beg Sal for something unique but it is pretty rare.

I'm sorry that your family had a rough time based on the events of 9/11. The whole country is still reeling from the events. Bad times for everyone.

Let's get back to talking about knives. I know that you guys are no less passionate about knives than I am. I think that it shows.

Mid Sized Native Chiefs for everyone...just like Oprah said!

[kobold]

Sigh, where is the like button when you need it.. Reading the thread from the beginning, most noteworthy pros and cons were already laid out in marvelous, well thought out posts, no need to recycle the same arguments. I think if future contributors read the thread, before posting, that would reduce the noise to signal ratio. :whiteflag:

[wrdwrght]

For the Nth time: the Shaman is not a Native due to its compression lock, weight, blade geometry..

Sal has long considered the Shaman a Native (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=56697&p=800455&hilit=Shaman#p800455), or are you just being rhetorical?

But if Sal has somehow lost his mind, how then should we call Eric’s Lil’Natives that have a compression lock or no lock or a Wharncliffe blade?

I feel we’re getting twisted up in naming conventions and thereby lose sight of the uniqueness of actual designs, designs for which Sal or Eric and perhaps collaborators had both purposes and limitations in mind.

Why not just lobby for 3.5-inch humpless and mid-locked Spydie rather than defend some imagined idea.

There is nothing inherently Native or serial about the “Native series”. Or have I missed a Spydie that has a blade of flint that I might knap.

[kobold]

I think words matter. Now, I actually proposed the name Native Elder, but as long it looks like the one in the middle, it's fine:

[wrdwrght]

^^^But you said the Shaman is not a Native.

[kobold]

Yes, I want what I think what the Shaman should have been.

[wrdwrght]

OK. Illusions are part of life.

[kobold]

Please explain.

[cjk]

I think words matter. Now, I actually proposed the name Native Elder, but as long it looks like the one in the middle, it's fine:

Yes yes yes. This thing in the middle.