Rock Jumper comparison thread + general info

[Evil D]

For the record, while I'm ready to fight to the death over it being totally acceptable to want more edge, it hasn't and won't stop me from buying and using them. I'm anxiously awaiting the steel variants that Sal mentioned.

[elena86]

I would say just this : unless you have legal limitations, optimizing a ratio is allways a good thing. Why not ? I am talking cutting edge here, not blade lenght. Oh and yes, 3 mm of cutting edge DOES make a difference. Not allways but…

[Cl1ff]

I totally agree there’s no reason not to look at the ratios, but it’s not absolutely necessary for me either.
Basically what EvilD just said.

[dsvirsky]

For the record, I am in favor of placing as much blade/cutting edge in a handle as possible. But, I wonder how many have considered: assuming both blade height and the curve of the spine are deliberate design choices and not just, "how it turned out," you can't change the blade length without changing one of those two elements. Either you increase the blade height in order to maintain the curve of the spine or you maintain the blade height and flatten the curve of the spine.

Just something to think about. You may now resume the discussion.

[Evil D]

For the record, I am in favor of placing as much blade/cutting edge in a handle as possible. But, I wonder how many have considered: assuming both blade height and the curve of the spine are deliberate design choices and not just, "how it turned out," you can't change the blade length without changing one of those two elements. Either you increase the blade height in order to maintain the curve of the spine or you maintain the blade height and flatten the curve of the spine.

Just something to think about. You may now resume the discussion.

I imagine that it has something to do with the actual production, like they can get X number of blades cut from a sheet of steel and trying to push the length even 1/4 inch more would throw off that number and would either result in more scrap left over or would cut into profits or both. Steel costs money, it may be that they can physically do it but it would effect their margins. It may be a small amount per knife but over thousands of knives that 1/4 inch adds up to a lot of cost.

[kennethsime]

I know this knife is designed for other things, but I'm wondering about its use for outdoors/gardening vs. some others that have been suggested here. I have and love felcos and dozens of other great yard/garden/hiking tools, but there is a real advantage to having a sharp knife on hand for a quick random pruning, trim, etc.

It’s not my Rock Jumper, but I took my Tenacious LW with me on my bike ride this morning and it did fantastic as a pruning knife.



I rode some singletrack that I haven’t ridden since fall, and my were they overgrown. I stopped for a few minutes to trim several thumb-sized branches from a bush that was blocking the trail, and the work went very swiftly.

The handle-forward design is excellent for this particular task because you get so much power. The Rock Jumper would’ve been even better I think, with its more spacious, comfortable handle.

[sal]

Thanx Cl1ff.

You guys can be funny. The concept was to test the viability if the handle forward. I picked a good working size with no focus on laws. The design had a slightly longer blade. When the tooling was complete, the blade was shorter by a couple of mm. We discussed retooling and making the blade longer, but decided that the cost of retooling, and raising the price wasn't warranted in trying to see if the handle forward design was well received. It's interestins to note that it seems all discussions of the jumper models gets back to the missing 2mm.

I designed the Delica to have a 3" blade, but the handle was too shot for many hands so increased the length of the handle to fit more hands comfortably. It's one of our most popular models and the handle to blade ratio doesn't seem to bother, but a very few?

sal

[TomAiello]

It’s not my Rock Jumper, but I took my Tenacious LW with me on my bike ride this morning and it did fantastic as a pruning knife.

Where do you live?

That looks a lot like a place I used to ride near Vacaville.

[kennethsime]

It’s not my Rock Jumper, but I took my Tenacious LW with me on my bike ride this morning and it did fantastic as a pruning knife.

Where do you live?

That looks a lot like a place I used to ride near Vacaville.

Not too far from there! I have an uncle in Vacaville, actually.

Photo is from Wildcat Regional Park above Richmond. I live close enough to ride door-to-door, and am very grateful for it.

[JSumm]

You guys can be funny.

[Bemo]

Evil D, a back lock Autonomy is what you seek (in my best Yoda voice). Take a look; in fact I was really surprised to see the similarities between the Autonomy and the Leaf Jumper. No one discusses the Autonomy in this way. But seriously, compare the Autonomy, the Caribbean, and the leaf Jumper. Very similar.

[Evil D]

Evil D, a back lock Autonomy is what you seek (in my best Yoda voice). Take a look; in fact I was really surprised to see the similarities between the Autonomy and the Leaf Jumper. No one discusses the Autonomy in this way. But seriously, compare the Autonomy, the Caribbean, and the leaf Jumper. Very similar.

They'd have to work some magic to get some kind of ricasso in there that can fall onto your finger when closing, but I would definitely be interested. I think I've said that the Autonomy 2 is basically an automatic Caribbean. Overall the Autonomy 1 and 2 are probably my favorite Spyderco's.

[Sharp24/7]

Thanx Cl1ff.

You guys can be funny. The concept was to test the viability if the handle forward. I picked a good working size with no focus on laws. The design had a slightly longer blade. When the tooling was complete, the blade was shorter by a couple of mm. We discussed retooling and making the blade longer, but decided that the cost of retooling, and raising the price wasn't warranted in trying to see if the handle forward design was well received. It's interestins to note that it seems all discussions of the jumper models gets back to the missing 2mm.

I designed the Delica to have a 3" blade, but the handle was too shot for many hands so increased the length of the handle to fit more hands comfortably. It's one of our most popular models and the handle to blade ratio doesn't seem to bother, but a very few?

sal

I’m one of those people whose hands fit comfortably on the Delica’s handle. As far as I’m concerned it’s a **** near perfect model.

[Wartstein]

Ok, I’d like to ask, when do you notice a difference of 2mm cutting edge in your folder use?

Thank for the question, Nick! [Honestly, it is a perfect example for how (in my humble opinion) these things should be approached: If a discussed feature happens to not matter anyway to a person: Either just don´t pick up on it, OR discuss it in a constructive way, just like you did here!]

- First let me say:

Of course I am noticing/apprechiating "2 mm cutting edge difference" on a very "fine scale" level, cause it is just "my thing".
Hard to put it in English words, but as said it is just like others feel a difference between S30V and XHP, or G10 and FRN, or a just a bit finer or coarser edge,or a slightly lower or higher tip, while others, not as experienced or just not as much bothered by a certain aspect of folders can not.
Concerning each of these things one could probably say: "Does it really matter in normal folder use?" So for example "does it really matter if the blade is made from S30V or XHP for almost any knife user in almost any task"?
Still it is important to some.

- Practically speaking:

On a "fine scale level" 2mm more of edge

- let me do slightly more efficient cuts on cardboard for example. It is a bit less likely to run out of edge before I run out of material, I can do a bit more of a drawing motion instead of a pushing motion or don´t have to reposition the knife at some point and start at the heel of the blade again

- tend to stay sharp a bit longer and/or tend to be more likely to have sharp areas left when the blade starts to dull

- give me a bit more reach / more clearance for the hand when cutting on a surface (this is actually about blade- not really edge length, but they normally go hand in hand

- make it a bit easier to cut large diameter stuff, like a bread loaf or whatever

Now, to reiterate:

- Of course 2 mm don´t make a whole universe of a difference and can be felt only very slightly.

- One could quite easily "work around" the shorter edge of the RockJumper when it comes to tasks that would benefit from more edge

- BUT: If we´re starting to go there, large parts of this forum of knife enthusiasts would become obsolete, right?
Cause one could also easily work around if a knife is "just" in S30V and not S90V; Or is 20 grams heavier; Or has a high ride in the pocket. Or has a "higher" tip;.....

I just think different features matter to different people, and there is not necessarily one feature / one concern more worth than the other.

[Edited for deleting previous comments]
-

[Wartstein]

For the record, while I'm ready to fight to the death over it being totally acceptable to want more edge, it hasn't and won't stop me from buying and using them. I'm anxiously awaiting the steel variants that Sal mentioned.

Right!

The Rockjumper is great as a model and as a whole concept, not doubt, but it could be even greater just for those who were hoping for another Spydie with a lot of edge in a compact size (cause it was advertized as just being that).

It is really not very different to when people say: "The new model X is great, but for me it would be even greater when it came in Magnacut instead of S30V" -. cause steel choice matters to them, while I, honestly, would not really care if it is Magnacut or S30V.

[sal]

I'm not knocking your argument, I just didn't worry about that detail beyond the discussion we had after tooling was complete. I just think it's funny because I believe that "handles are for holding and blades are for cutting", and while sometimes getting the most efficiency out of a design is important, it just wasn't as important in this design.

I'll make sure to fill the handle of future "Handle forward" designs, just for you, assuming the concept flourishes. I appreciate your participation.

However, If, if I'm designing a model to meet a law, I might deviate from handle to blade ratio in the interest of control and comfort, like a scalpel.

sal

[Evil D]

The ratio is funny because on models that rely on a finger choil to get a full grip, like a Dragonfly or Native or Caly 3, the ratio never ever bothers me, not even little. It's only on knives that I can get a full grip on just the handle, for some reason those are the ones I want all the blade I can get in them. I get the same feeling with my Autonomy 2, I'd like the tip pushed as far towards the end of the handle as safely possible. It's one of the best things about the Autonomy 1.

[Wartstein]

I'm not knocking your argument, I just didn't worry about that detail beyond the discussion we had after tooling was complete. I just think it's funny because I believe that "handles are for holding and blades are for cutting", and while sometimes getting the most efficiency out of a design is important, it just wasn't as important in this design.

I'll make sure to fill the handle of future "Handle forward" designs, just for you, assuming the concept flourishes. I appreciate your participation.

However, If, if I'm designing a model to meet a law, I might deviate from handle to blade ratio in the interest of control and comfort, like a scalpel.

sal

Sal, I am not 100 % certain to whom excatly you´re referring to, but I assume to all those here who appreciate choices with a good handle to edge ratio.

I am certainly one of those - as said, really not at all with all Spydies (I love for example models like the Manix, despite they don´t have a ton of edge compared to the closed size)

So: Thanks much for your good will to create "handle filling handle forward" designs!!
Much appreciated and I am looking forward to those (and the icing on the cake would be SE versions... )

It actually would be a shame and really a surprise to me if this concept would NOT flourish.

[toomanyquestions]

Here's all that I have that I thought was comparable. Feel free to share yours here. ....I took two pics of each comparison, one lined up at the front end of the handle and one lined up at the beginning of the edge.

Thank you! I was nearing the fence regarding a RJ purchase (I saw it on sale again); but the pictures convinced me that I am interested in other spyderco blades (manix 2 LW, endura, stretch 2, new caly 3.5, etc) that would soon relegate the RJ to a distant corner of the collection.

[toomanyquestions]

Thanx Cl1ff.
You guys can be funny. The concept was to test the viability if the handle forward...I designed the Delica to have a 3" blade, but the handle was too shot for many hands so increased the length of the handle to fit more hands comfortably....

I understand the legal concerns of some, but I don't have to worry about them. I must agree: some of the opinions are amusing; I guess our hobbies (I include my own) often provide fruitful ground for our OCD tendencies (e.g. wood working, painting, various types of collecting, classic cars, pocket knives, etc).